Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

[cjppjc]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

Maybe I'm wrong, but the MSM for all it's flaws is always doing stories about mass store closings, and layoffs. People sometimes complain the MSM is too negative. Sometimes we see things through our own prism.

[Jill Nephew]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

Not to be a hard ass or state the obvious (ok i am stating the obvious), butt, you know if everyone did this, there would be no reason to have stores any more. No reason to have personalized attention, direct human interaction, experts in an area that can help us with our purchase that live in the same town they work in, and small scale entrepreneurs (like i would love to be some day). We would all work for 'the man' (like i try desperately to avoid and keep getting swallowed back up in). Voting with my dollar (which is NOT the best deal) is the way i create the world i want to live in and it feels good to pay the rent on a business i like. I like stores that can employ people that love what they sell. And i love having a downtown to go to. So i pay for it.

What you're saying is not unique regarding dissatisfaction. Online sales do have high rates of returns (although I think clothing in general has a high rate of returns).

Nonetheless:

http://www.permuto.com/media/uploads...E-SALES-R4.png

Chart is from 2010. For Clothing:

In Store: 7.0B
E Commerce: 13.6B

[Jill Nephew]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

That's weird. That pasted in the wrong post. I *think* there is a bug. I was responding to the comment about having enough time to shop in stores and buy online...

[DSpencer]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

Not to be a hard ass or state the obvious (ok i am stating the obvious), butt, you know if everyone did this, there would be no reason to have stores any more. No reason to have personalized attention, direct human interaction, experts in an area that can help us with our purchase that live in the same town they work in, and small scale entrepreneurs (like i would love to be some day). We would all work for 'the man' (like i try desperately to avoid and keep getting swallowed back up in). Voting with my dollar (which is NOT the best deal) is the way i create the world i want to live in and it feels good to pay the rent on a business i like. I like stores that can employ people that love what they sell. And i love having a downtown to go to. So i pay for it.

It will be interesting (maybe depressing) to see how this situation evolves. The brick and mortar stores will likely need to provide a greater level of service than they already do in order to compete with the low prices of online stores. Maybe going to a physical store in the future will be something only for the rich?

One issue for me is that even if I go to a physical store, I rarely get the customer service I hope to receive. There are exceptions and I will certainly pay extra for a genuinely helpful human interaction, but I won't pay more to talk to impolite idiots.

Maybe being relatively young I lack perspective. Was there really a time full of friendly, knowledgeable shopkeepers or is that simply a Good Ole Days Fantasy?

[Mega]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

More
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...iness-16350067
Lots of Major UK retailers are about to go Pop.......
YYYEEESSS

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

Maybe being relatively young I lack perspective. Was there really a time full of friendly, knowledgeable shopkeepers or is that simply a Good Ole Days Fantasy?

Early 80's Farmer's Hardware was still downtown across from my bank. Everyone in there knew their stuff, saving you money and extra trips to the store. At the counter was a stack of "counter checks," so that if you didn't have enough cash and had left your checkbook at home, you could just fill in your bank info on a generic piece of paper and walk away with the merchandize.

[shiny!]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

It will be interesting (maybe depressing) to see how this situation evolves. The brick and mortar stores will likely need to provide a greater level of service than they already do in order to compete with the low prices of online stores. Maybe going to a physical store in the future will be something only for the rich?

One issue for me is that even if I go to a physical store, I rarely get the customer service I hope to receive. There are exceptions and I will certainly pay extra for a genuinely helpful human interaction, but I won't pay more to talk to impolite idiots.

Maybe being relatively young I lack perspective. Was there really a time full of friendly, knowledgeable shopkeepers or is that simply a Good Ole Days Fantasy?

It is not a fantasy... there really used to be such a thing as good service. According to an orthodox Jew I know, people use a brick-and-mortor stores' resources to find out what they want, knowing that they will purchase the items online, are essentially stealing. I agree with him.

There's a specialty shoe store in town I like to go to. They carry Birkenstocks, Ecco, other high-end brands. Their shoes are more expensive than the same ones online, but they are fantastic about taking all the time in the world to make sure the shoes fit properly. It would be immoral, IMO, for me to go there, take up their time to find the right shoe, the right fit, then leave and order it online. If enough people do that they will go out of business.

People used to do that to me with my online store... I was one of the only e-commerce stores selling natural perfumes that made inexpensive samples available. I did this to prevent returns. The samples took a huge amount of my time to make and I didn't make much profit on them. People would order nothing but samples- some orders took an hour to fulfill. Then they would order the ones they liked in volume from my wholesaler who did not sell samples. I actually saw a post on a perfume message board telling people how to do this. I finally got so tired of working for nothing that I closed the business last year.

[Jill Nephew]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

My anecdotal experience is that here in the SF bay area, when the dot com thing took off and there was lots of money around, service went to hell. You couldn't get any good service anywhere. I really get the impression now (especially with yelp) that small businesses around here are realizing that service is their competitive advantage.

[charliebrown]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

JN has a point, but so do you. Most retail stores I go to are staffed by idiots. People who don't really like their jobs, and have little knowledge about the actual product other than what is printed on the label or in the glosssy broucure. So yes if I did get knowledge and personal attention, I would fork out the extra bucks for retail, but more times than not I do not get what I pay for.

There are exceptions, I bought a top for my wife at a boutique store last week, and was fawned upon by two sales clerks. Very helpful, but this is the exception. I do remember 30 years ago, going into a men's store and getting really good service. Maybe this is part of the downard spiral that price puts on retail. They have to compete on price, and ergo cannot hire enough or talented enough sales people. Today with a family I can no longer afford to treat myself to such luxuries and do most of my clothes shopping at target and kohls


Another thorn in retail's side is the sales tax. Around here it has been progressively raised from 5% to 8.75% over the last decade. Imagine the state thinks it has a right to charge me 8.75% for the privledge of buying something. Even necessities like clothing, office supplies, nails etc. And the state has decided that some foods are not healthy and should be taxed at 8.75% too. Like pure apple juice. Things that even J6P needs to survive are taxed like that.

[cjppjc]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

While I'm not defending poor customer service. How many here would be cheery and bright working for around minimum wage? Getting beaten up by the corporate policies. Some of these folks had to work all kinds of wierd hours during the holidays. When you hire people for such little money in order to keep prices low, this is probably what you get.

[DSpencer]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

Early 80's Farmer's Hardware was still downtown across from my bank. Everyone in there knew their stuff, saving you money and extra trips to the store. At the counter was a stack of "counter checks," so that if you didn't have enough cash and had left your checkbook at home, you could just fill in your bank info on a generic piece of paper and walk away with the merchandize.

I can't even imagine how much fraud would be committed if that kind of trusting policy were in place today.

How did it even work back then? It's not like criminals didn't exist. Was crime that much rarer?

According to an orthodox Jew I know, people use a brick-and-mortor stores' resources to find out what they want, knowing that they will purchase the items online, are essentially stealing.

That is a pretty extreme stance. I can certainly see the argument that it's taking advantage of someone and might be immoral in a sense, but stealing? What are you stealing? Their time? What if you try something on and don't buy it at all? Is that stealing too?

[shiny!]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

That is a pretty extreme stance. I can certainly see the argument that it's taking advantage of someone and might be immoral in a sense, but stealing? What are you stealing? Their time? What if you try something on and don't buy it at all? Is that stealing too?

A brick-and-morter store has to charge more than an online store because they have a lot of overhead expenses that an online store or drop shipper doesn't have: Rent, utilities, inventory, staff salaries, licenses, insurance... When I went to that shoe store I mentioned, I spent over an hour trying on shoes. The very knowlegeable clerk took time to measure my foot, brought out almost a dozen pairs of shoes for me to try on, and patiently sat and waited while I tried them all on and walked around in them. He gave me his undivided attention. That absolutely cost the store money.

If I went in there and used their staff, their selection and their time- knowing that my real intention was to later purchase the shoes online for $20 less, then yes, IMO that's a form of stealing. What else do you call taking their resources with no intention of giving them anything back? Those resources cost them money.

Some might call it "smart shopping". But if enough "smart shoppers" put stores like that out of business, where then will I get that kind of service? The store is not just selling shoes, it's also selling service. Good service is a valuable commodity. In my view it is stealing to exploit someone's service if you have no intention of paying for it. It's stealing their time, costing them money.

If I didn't find any shoes that worked I would have left without making a purchase. That wouldn't be stealing; that would only be unfortunate for both me and the seller.

(BTW, I'm not normally so picky about shoes, but I recently developed plantar fasciitis and it's opened me up to a whole new world of pain. Birkenstocks rule!)

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Xmas rush that NEVER was...............

One thing that surprises westerners when they move to Asia is that all the people rebuilding motors or making brooms or selling fabric are located on the same street.

My wife and I moved to Chiang Mai two years ago giving up all the relations we had with local businesses. You don’t know what you got til it’s gone!

Our landlord up here took me to buy two new tires for my truck. On the way there we passed six or seven big tire places. Going home I asked her how much more I would have paid for the tires if I had walked in off the street. About 6 dollars a piece, almost nothing. It is the loyalty/promise of future business that guarantees service above and beyond.

Got rear ended by a bus three years ago at ten o’clock at night. My insurance agent (the guy who sold me the insurance, not the company rep) showed up and hung out at the police station until 2 AM and was my advocate for days/weeks after. There was nothing in it for him except our friendship and me recommending him to people I know.