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Another fine example of "good business": Town of 11 sells 4.9 million cans of beer annually

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  • #16
    Re: Another fine example of "good business": Town of 11 sells 4.9 million cans of beer annually

    in related news . . .





    In Tax Fight, Tribes Make, and Sell, Cigarettes

    By THOMAS KAPLAN

    ONEIDA, N.Y. — The trucks lumber past cornfields and dilapidated farm houses, pull up to a onetime bingo hall and unload their cargo: boxes of tobacco imported from the Carolinas.

    Inside, employees of the Oneida Indian Nation dump the shredded tobacco leaves into rolling machines and fashion them into cigarettes to be sold at a dozen tribal convenience stores midway between Syracuse and Utica.

    The cigarettes, branded with names like Niagara’s and Bishop, sell for as little as $39.95 for a 10-pack carton — much cheaper than those at non-Indian retailers — and bring in millions of dollars a year to the tribe, which also has a resort casino, five golf courses and a multimedia production house.

    “We tried poverty for 200 years,” the Oneidas’ leader, Ray Halbritter, said in an interview. “We decided to try something different.”

    The Oneidas’ cigarette manufacturing business is part of a new strategy that is quickly being embraced among New York’s eight federally recognized Indian tribes. After years of fighting a losing battle against the state over the taxation of name-brand cigarettes sold on reservations, many are now manufacturing their own cigarettes.

    The tribes argue that because they are sovereign nations, the cigarettes they make are exempt from the state’s $4.35-a-pack excise tax, the highest in the United States. But the tobacco industry and owners of other convenience stores say tribal cigarette manufacturing is just an elaborate form of tax evasion.

    The administration of Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, which pursued the legal fight to tax name-brand cigarettes sold on reservations, asserts that New York has the right to tax Indian-made cigarettes sold to non-Indians. But it has done little to test or enforce that claim, leaving the tribes, at least for the moment, free to sell their own cigarettes at cut-rate prices to any and all comers.

    Some tribes fear that the state could try to intercept trucks ferrying their cigarettes on state roads. The Cuomo administration has thus far opted not to do that, but the State Police and other law enforcement agencies have seized more than 60,000 cartons of Indian-made cigarettes discovered in trucks pulled over for traffic violations over the last eight months.

    A few Indian entrepreneurs have long manufactured their own brands. Smokin Joes, for example, have been produced on the Tuscarora reservation, near Niagara Falls, since 1994.

    But the practice is now spreading rapidly. Though the tribes do not release sales figures for their brands, industry experts believe there are now at least a dozen Indian cigarette manufacturers operating across upstate New York, more than in the other 49 states put together.

    A month before Mr. Cuomo took office, the Cayuga Nation paid $135,000 for a former scrap metal plant in the Finger Lakes region, and last year started producing Cayuga-brand cigarettes, which it offers at two Cayuga-owned stores and also sells to other Indian-owned retailers.

    And cigarette production is booming on the St. Regis Mohawk reservation in the North Country and at the Seneca Nation of Indians in western New York. There are four cigarette manufacturing enterprises on Seneca land, and around the tribe’s Cattaraugus territory, near Lake Erie, white placards advertising Buffalo, Gator and Senate cigarettes dot the roadside.

    The Onondaga Nation, with territory near Syracuse, is also considering establishing its own manufacturing operation.
    J. C. Seneca, a tribal councilor who started selling cigarettes out of a trailer two decades ago, began making his own cigarettes on Seneca land four years ago. His plant, behind a tobacco shop that serves also as a gas station and diner, is a modest operation: his production line requires about a dozen workers, and his equipment, imported secondhand from England and carefully maintained like a vintage car engine, dates to the 1980s.

    “I always believed that there was another day coming, and I wanted to be prepared,” Mr. Seneca said. “Now, Marlboro’s out, and we’re in.”

    The Oneidas jump-started their manufacturing efforts by buying a private cigarette maker — they paid $6.6 million in 2008 for Sovereign Tobacco, which had a plant in an old grocery store in Erie County. The tribe then moved the plant’s equipment to the former bingo hall, a nondescript metal warehouse down the street from the longhouse where the Oneida tribal council holds meetings.

    For the tribe, which has about 1,000 members, tobacco manufacturing is just one of several business ventures, including the Turning Stone resort and casino, which altogether employ more than 4,500 people in this part of the state. Unlike in some other Indian nations, the Oneida cigarette business is run by the tribe, not private entrepreneurs; the proceeds support programs like college scholarships, housing assistance and a health clinic.

    “It’s not what we wanted to do,” Mr. Halbritter, the tribe’s leader, said. “It’s all we could do.”

    Mr. Halbritter lamented that tobacco had come to symbolize the tensions over sovereignty. “It’s sort of a shame that it has to be cigarettes, which is very distasteful to us,” he said. “Yet at the same time, the principle is the same, if we were manufacturing whatever it was.”

    New York’s governors have for years tried, and failed, to collect taxes from tribes for cigarette sales. The sales are substantial; in the first six months of 2011, for example, the state’s Indian nations imported 9.6 million cartons of brand-name cigarettes, according to the State Department of Taxation and Finance.

    The issue was recast last year when the state won a court ruling allowing it to demand tax payments from the American wholesalers that were supplying cigarettes to tribes for resale. The tribes then stopped buying the name-brand cigarettes and resolved instead to stock the shelves of their convenience stores with their own cigarettes.

    “Premium-brand untaxed cigarette sales have virtually disappeared,” Edward Walsh, a tax department spokesman, said.

    The New York Association of Convenience Stores, which had urged Mr. Cuomo to collect taxes on name-brand cigarettes sold by tribes, is now pushing the governor to target Indian brands. “There remains an enormous tax-evasion problem to be addressed,” James Calvin, the association’s executive director, said.

    David Sutton, a spokesman for Altria, the parent company of the country’s largest cigarette maker, Philip Morris, said, “All cigarettes sold to non-Native American New Yorkers need to be tax-paid — regardless of who manufactures them — or New York State will continue to lose legitimate and significant tax revenue, and law-abiding retailers will continue to be impacted by cigarette tax evasion.”

    Howard B. Glaser, the director of state operations for Mr. Cuomo, said the state believed it had the right to collect taxes on the sale of Indian-made cigarettes to non-Indians. But Thomas H. Mattox, the state tax commissioner, said it was “much more efficient” for the tax department to focus enforcement efforts elsewhere.

    “It’s much easier mechanically to operate at the wholesale level than it would be to literally go store by store, or reservation by reservation, to collect that excise tax,” Mr. Mattox said. “We really have not talked about on-reservation activities.”

    The tax dispute has one clear beneficiary: budget-conscious smokers, who in many cases say they are compromising on convenience and the taste of their cigarettes.

    “They’re cheap,” said Danielle Silipo, a correctional officer from Rome, who was buying cigarettes the other day at one of the Oneidas’ SavOn gas station-convenience stores, which, with their green and yellow color scheme, are ubiquitous in this area. A sign on the door featured the logos of the tribe’s four brands, with the message, “Why pay more?”



    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/nyregion/indian-tribes-make-own-cigarettes-to-avoid-ny-tax.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Oneida Tribe&st=cse

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Another fine example of "good business": Town of 11 sells 4.9 million cans of beer annually

      Originally posted by Raz
      You didn't answer my question. ("IF ... would you then" ...).
      True enough. Were the beers purchased and consumed outside of the reservation, then as I've agreed to before, the letter of the law is being preserved.

      The spirit is a little more questionable, but in this case the precedent is well established: we don't enforce US alcohol minimum age in Mexico, neither then can the Oglala nation enforce a liquor ban for their sovereign entity in Nebraska.

      Originally posted by Raz
      It seems that the "principle employed" in the tobacco case comes perilously close to one of product liability. Now to use your term of "reasonable", why would the U.S. CONgress not demand that the Executive Branch force a company producing a "defective" product to remedy the defect in said product, or end production of the product entirely?

      Could it be (1) they like the ongoing stream of tax revenue, and (2) they remember the lovely side effects of Prohibition? Did the Tobacco Settlement really "settle" the cost to the States? If the defect in cigarettes isn't "cured", then is not the cost to the States ongoing? It seems to me that this entire Tobacco "Settlement" was just another case of Judicial Extortion by a corrupt, self-serving and gutless CONgress - and another way for a bunch of lawyers to get filthy rich. (G
      oogle: Dickie Scruggs.)

      "Smoking so much that you get Lung Cancer?" There's probably a dozen known carcinogens in tobacco smoke and the complaints about "second-hand smoke" are ongoing - witness the explosion of campaigns for "Smoke Free" restaurants, buildings - even municipalities. ANY amount of inhaled tobacco smoke is definitely harmful while moderate amounts of beer or wine are not only not harmful, but with red wine there are more than a few physicians who claim moderate consumption is actually beneficial.

      Show me that these lawyers have taken up the "Cause" pro bono and I'll drop one layer of my cynicism. But I still see far more responsibility among the Indians themselves than I do any retailers in Whiteclay.
      I should note that I've never said that I personally approve the tobacco settlement.

      From my view, the tobacco settlement is a consequence to the inability to enforce the spirit of the law.

      While I do not agree to the second hand smoke claims - I think cancer from second hand smoke does exist, but not unusually compared to second hand anything else except in unusually dense smoke situations - at the same time I haven't seen any evidence against the notion that direct smoking significantly and detectably increases the risk for lung cancer.

      The exact same ridiculous claims used in climate change were employed in second hand smoke - i.e. that if 1000x of something causes 100y of cancer, then 10x of something causes 1y of cancer. Biology doesn't work that way.

      As for your question on product liability - I agree that the spirit of the agreement effectively is the same as product liability, but the letter of the agreement is not.

      In exactly the same way as the banksters are doing now, the tobacco settlement channels all possible civil and criminal litigation under the settlement umbrella, and that umbrella isn't based on liability but on recovery of damages caused.

      As for your comments on lawyers and tort harvesting - again I don't disagree, but again this situation exists, in my opinion, precisely due to the lack of common sense and/or spirit of the law.

      When you don't have the ability to make a sensible judgement, the result is massive lawyering.

      Massive lawyering increases costs whether innocent or guilty.

      Massive lawyering costs make settlements far more expensive, and in turn permit the ability to make a living purely through legal shenanigans.

      Looking back at legal cases 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago, you would see a significant number of times where the judge just said to one or both of the lawyers: your interpretation is invalid and against the spirit of the law. Case dismissed or defense argument dismissed.

      In the UK today, both plaintiff's lawyer and defendant's lawyer both have the explicit fiduciary duty to discover the truth. In the US, the only fiduciary duty is to win.

      As for your opinion on who is to blame, perhaps a better question is:

      Do you consider the vendors of alcohol in Whiteclay completely blameless?

      I'd agree that the beer makers aren't to blame, but I do not agree that the Whiteclay vendors are the same. The numbers posted above show an obvious massive discrepancy - unless there were several universities of 20000 students nearby.

      Be that as it may, the legal system we have today offers certain options due to its present structure and practiec, and there is no reason the Oglala can't make use of these options.

      That too is the "letter of the law" today.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Another fine example of "good business": Town of 11 sells 4.9 million cans of beer annually


        Originally posted by c1ue View Post
        ...As for your question on product liability - I agree that the spirit of the agreement effectively is the same as product liability, but the letter of the agreement is not.

        In exactly the same way as the banksters are doing now, the tobacco settlement channels all possible civil and criminal litigation under the settlement umbrella, and that umbrella isn't based on liability but on recovery of damages caused.

        In the UK today, both plaintiff's lawyer and defendant's lawyer both have the explicit fiduciary duty to discover the truth. In the US, the only fiduciary duty is to win.


        I need enlightenment: how does one cause damages and not be liable?

        But I strongly agree with the UK system - and it's desperately needed here. Our adversarial system produces far worse excess than does theirs.
        (Some arrangement can be made with the Bar (those altruistic, self-sacrificing squires) to make sure the "poor" aren't shut out of righteous litigation.)



        Last edited by Raz; February 24, 2012, 02:58 PM. Reason: needed clarification

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Another fine example of "good business": Town of 11 sells 4.9 million cans of beer annually

          Originally posted by Raz
          I need enlightenment: how does one cause damages and not be liable?
          My friend, just examine any of the agreements between various banksters/bankster entities and the SEC, where no guilt or liability is proclaimed but damages are paid.

          You're trying to apply common sense to the letter of the law again

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Another fine example of "good business": Town of 11 sells 4.9 million cans of beer annually

            Perhaps too, someone should sue Indian casinos for the problems caused by gambling addictions?
            Greg

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Another fine example of "good business": Town of 11 sells 4.9 million cans of beer annually

              Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise View Post
              Perhaps too, someone should sue Indian casinos for the problems caused by gambling addictions?
              or the medical problems that all the cheap cigarettes that are sold there cause?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Another fine example of "good business": Town of 11 sells 4.9 million cans of beer annually

                Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise
                Perhaps too, someone should sue Indian casinos for the problems caused by gambling addictions?
                I agree, that's the problem with the legal system we have now. A bad precedent can go on forever.

                Although it would be a lot harder to link state-related costs to gambling addiction...

                Originally posted by jiimbergin
                or the medical problems that all the cheap cigarettes that are sold there cause?
                This is an interesting point: do the Indian reservation made cigarettes get covered by the tobacco agreement?

                I've always thought that, actuarially speaking, smoking induced lung cancer actually saved the state money. Dying earlier = less social security, medicare, etc.

                Or to put it more bluntly, lung cancer lets most people live long enough to pay in all their FICA contributions, but not long enough to collect on them.

                http://www.ahrq.gov/research/ria19/expendria.htm

                The average health care expense in 2002 was $11,089 per year for elderly people but only $3,352 per year for working-age people (ages 19-64).5
                Half of the population spends little or nothing on health care, while 5 percent of the population spends almost half of the total amount.2 In 2002, the 5 percent of the U.S. community (civilian noninstitutionalized) population that spent the most on health care accounted for 49 percent of overall U.S. health care spending (Chart 1, 40 KB). Among this group, annual medical expenses (exclusive of health insurance premiums) equaled or exceeded $11,487 per person.

                In contrast, the 50 percent of the population with the lowest expenses accounted for only 3 percent of overall U.S. medical spending, with annual medical spending below $664 per person. Thus, those in the top 5 percent spent, on average, more than 17 times as much per person as those in the bottom 50 percent of spenders.2

                Comment

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