Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

[metalman]

Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’
September 16, 2007 Times Online



IT was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria’s formidable air defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from the Iraqi border was under way.


At a rendezvous point on the ground, a Shaldag air force commando team was waiting to direct their laser beams at the target for the approaching jets. The team had arrived a day earlier, taking up position near a large underground depot. Soon the bunkers were in flames.



--


mystery solved. what next? iran?

[Guest]

Re: Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

Metalman -

The article below is run by Agence France Press, and indicates France is moving towards greater adhesion with the US / UK and other nations who quite explicitly state for public release that the gaining of a military nuclear capability by Iran "cannot be allowed to pass".

This French press data by a minister, for public consumption, rebuts the thesis popular on so many blogs that attempts to deny Iran a nuclear capability are solely a US "rogue" action.

I have no doubt there are many compelling arguments regarding the hypocrisy of the industrialised nations to deny Iran nuclear capability, and their arguments largely center on A) oil's running low, so in 20 years Iran will need nuclear power just as much as anyone else. And B) if Israel has had undeclared nukes for decades it's the height of hypocrisy to deny them to a regional Muslim rival.

This news clip from Agence France Presse merely calls attention to the fact that a number of countries are now becoming increasingly explicit in their statements that Iran's present vigorously self assertive Shia theocracy, and it's refusal to grow their nuclear program under a regime of full IEA inspections, are a combination increasingly regarded as having some very ominous promise for the entire region.

Complementing this apparent shift in EU (government level, non popular!)published diplomatic sentiment regarding final options towards Iran is the deafening silence heard round the world from Arab Gulf States, subsequent to the Israeli bombing raid into Syria to destroy an apparent nuclear stockpile?

What is astonishing, is the total lack of Arab public reprimands of Israel for this incursion to destroy Syria's apparent nuke stockpiles. These are nations that historically jump on every last opportunity to rake Israel over the coals. And Syria is even nominally a Sunni nation. What is the hidden denominator causing them to maintain a complacent silence? Iran!

In Europe, one speculation I've read for instance was about Merkel in Germany - that she will publicly deplore the eventuality of any conflict with Iran in the event final negotiations fail, but privately would "not seek to impede" the US or the Israelis attempting to "neutralise" the problem should all negotiation finally finally fail.

I am quite sure this assertion would meet with some very heated debate in certain EU circles, but the possibility is very much there, with France now acknowledging the necessity for some final accountability.

There is enormous popular preference in the EU for pacifism at all costs, which means it is impermissible to regard negotiations which prolong without a single result even for a decade to be ever be acknowledged as "failed" strategy. There is no "backup plan" to negotiation, only more negotiation.

Therefore sitting Governments must bow to popular wish in all appearances to survive electorally - but at the realpolitik government level with the unholy quagmire of a nuclear armed Iran looming over the Sunni States and 40% of the globe's remaining oil, these nations might not be hugely displeased to have a "fallback position" regarding Iran if after five or ten full years of "diplomatic negotiations" nothing tangible resulted.

I'm fully aware that this description of what's really occurring receives a very hostile reception on North American anti-government blogs of every political stripe and description - where the standard grist for the blog mill is that every last single action of the US government is taken with no other nation's tacit agreement, such that ALL US actions are by definition 100% "rogue".

The biggest tell-tale of all that there are other countries who would not mind a restrained Iran, is merely to look at the implied growing alarm of the Sunni nations adjoining Iran, as they have not uttered a peep at Israel's incursion into Syria, which is a Sunni ME nation. The Sunni Gulf states emphatically do not wish to see Iran proceed to nuclear armament. All the bloggers decrying unmitigated rogue US action will talk right past this, or they will suggest to you in all seriousness that it is Saudi Arabia's or the UAE's, or the UN's task to restrain the Iranians from achieving a nuclear weapon capability.


_______________

Sunday, September 16, 2007


By AFP


The world should brace for a possible war over the Iranian nuclear crisis but seeking a solution through talks should take priority, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said on Sunday.

"We have to prepare for the worst, and the worst is war," he said in an interview broadcast on French television and radio.

"We must negotiate right to the end," with Iran, he said, but underlined that if Tehran possessed an atomic weapon, it would represent "a real danger for the whole world."

Calling the nuclear standoff "the greatest crisis" of present times, the minister said: "We will not accept that the bomb is manufactured," and hinted that military plans were on the way.

"We are trying to put in place plans which are the privilege of chiefs of staff and that is not for tomorrow," he said but stressed that although any attack on Iran was far from taking place, "It is normal for us to plan" for any eventuality.

In Washington, US Defense Secretary Robert Gates took a more muted approach on Sunday.

"I will tell you that I think the administration believes at this point that continuing to try and deal with the Iranian threat ... through diplomatic and economic means is by far the preferable approach," he said.

Kouchner meanwhile said France wanted the European Union to prepare sanctions against Iran, outside the ambit of the UN Security Council, to force Tehran to forsake its nuclear ambitions.

"We have decided that while negotiations are continuing ... to prepare eventual sanctions outside the ambit of UN sanctions. Our good friends, the Germans, suggested that," he said.

The foreign minister also said leading French companies such as Total and Gaz de France had been urged not to undertake new work or contracts in Iran.

Tehran vehemently denies Western allegations it is seeking an atomic weapon, saying its nuclear drive is aimed at providing electricity for a growing population whose fossil fuels will one day run out.

The five permanent Security Council members -- Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States -- plus Germany are due to meet to discuss a new draft UN resolution on sanctions against Iran on September 21 in Washington.

[Glacial]

Re: Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

To be fair, the 'Sunni nations surrounding Iran' are largely US satellite states, whose leaders can be reasonably expected to follow whatever the American line is these days, at least as far as they can without provoking mobs of outraged Arabs to storm their palaces and drive them into exile.

The Syrians, also, are still considering their response to the Israeli 'operation,' which if done by any other country I imagine would be correctly described as an absolutely illegal, and aggressive, act of war on a neighboring country.

And the nuclear booga-booga is just getting ridiculous. The NORTH KOREANS don't possess a warhead capable of being loaded on a Scud, so I really fail to see how they could deliver such a weapon to the Syrians, or even aid in the construction of a weapon that is completely beyond their technological capacity. More smoking-gun-mushroom-cloud.

[Guest]

Re: Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

Glacial -

<< The Syrians, also, are still considering their response to the Israeli 'operation,' which if done by any other country I imagine would be correctly described as an absolutely illegal, and aggressive, act of war on a neighboring country. >>


Have you read much about the issues between Ban Ki Moon at the UN and the Israelis, who brought him satellite photos of Syrian trucks streaming advanced weapons to Hezbollah?

Hezbollah are fully re-armed now, via an operation evidently funded from donors "outside the country" - They appear to have been equipped with some much improved Iranian weapons despite the UN "peacekeepers" stationed there supposedly "Guarding the Peace"??

:p:p:p:p

The highly compromising point here for the Syrians is the terms of Hezbollah's original UN brokered peace deal from the summer of '06, on the terms of which Israeli complied with it's part, withdrawing 100% out of Lebanon. This withdrawal was subsequent to a war - such unilateral withdrawals are not free gifts. The withdrawal was in exchange for a Hezbollah "pledge". This was nominally (laughably) the straight equivalent of a standard "terms-of-peace" Armistice Agreement, which stipulated specifically Hezbollah in exchange for Israeli withdrawal would not re-arm. Of course in this region solemn armistice agreements are not worth the paper they are written on, with the notable exceptions of Egypt, Israel and Jordan. This armistice drawn by the UN stipulated also no other nation should take part in re-arming Hezbollah. If a year later, one nation could then be shown by satellite photos to be blatantly re-arming Hezbollah regardless, and this nation actually shares a direct border to Israel, once might say the Syrian position was "thoroughly compromised"?

Ban Ki Moon acknowledged publicly, widely quoted by the international press, that based on satellite time lapse photography, Syria was actively rearming Hezbollah. Along with such action immediately voiding the terms of any previous war resolution armistice, this direct breach was also a direct subversion of the Lebanese government, for the not inconsiderable reason that Hezbollah are a non-government militia entity in Lebanon, factions of which have clashed openly with the Lebanese Army.

Even putting Israel aside, the murder of Lebanese patriot and premier Rafik Hariri, and many other Lebanese patriots conducted by the Syrians in recent years left enough of a trail of circumstantial evidence to have prompted a UN investigative panel to be set up specifically to prosecute further discovery of the facts, and bring the perpetrators to justice. Syria's long standing, and increasingly vicious manipulation of Lebanon has been so egregious that the German assigned to head this UN investigative commission (Detlev Mehlis) threatened to resign unless Ban Ki Moon allowed him to uncover the full extent of the Syrian involvement without political sabotage.

Are we recalling that the murder of the Arch Duke Ferdinand at Sarajevo sparked a World War? Why is the murder of Lebanon's premier by Syria not an act of war? Why would any nation receiving such "solicitous attentions" from Syria not declare war on Syria? Perhaps because Lebanon was simply too weak to do so?

There was enormous international pressure from "certain interests" to not dig up too much dirt about the full extent of Syrian puppeteering in Lebanon.

It was all over the news that Assad of Syria goaded the Hezbollah into a proxy war with Israel last summer precisely to derail the UN investigation in his direct involvement in the murder of Lebanon's Hariri.

This little tinpot is a snake, born of another tinpot snake before him who kept Syria in the scariest police state vise for thirty years. This is the story of Syria's direct assassination of Lebanon's premier - it is by no means wild conjecture - it was discussed in practically all the major newspapers of the world. Le Monde, Le Figaro, The London Times, The New York Times, The Economist, Stratfor, Die Frankfurter Zeitung, La Stampa. La Repubblica, etc. etc. - all the major papers in Europe and the US and in many other parts of the world carried it, and it was the buzz all over the United Nations.

Plug in << hariri murder, un investigation >> to a google search.

It's maybe questionable to get overzealous on questions of "legality" regarding a Syria, a nation that has sucked the life out of Lebanon for twenty years while murdering a dozen of their top anti Syrian leaders to maintain it's stranglehold, and who even instigated a proxy war via Hezbollah last summer with Israel merely to derail a UN investigation into Assad and his top echelon staff personally? Just how unscrupulous is this little tinpot?

This guy is one scary little fucker. He's carrying on the proud tradition of his PAPA, who decapitated (AKA demoted) the entire top officer class of the Syrian army like clockwork every six months for decades merely to protect himself against innumerable plots to assassinate him.

I compare this to Israel, with a genuine multiparty system, a manifestly independent judiciary capable of deposing their own president on a vice charge - a country with the sobriety of contractual belief and seriousness sufficient to give back the Sinai to Egypt for peace after a war started by the Egyptians! Imagine the Arab nations giving the Israelis land back after a war started by the Israelis. LOL! Israel, who has been serious enough to have stuck to that land for peace bargain for forty years since with Egypt, who made peace with Jordan, and stuck to the bargain for forty years too, who gave back Gaza to Palestinian Hamas hoping for another open door for peace and got a murderous little war between Palestinian factions brewing on their doorstep instead.

Again Israel, who last time there was a war with Lebanon two decades ago due to constant shelling into Israel won the entire southern half of that country in warfare, and promptly gave it all back to the Lebanese hoping for a serious peace there to. Who derailed that land for peace deal? SYRIA, via their machinations in Lebanon through Hezbollah - and they were just getting warmed up - thirty years ago.

Again Israel, who offered Arafat 98% of all his territorial demands at Camp David, in exchange for lasting peace, and was turned down?

The Israelis are by no means perfect. They are getting seriously paranoid, which is not constructive. They have made some bad mistakes, but anyone who calls last summer's war with Lebanon "unprovoked" should take a look at the slimy little police state state called Syria to the North. If it were not for Syria's bloody meddling in Lebanon the Lebanese and the Israelis would long ago have been at peace. I personally know Lebanese (not Christian ones either!) who take pains to carefully note this. They openly say that Syria has been far, far far worse for their nation than Israel ever was.

How do we spell P.R.O.X.Y. W.A.R.S ? Who in this neighborhood do the Israeli's have to use as a P.R.O.X.Y.? No-one. It is neighboring countries who are employing proxys. And if you think Hamas are not in Iran's pocket directly think again.

Just how are the Israelis supposed to appease Hezbollah and Hamas - by committing suicide?


:p:p:p:p

[Tet]

Re: Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’
September 16, 2007 Times Online



IT was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria’s formidable air defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from the Iraqi border was under way.


At a rendezvous point on the ground, a Shaldag air force commando team was waiting to direct their laser beams at the target for the approaching jets. The team had arrived a day earlier, taking up position near a large underground depot. Soon the bunkers were in flames.



--


mystery solved. what next? iran?

lmao, the brave israelites dropped their fuel tanks, dropped their munitions, turned tail and ran away once they were missile locked. Best they stick to shooting rock throwing 12-year olds. If the israelites hit something, our media would be showing the pictures 24/7, especially after last summer's beating. Last summer israelites get their asses handed to them by a militia and now they can't even buzz Assad's palace anymore since Syria took delivery of Russian missiles. Looks like Israel has lousy tanks and now they've got lousy jets and won't be able to get the US to pay for some F-22's for several years, what are they going to do until then, become good neighbors?

Israel didn't bomb anything except an empty field when they turned tail and ran. Looks more and more doubtful that israel can convince the US to invade Iran and certainly Israel isn't going to mess with Iran. It would appear the world has caught on to israel's tricks, explains why Iran's nuclear facility is protected by Russia's S-300 surface to air missiles.

This little raid did spike the price of crude up over $2, which I'm sure was the intended outcome to begin with so once again mission accomplished.

[Guest]

Re: Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

That's right Tet - Nations intelligently start wars merely to subtly manipulate the price of crude.

Brilliant commercial strategy, not to speak of nailing all the imponderable results down to the floor with such powerful predictive risk modeling!

I'd sure like to get my hands on those "intelligence" journals which give you the inside track on what's happening in the real world. They must be worth their weight in something.

The only small doubt nagging at the back of my mind is, isn't this is a strategy somewhat akin to strapping a fifty gallon drum of acetylene to the back end of a scooter and cooking it off to get some vehicle acceleration?

:p :p

[jacobdcoates]

Re: Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

TEt- It is Standard Operating Procedure to drop external fuel tanks and gravity bomb when an aircraft has a surface to air missile locked on to it, they weren't being coward as you suggest, they were being smart. Doing those things decrease the aircraft weight substantially, giving it greater maneuverability to avoid the missile.

The Russian sa-300 is nothing to sneeze at, it is on par with the first gen maybe 2nd gen Patriots.

[Tet]

Re: Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

TEt- It is Standard Operating Procedure to drop external fuel tanks and gravity bomb when an aircraft has a surface to air missile locked on to it, they weren't being coward as you suggest, they were being smart. Doing those things decrease the aircraft weight substantially, giving it greater maneuverability to avoid the missile.

The Russian sa-300 is nothing to sneeze at, it is on par with the first gen maybe 2nd gen Patriots.

LMAO, israelites turned tail and fled which is just what they did last summer if I recall. You suggesting that running away is now considered to be winning? S-300 isn't in Syria it's in Iran. Dropping external tanks and bombs when you've been spotted and that loud buzzing sound is in the cockpit is SOP for getting the hell out of there. Israel didn't hit anything or our media would be showing pictures 24/7. Making up bullshit shories is the best they can do.

[jacobdcoates]

Re: Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

No, I am not suggesting running away is winning, if it was then a lot more wars in the world would have been won instead of lost. SOP is to dump fuel and ordinance when you have a missile lock on your aircraft, glad we agree. But as from what I glanced of the stories it wasn't the Israelis claim to have have blown up a nuke cache nor were the Syrians, seems that part of blowing up a nuke cache is pure speculation. Since both sides are pretty much mum on what happened. With the exception of the Israelis saying our guys are brave and the Syrians say we kicked there butts, but what do you expect each side to say.

No they do no have the S-300 as far as I know, Then again the Syrian did just install a modern AA system over suspected nuclear sites and palace, 36D6 [NATO designated TIN SHIELD]. It is a mobile phased array air warfare command and control system, could be what the Israelis were running away from, I know I would. Just some food for thought Tet.


But really, are we to take the Syrians words at face value, totally devoid of any deception. I sorry I can not bring myself to believe the Syrian Govt is so benign or any govt for that matter, about what the Israelis did or didn't do.

They do have a very good reason for lying, embarrassment. Then again it is possible that they are telling the truth, although the their track record is very slim on that point.

[Guest]

Re: Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

Lebanese MP 'killed in bombing'

Nearby cars were set alight or damaged by the explosion Explosion aftermath An anti-Syrian Lebanese MP has been killed in a car bomb attack in a mainly Christian suburb of the Lebanese capital, Beirut, officials have said. Antoine Ghanim, a member of the Maronite Phalange party, and at least three others died when his car exploded in the eastern Sin al-Fil district. The blast also damaged several nearby buildings and set four cars alight. The son of the Phalange leader Amin Gemayel, Pierre Gemayel, was shot dead by gunmen in November 2006. ANTOINE GHANIM Anti-Syrian member of Lebanese parliament 64-year-old lawyer Member of Lebanon's Christian Phalange party Elected deputy in 2000 Re-elected in 2005 Five other high-profile anti-Syrian Lebanese figures have been killed since the assassination of the former Prime Minister, Rafik Hariri, in 2005. The Syrian government has denied any involvement in the killings. Political deadlock The large car bomb exploded in late afternoon near the al-Hayik roundabout in Sin el-Fil. Local television stations soon broadcast pictures of rescuers dragging charred bodies from the scene of the blast. Several seriously injured and burnt people were also taken away by ambulances. Reports said Mr Ghanim had removed his parliamentary number plate and put it in the back of the car in an attempt to reduce his profile. Mr Ghanim was a member of the governing 14 March Movement and his death has reduced the bloc's majority in the Lebanese Chamber of Deputies to just two. It also comes less than a week before Lebanese MPs are scheduled to meet to elect a new president. Under Lebanon's sectarian political system, the post is reserved for a Maronite Christian. The BBC's Jim Muir in Beirut says that despite the continuing deadlock between pro- and anti-Syrian factions in parliament, there had been signs of moderation and a will for dialogue between the two sides ahead of the vote. Tensions are now bound to rise, our correspondent says. In July, a Muslim member of the movement, Walid Eido, was among at least 10 people killed in an explosion in Beirut's Manara neighbourhood.