Announcement

**Master Shake** · June 03, 2012, 08:28 AM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Originally posted by lektrode View Post

well THIS is GOOD news, for a REAL 'change we can believe in'
too bad fer mr brown tho, methinks he's toast - tho it was a hoot having him win ole teddy's seat - but for the good of The Rest of US, we need people like Liz in DC
(did i just type that? whoa... huh? a small-r guy from the Live Free or Die state even... ;)

cant get much at: http://bostonglobe.com/news/politics...FsL/story.html

a bit more over at ruperts: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...546716566.html

and nuthin yet over at bloomyville....

I don't follow MA politics closely, but what's the rap on Brown? He seems to be an independent type of pol.

vt · June 04, 2012, 01:33 PM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Brown is actually the best choice because he is more independent. Liz is still tied to the FIRE economy. Now how can that be: Liz, Pelosi,and other libs are tied to the RE (real estate) part of FIRE. Ever wonder why there are 1 million real estate agents, or why we pay the highest percentage of monthly earnings for real estate payments vs. Europe and Japan.

The GOP is the finance and insurance side. They all get rich to the exclusion to the middle class. Liz is also a socialist that wants to grow the government and debt bubble more.

We truly need an independent party that is fiscally conservative and socially moderate to replace the two FIRE parties that are leading us to destruction.

**dcarrigg** · June 04, 2012, 02:51 PM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Originally posted by Master Shake View Post

I don't follow MA politics closely, but what's the rap on Brown? He seems to be an independent type of pol.

You're pretty much on the money. He's not quite that old type of Yankee Republican either. It looks to me like it's a statistical dead heat.

I would be more enthused about Warren if she wasn't a blow-in from OK. I think a candidate who sounded and acted like they were from MA would have a much better shot against Brown. Every time I hear a hard "R" or "gosh" or "golly" I cringe. But not as bad as when I hear "golly gee." Somehow OK politeness coming from a MA politician comes off as remarkably condescending.

We expect a brash candidness culturally compared with much of the rest of the country. Using 1950's sitcom words sounds to the Bostonian ear like you're talking to the electorate as if they were school children.

I think maybe this paragraph from the NYT says it all:

Temperamentally, Warren presents as the opposite of certain bombastic and arguably chauvinistic members of Obama’s economic team. Katherine Porter, a former student who is now a bankruptcy-law professor at the University of California, Irvine, said that “a strong epithet for Elizabeth is ‘golly gee.’ ” Warren told me of an afternoon, about 10 years ago, when she picked up her office phone and was shocked to hear a man cursing on the other end. “I thought, Whew! My first obscene phone call!” Just before hanging up, Warren paused. The accent sounded familiar. She put the receiver back to her ear, waiting for the speaker to take a breath before asking, “Senator Kennedy?” It was indeed the man whose old seat she is now competing for, phoning from the Senate cloakroom to report that Democrats had unexpectedly won a fight over bankruptcy legislation. “He was so revved up!” Warren said.

Say what you will about Teddy, but he was part of the fiber of Mass. And he understood its people. He was one of them.

Brown is also one of them. He sounds and acts like he's from inside the 495 belt. I think it's part of why he has done so well, as a good chunk of the independent electorate isn't really writing research papers on candidate's positions. The other part of why he has done so well is that he does moderate to within the expectations of the MA electorate. He won't go out on a far-right limb where he knows it's easy to rile folks up and knock him down. I wouldn't count him out yet. I think this will be a very close one.

That being said, he's being financed by FIRE. She's not. She's actually receiving a remarkable number of individual donations. Law firms and universities are her big base. His biggest donors include Goldman and Liberty Mutual.

**lektrode** · June 04, 2012, 06:16 PM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

was wondren what took you so long to pipe-up on this one, Big Guy....
(as you know how much eye appreciate your POV)

Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post

You're pretty much on the money. He's not quite that old type of Yankee Republican either. It looks to me like it's a statistical dead heat.

....Somehow OK politeness coming from a MA politician comes off as remarkably condescending.

yeah, precisely - esp since a lot of the locals identify with if not directly mimic my pal Joe from eastie (he's not actually a pal, but i /we bostonians(fmr-ret) DO appreciate his style, clik at your own RISK ;)
not that the theatrics on beacon hill are all g-rated mind you, and she may take awhile to get used to it (tho i'm sure driving around town has already given her plenty to get used to)

We expect a brash candidness culturally compared with much of the rest of the country. Using 1950's sitcom words sounds to the Bostonian ear like you're talking to the electorate as if they were school children.

I think maybe this paragraph from the NYT says it all:

Say what you will about Teddy, but he was part of the fiber of Mass. And he understood its people. He was one of them.

well.. at least he (along with his cheering squad in the press, the backbay, parts of southie and cape cawd) thot so - but to guys like my ole man, the only thing he was, was a fellow descendant of the emerald isle, otherwise he certainly was NOT 'one of them'

Brown is also one of them. He sounds and acts like he's from inside the 495 belt. I think it's part of why he has done so well, as a good chunk of the independent electorate isn't really writing research papers on candidate's positions. The other part of why he has done so well is that he does moderate to within the expectations of the MA electorate. He won't go out on a far-right limb where he knows it's easy to rile folks up and knock him down. I wouldn't count him out yet. I think this will be a very close one.

That being said, he's being financed by FIRE. She's not. She's actually receiving a remarkable number of individual donations. Law firms and universities are her big base. His biggest donors include Goldman and Liberty Mutual.

as always dc, your obs are priceless (and doubly appreciated by yerz truly)
the thing i personally like about her IS the fact that she DOES write/author some very good research on the plight of the working class - so she at least has a clue about what The Rest of US are dealing with (that and the fact that she _used_ to be a repub, apparently til she went to hahvahd) - vs what the rest of the political class seems to be thinking (and WHAT WERE THEY THINKING since 2006, is The Real Question)

EJ · June 04, 2012, 06:31 PM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post

You're pretty much on the money. He's not quite that old type of Yankee Republican either. It looks to me like it's a statistical dead heat.

I would be more enthused about Warren if she wasn't a blow-in from OK. I think a candidate who sounded and acted like they were from MA would have a much better shot against Brown. Every time I hear a hard "R" or "gosh" or "golly" I cringe. But not as bad as when I hear "golly gee." Somehow OK politeness coming from a MA politician comes off as remarkably condescending.

We expect a brash candidness culturally compared with much of the rest of the country. Using 1950's sitcom words sounds to the Bostonian ear like you're talking to the electorate as if they were school children.

I think maybe this paragraph from the NYT says it all:

Say what you will about Teddy, but he was part of the fiber of Mass. And he understood its people. He was one of them.

Brown is also one of them. He sounds and acts like he's from inside the 495 belt. I think it's part of why he has done so well, as a good chunk of the independent electorate isn't really writing research papers on candidate's positions. The other part of why he has done so well is that he does moderate to within the expectations of the MA electorate. He won't go out on a far-right limb where he knows it's easy to rile folks up and knock him down. I wouldn't count him out yet. I think this will be a very close one.

That being said, he's being financed by FIRE. She's not. She's actually receiving a remarkable number of individual donations. Law firms and universities are her big base. His biggest donors include Goldman and Liberty Mutual.

I know Warren personally and like her. As readers know, I interviewer her several times before, during, and after the financial crisis.

She is pro-consumer, anti-FIRE Economy, and -- obviously -- a card carrying liberal. Unfortunately, she does not clearly distinguish in her mind between the crony capitalists of the FIRE Economy and capitalists in general. She may do so intellectually as Obama does, but in practice neither appears to have a clue what the entrepreneurs of the productive economy need most from government: less of it. Entrepreneurs also need a smaller FIRE Economy, one that doesn't siphon off profits with mandated health insurance for employees or other economic rents. A man who runs a small trucking company told me a month ago he now pays $10,000 per truck for "terrorism insurance." He said it means he runs 25 trucks instead of 30.

I've met Brown but I cannot say I know him. My sense of him from a single short conversation is that he is smart and earnest. He downplays his GOP affiliation and comes off as more libertarian than Republican. He's not fond of Obama's "No Health Insurance Company Left Behind" "healthcare plan." But his campaign is largely financed by FIRE interests and he has not gone on the record against the criminals behind the American Financial Crisis.

One day entrepreneurs will snap out of it, out of their left versus right daze, and realize just how much the government protected and subsidized insurance and banking industries are the problem. Until then we will have no candidates to vote for.

One day the nine to five worker will snap out of it and realize how much their quality of life depends on entrepreneurs. And I don't mean the kind that try to print a winning FIRE Economy lottery ticket ala the Facebook's Banana Republic Offering. Call it a BRPO versus an IPO.

Warren versus Brown is America distilled into a state senate race.

Once again we are faced with the choice: bit by a dog or bit by a cat.

Pick one.

**vinoveri** · June 04, 2012, 07:02 PM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Thank you, EJ.
I suppose each of us, according to our preconceived views, have had to deal with our idiosyncratic cognitive dissonances, painful as it's been, to come to this point of facing the no win scenario our political system presents us voters.
Do you view the national campaign similarly?

**lektrode** · June 04, 2012, 07:15 PM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Originally posted by EJ View Post

I know Warren personally and like her. As readers know, I interviewer her several times before, during, and after the financial crisis.

She is pro-consumer, anti-FIRE Economy, and -- obviously -- a card carrying liberal.

well... thats as good an endorsement as we can ever hope to get - that and we all have our faults - but that doesnt necessarily make her a bad grrrl, right... uhhh... i mean... correct?

Originally posted by EJ

Unfortunately, she does not clearly distinguish in her mind between the crony capitalists of the FIRE Economy and capitalists in general. She may do so intellectually as Obama does, but in practice neither appears to have a clue what the entrepreneurs of the productive economy need most from government: less of it. Entrepreneurs also need a smaller FIRE Economy, one that doesn't siphon off profits with mandated health insurance for employees or other economic rents.

+1
plus another .5 for the bernanks cut

Originally posted by EJ

A man who runs a small trucking company told me a month ago he now pays $10,000 per truck for "terrorism insurance." He said it means he runs 25 trucks instead of 30.

and its simply BREATHTAKING just how many in the political class, DONT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND the implications of this - george will put it rather nicely a couple weeks back (paraphrasing): when a buck gets spent on this, it cant be spent on that -- something that seems to fly right over the heads of most of em (on BOTH sides of the aisle) - we see this in a number of diff areas, where the pols seem think all they gotta do is 'raise the rates' of taxation, insurance premiums etc etc (never mind food, fuel, med care and housing/rents)

Originally posted by EJ

I've met Brown but I cannot say I know him. My sense of him from a single short conversation is that he is smart and earnest. He downplays his GOP affiliation and comes off as more libertarian than Republican. He's not fond of Obama's "No Health Insurance Company Left Behind" "healthcare plan." But his campaign is largely financed by FIRE interests and he has not gone on the record against the criminals behind the American Financial Crisis.

One day entrepreneurs will snap out of it, out of their left versus right daze, and realize just how much the government protected and subsidized insurance and banking industries are the problem. Until then we will have no candidates to vote for.

One day the nine to five worker will snap out of it and realize how much their quality of life depends on entrepreneurs. And I don't mean the kind that try to print a winning FIRE Economy lottery ticket ala the Facebook's Banana Republic Offering. Call it a BRPO versus an IPO.

Warren versus Brown is America distilled into a state senate rate.

Once again we are faced with the choice: bit by a dog or bit by a cat.

Pick one.

EXCELLENT obs, Mr J, as per usual
(tho i dont like to distract The Boss, had to comment, if for no other reason than you nail it on the head and I like direction, being the J6P that i am)

another interesting race happens 2morow over in the cheese/dairy state - IMHO one of The Most Important contests (face-offs) of the year - see my comments: http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...I-Got-It-Right

**lektrode** · June 04, 2012, 07:45 PM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Originally posted by vt View Post

Brown is actually the best choice because he is more independent. Liz is still tied to the FIRE economy. Now how can that be: Liz, Pelosi,and other libs are tied to the RE (real estate) part of FIRE. Ever wonder why there are 1 million real estate agents, or why we pay the highest percentage of monthly earnings for real estate payments vs. Europe and Japan.

The GOP is the finance and insurance side. (???) They all get rich to the exclusion to the middle class. Liz is also a socialist that wants to grow the government and debt bubble more.

We truly need an independent party that is fiscally conservative and socially moderate to replace the two FIRE parties that are leading us to destruction.

+1
interesting obs here vt - i'd like to say i'd vote for brown (even if i could vote in MA) in fact its a really difficult choice, for the reasons EJ states.

the biggest reason that a guy like me (independent, but center-right-leaning) IS the fact that she has specialized in documenting the perils of Life as The Rest of US know it and the fact that at least in the daze of her youth, she experienced what living away from the coasts is all about and used to be a repub (tho so wasnt leahy of VT, and look how he turned out ;) -- that she did most of her good works at that, The Bastion of High Liberalism is almost beside the point. (and would reach the conclusion that libs arent born, they are Created, in said bastions ;)

but eye hear ya on pgph 1 = why its so damn difficult (and why i'm torn about brown)
i suspect that the PTB have thot about all this and thats precisely why its difficult by design.

why methinks payin EJ 375bux/year is pocket change/chickin feed (and WISH that i'd been here in 2006!!!)

vt · June 05, 2012, 09:50 AM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/06...ground-begins/

The vetting of Elizabeth Warren�s academic background begins

Posted by William A. Jacobson Monday, June 4, 2012

I have alluded to issues certain writers have taken with Elizabeth Warren�s academic writings.

But never have I seen a more scathing critique of Warren than that published by highly regarded Rutgers Law Professor Philip Shuchman which was uncovered by Michael Patrick Leahy at Breitbart.com.

The article is posted here, and was published in the 1990-1991 edition of the Rutgers Law Review.

It is 60 pages of devastating analysis of a book Warren co-authored, As We Forgive Our Debtors: Bankruptcy and Consumer Credit in America. This is the money quote reprinted in Leahy�s article:

Most of their study replicates several earlier research publications. These are hardly mentioned. The writers make extravagant and false claims to originality and priority of research. There appear to be serious errors in their use of statistical bases which result in grossly mistaken functions and comparisons. Some of their conclusions cannot be obtained even from their flawed findings. The authors have made their raw data unavailable so that its accuracy cannot be independently checked. In my opinion, the authors have engaged in repeated instances of scientific misconduct. [emphasis added]

In those 60 pages, Professor Shuchman demonstrates time and again how Warren and her co-authors jumped to conclusions, proclaimed new findings which were not new, and most importantly, ignored or did not accurately reflect data.

This point, on page 240 of the Rutgers article, reflects a tendency which Warren has had throughout her career to reach conclusions which were politically charged and headline grabbing, but not supported by the data:

Burgeoning consumer credit and increased volatility, they say, are the two primary systemic factors that caused the �startling increases� in consumer bankruptcy in the 1980′s. But these increases are less than in other recent periods and are only about one-sixth more than the increases in business bankruptcies, which suggests that consumer credit is not the cause of the increase in personal bankruptcy filings. [footnotes omitted]

(added) Professor Shuchman went even further (at pp. 243-244), and suggested that the data was presented in such a way as to preclude verification:

This book contains so much exaggeration, so many questionable ploys, and so many incorrect statements, that it would be well to check the accuracy of their raw data, as old as it is. But the authors arranged matters so that they could not provide access to the computer printouts by case, with the corresponding bankruptcy court file numbers, thus preventing any independent check of the raw data in the files from which they took their information. [footnotes omitted]

Leahy has other information regarding Warren�s climb to the top.

In the coming weeks we will learn a lot more about Warren�s academic work, and how politically charged conclusions were not always supported by the numbers.

The vetting has just begun.

We will see if Warren�s academic claims hold up better than her claim to be Native American, minority, and a �women of color.�

**shiny!** · June 05, 2012, 10:20 AM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Originally posted by vt View Post

We truly need an independent party that is fiscally conservative and socially moderate to replace the two FIRE parties that are leading us to destruction.

We have one. It's called the Libertarian Party. They can't get traction because people are all convinced that voting their conscience is tantamount to throwing away their vote. That's the Republocrat meme. So people keep voting for the lesser of two evils and all we end up with is more evil.

**LazyBoy** · June 05, 2012, 10:50 AM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Originally posted by EJ View Post

in practice neither appears to have a clue what the entrepreneurs of the productive economy need most from government: less of it.

Originally posted by vt View Post

We truly need an independent party that is fiscally conservative and socially moderate to replace the two FIRE parties that are leading us to destruction.

Originally posted by shiny! View Post

We have one. It's called the Libertarian Party. They can't get traction because people are all convinced that voting their conscience is tantamount to throwing away their vote. That's the Republocrat meme. So people keep voting for the lesser of two evils and all we end up with is more evil.

"Fiscally conservative" is not specific enough. The bullhorn chant of "less regulation" works very well for the FIRE interests. FIRE gets less regulation, small business doesn't, so small business keeps the "less regulation" chant going. Rinse and repeat.

We need less regulation in the productive economy and more regulation (and enforcement) in the FIRE economy.

Has the Libertarian party said anything about the FIRE economy? Or just "less government"?

**metalman** · June 05, 2012, 11:04 AM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Originally posted by LazyBoy View Post

"Fiscally conservative" is not specific enough. The bullhorn chant of "less regulation" works very well for the FIRE interests. FIRE get less regulation, small business doesn't, so small business keeps the "less regulation" chant going. Rinse and repeat.

We need less regulation in the productive economy and more regulation (and enforcement) in the FIRE economy.

Has the Libertarian party said anything about the FIRE economy? Or just "less government"?

ding ding ding! we have a winner!

republicrat party = fire

fire ain't even in the public policy masterdebate.

abortion... gays... any & every topic under the sun but the one that matters... the economic rent machine... fire.

**Raz** · June 05, 2012, 02:01 PM

Re: ms warren Makes it in Mass

Originally posted by vt View Post

...

We truly need an independent party that is fiscally conservative and socially moderate to replace the two FIRE parties that are leading us to destruction.

+1.

Announcement

ms warren Makes it in Mass

ms warren Makes it in Mass

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment