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  • How Bad is the Internet?

    A recent letter to the editor of the New York Times from Verizon Chairman Ivan Seidenberg had me scratching my head.

    Seidenberg wrote to rebut a Times Op-Ed by former White House technology adviser Susan Crawford, in which she argues that the United States' high-speed Internet marketplace suffers from a lack of competition, a problem that drives broadband prices up and services down for American Internet users.

    "Over the last 10 years, we have deregulated high-speed Internet access in the hope that competition among providers would protect consumers," Crawford wrote. "The result? We now have neither a functioning competitive market for high-speed wired Internet access nor government oversight."

    Our Broadband Backwater

    Indeed. It's gotten so bad the U.S. has gone from number one in broadband penetration at the close of the 20th century down to -- depending on the survey -- 18th, 22nd or 25th in the world. And Americans continue to pay a whole lot more and get a whole lot less of the Internet speeds that we deserve.

    Compare our circumstances to those in Japan, for example, where Internet users are accustomed to surfing the Web at speeds of 100 Mbps (or megabits per second) at the same prices Americans pay for dial-up. In Hong Kong, one provider now offers a $20 a month "triple play" package that includes a blistering 1,000 Mbps data service.
    Despite the evidence, Verizon's Seidenberg wrote that Crawford was wrong; America's Internet is the best in the world.

    "America has a very good broadband story; someone just has to be willing to tell it," Seidenberg argues in his letter to the Times. As evidence he cites a 2011 World Economic Forum global survey, which in the words of Seidenberg "ranks the United States first in Internet competition."

    Say what? I had to see that for myself.

    The most recent WEF "Global Competitiveness" report (pdf) features U.S. rankings on page 363. The good news is that we're ranked first in the world for available airline seats. But the United States' Internet rankings are terrible. We're 18th in the availability of the latest technology, 18th in Internet users per capita and 26th in Internet bandwidth per capita.

    Perhaps Seidenberg's evidence is buried elsewhere. On page 294 of another WEF report (pdf) I found a section on "political and regulatory environments" that featured an Internet and telephone sector competition index.

    The report allegedly looks at the level of competition for "retail Internet access services, for international long-distance calls, and for digital cellular mobile services," placing countries on a 0 (worst) to 6 (best) scale.

    But it doesn't actually measure market competition beyond determining whether these three separate fields remain state-sanctioned monopolies.

    Well, U.S. telecommunications isn't a monopoly anymore. We did manage to break up Ma Bell in the 1980s, but her children are showing every intention to reassemble themselves as a modern-day equivalent. That hasn't happened. At least not yet, so on retail Internet access we get a 2, indicating that its not a monopoly market; on international long distance we get a 2; and on digital cellular mobile services we get a 2.

    Our cumulative score is a 6, according to the report, the best possible ranking -- or "first in Internet competition" in Seidenberg's profoundly misleading interpretation.
    Want to know who else came in "first?"

    Sixty other countries, including Angola, Burundi, the Kyrgyz Republic, Venezuela and Vietnam.

    We're all Number One!

    So if you are proud that the U.S. offers an Internet that's on par with, er... Angola's, stand beside Seidenberg and wave the flag.

    But if you agree with Crawford that the lack of true competition in the U.S. has put us on a perilous path, demand that we do more to guarantee universal and affordable access in a marketplace with real choices.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timoth...b_1138775.html

  • #2
    Re: How Bad is the Internet?

    I will say this, for reasons I don't understand my cable internet started sucking a few years ago. My youtube videos don't stream fast enough to watch. Downloads frequently go at 80 to 120 k.. strangely though, they generally can be sped up with a download accelerator. However, that doesn't help my xbox or youtube. I've wondered if my cable modem and our router are aging and slowing me down due to outdated protocols (though I updated their firmwares recently to no avail). I hate to replace them for 100 bucks and find out it makes no difference.

    Since I'm in an apartment right now, the cable is my only option.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How Bad is the Internet?

      I could see the US' low population density and high population dispersion being a handicap in this. How do densely populated US states compare to other nations?
      "It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here." - Deus Ex HR

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How Bad is the Internet?

        Originally posted by huffpo
        ...
        Our cumulative score is a 6, according to the report, the best possible ranking -- or "first in Internet competition" in Seidenberg's profoundly misleading interpretation.
        Want to know who else came in "first?"

        Sixty other countries, including Angola, Burundi, the Kyrgyz Republic, Venezuela and Vietnam.

        We're all Number One!

        So if you are proud that the U.S. offers an Internet that's on par with, er... Angola's, stand beside Seidenberg and wave the flag.

        But if you agree with Crawford that the lack of true competition in the U.S. has put us on a perilous path, demand that we do more to guarantee universal and affordable access in a marketplace with real choices.
        this dude wouldnt by chance have some axe to grind in this obama-supporter puff piece, would he?
        nah...

        writing as one who has been playing/working on the net since '94 - perhaps longer than dude here has been an adult?
        who managed to actually generate a signficant chunk of his self-empl revenues offering various wwweb services
        (not that thats saying all that much... and most of even that income has evaporated over past 10years...)
        and whos paying over 250bux/mo for 'communications' services, incl verizons g3 'broadband'...

        first off, the idea theres 'no competition' in the internet-access space = absurd.
        not when the big wireless telcos are slugging it out daily, practically giving away smartfones and have dramatically increased the bandwidth, while cutting the price of it substantially?
        never mind that the cable tv companies are slugging it out vs the landline telcos...
        and never mind the satellite services...

        and not when the vast majority of both the population as well as populated landmass is served by several options of various levels of broadband service, while keeping in mind we've come a long way baybee, from the days of 2400baud dial-up, a phenomenal market penetration in such a short time - seen in what other sector, in US history?

        the real 'lack of competition' is in the delivery of a/v content, with most of the 'products' so jammed up with commercials its got to the point of being unwatchable, even with a GD DVR...

        and have got fed up to the point that i finally brokedown and bought me a 'streaming media' box and intend on chopping my cable service back to the min/base level of sevice, if not elimination of that entirely (assuming i can get 3or4 of the majors, plus PBS via the airwaves), but keep the roadrunner, of course

        bleep bleep!

        but my point being (finally - chrikie, do i get 'windy' sometimes.. ;)

        that this sounds like more lobbying for crony-capitalism and corp welfare subsidy-mongoring,
        by the lamestream media...
        Last edited by lektrode; December 09, 2011, 04:42 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: How Bad is the Internet?

          I will say that I have friends all over the world that have lived here in the states. One in particular is in Singapore right now and she states that their internet is horrible not to mention a lot of it is censored.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How Bad is the Internet?

            When it comes to telecom/internet, I'll take Thailand any day. I live ten kilometers outside Chiang Mai, in a small village surrounded by rice fields. High speed is cheap and fast and when there are problems service is prompt and excellent. I usually spend ten weeks per year in the states. Internet access is always frustrating and expensive. Friends who live in more urban areas have excellent speed, but pay quite a bit.

            I've posted these numbers before. Just paid my Thai landline bill for the month: 124 baht = $ 4.30. Cell phone is usually around 280 baht = $ 9.30 (Texting is very cheap and only calling party is charged.) High speed internet is down to 600 baht per month = $20.00. My wife, like most people here, has a pay as you go phone. These are also very cheap compared to the states. I usually pick up a cell phone to use in the states for the 70 or so days I am there and it's quite expensive. I finally got rid of our landline in Virginia two years ago when the line went dead and the Verizon rep said, "There will be a repair truck in your area Tuesday." "Today is Tuesday," I said. "Next Tuesday," said the rep.

            I'm sure there is some internet censorship in Singapore, but the service itself is usually excellent. Got off a plane there five years ago. Was ready to take a taxi, but realized I'd left my friend's phone number at home. Wasn't a problem. After you walk through customs you face a huge bank of computers free and ready to go. So I retrieved the number and went looking for money to put in the phones not realizing they were also free.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: How Bad is the Internet?

              Originally posted by Thailandnotes View Post
              When it comes to telecom/internet, I'll take Thailand any day. .... Thai landline bill for the month: 124 baht = $ 4.30. Cell phone is usually around 280 baht = $ 9.30 (Texting is very cheap and only calling party is charged.) High speed internet is down to 600 baht per month = $20.00.....
              sounds good to me!
              but would suppose they are charging 'what the market will bear' over there?
              (meaning, if they could get more, they would?)

              adding: the other thing that comes to mind is that a lot of their telco infrastructure (perhaps) didnt exist all that long ago? and it would've been easier/cheaper to install it (recently), so they are operating from a lower cost point to start with?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: How Bad is the Internet?

                In Thailand 3 companies provide cell phone service. 6-8 companies provide broadband. There is huge competition for selling the actual phones/devices.

                The "free" phone packaged with 2-year contract & penalties so prevalent in the US is what you get with limited competition.

                Last summer I tried to get a wireless aircard from Verizon for a pay-as-you-go high speed connection. The USB device was cheap if you signed up for a two year package. If you wanted a pay-as-you-go plan, the device was a whopping 260 dollars. I ended up buying one on ebay for 22 dollars. In Thailand I would have bought one at the little shop next to the grocery store.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How Bad is the Internet?

                  well thats not unfair, is it? having to pay the full cost of the device.

                  wont argue with the limited competition factor here in The US, but the infrastructure costs here are HUGE and they gotta make a profit, dont they?

                  that said, i've been ignoring their come-on-and-get-it offer for a 'free phone every 2 years' for the past 5
                  i like not having a contract, unless they want to make it worth my while to sign one and a 'free' phone dont git it, not when , like yerself, i can get practically brand new ones off ebay for 25bux or less (and keep buying my same old model, since i get tired of having to master a whole new set of bells-n-whistle 'features' every couple of years, never mind having to buy new spare batteries, car-chargers etc etc - since they change it _all_ every GD time they 'upgrade' em??!!! - why cant they keep the batteries and cords the same??

                  but still TN, that is a sweet deal you get over there, to be sure (course compared to this place, just about _everything_ is a sweeter deal elsewhere - but least i dont have to shovel this time of year, so hey! ;)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: How Bad is the Internet?

                    Long article in the Post about failed ATT/Tmobile merger.

                    From 1998 to 2010, the firm handed out more than $45 million to Democratic and Republican candidates, more than any other company in America. During that period, AT&T also shelled out more than $130 million for lobbying.

                    With the biggest merger in years at stake, AT&T’s lobbying machine kicked into gear.

                    The company brought on 18 outside firms to assist in the all-out effort, enlisting the help of former U.S. senators John Breaux (D-La.) and Trent Lott (R-Miss.). Since the merger was unveiled, the company has spent more than $9 million on lobbying, according to public records.

                    It was a smooth, highly synchronized campaign. In every ad, letter and meeting with lawmakers and regulators, the company hammered home three reasons the merger should be approved: It would create jobs, bring the Internet to isolated and neglected areas of the country, and help Americans get online and compete better with countries that are leaping ahead in high-tech innovations, according to Capitol Hill staff and government officials.

                    http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...O_story_1.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How Bad is the Internet?

                      Originally posted by lektrode View Post
                      well thats not unfair, is it? having to pay the full cost of the device.
                      I'd say Verizon was charging 10 times the cost of the device.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: How Bad is the Internet?

                        I hope I didn't misunderstand the meaning of your post, lektrode, but it's my understanding that you feel that internet access in the U.S. is competitively or reasonably priced.

                        Originally posted by lektrode View Post
                        first off, the idea theres 'no competition' in the internet-access space = absurd.
                        The presence of multiple "competitors" in a field does not mean that there is any real competition. It is my opinion that in the internet access, cable television, and mobile phone services, what you have is an oligopoly that colludes to keep prices higher than they really need to be.

                        As an example: at least in Houston, the pricing for internet access, cable television, and mobile phone service is essentially the same no matter which vendor you choose.

                        As another example, I recently tried to get some pricing information for internet access. It took me quite a while to figure out the actual monthly cost of internet access from AT&T. Their web site was remarkably difficult to use when all I wanted to know was the non-introductory, unbundled price for internet access. This obfuscation is a trick cartels or oligopolies use to hide actual pricing. In markets where there is real competition, pricing is highly transparent (see the various companies engaged in on-line retail such as Amazon).

                        not when the big wireless telcos are slugging it out daily, practically giving away smartfones and have dramatically increased the bandwidth, while cutting the price of it substantially?
                        The telephones are the handles and the monthly service fees are the razor blades. I would gladly pay full retail price for a smart phone if I could get a reasonable price on the monthly fees. A smart phone plan would cost me $90/month plus all the various special taxes levied on mobile phone services, which would bring the price to over $100/month. $100/month is $1,200 per year and a person would have to gross roughly $1,800 to pay for a year's smart phone service.

                        Despite the high prices compared to other developed countries, mobile phone service in the U.S. is among the worst in the world. [I've heard that our fine friends in Canada may actually have it worse.] The sound quality absolutely pales in comparison to a land line, a la carte SMS messaging is $0.10 or more per message received or sent--that includes paying for unsolicited advertisements--and the plans are outrageously expensive compared to land lines fees. This despite the fact that land line infrastructure is far more expensive to roll out and maintain than mobile phone infrastructure.

                        never mind that the cable tv companies are slugging it out vs the landline telcos...
                        and never mind the satellite services...
                        It's my understanding that, for all intents and purposes, the pricing of cable television is the same regardless of whether you have a choice in providers or not. Furthermore, the lack of a true a la carte way of purchasing cable television reeks of monopoly behavior.

                        and not when the vast majority of both the population as well as populated landmass is served by several options of various levels of broadband service, while keeping in mind we've come a long way baybee, from the days of 2400baud dial-up, a phenomenal market penetration in such a short time - seen in what other sector, in US history?
                        Technology is supposed to become more affordable as time passes and widespread internet access is very much an issue of faster, more reliable, and less expensive technology. 2400 baud modems were prevalent in 1988 or thereabouts when top-end computers were about $3,000-$4,000 in 1988 dollars. For $1,800 today, you can buy a computer with capabilities that most users in 1988 couldn't imagine having.

                        the real 'lack of competition' is in the delivery of a/v content, with most of the 'products' so jammed up with commercials its got to the point of being unwatchable, even with a GD DVR...

                        and have got fed up to the point that i finally brokedown and bought me a 'streaming media' box and intend on chopping my cable service back to the min/base level of sevice, if not elimination of that entirely (assuming i can get 3or4 of the majors, plus PBS via the airwaves), but keep the roadrunner, of course
                        Cable television, when it first came out, was for-pay television because you paid to not have to put up with commercials. Now, not only are there commercials, there are roughly 20 minutes of commercials in every hour versus 10 minutes of commercials every hour in the 1980s. Despite all the extra money from advertising, cable television prices are consistently high from provider to provider. In my opinion, it seems like monopolistic behavior.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: How Bad is the Internet?

                          These articles on the crappy Internet strangely never discuss boring topics like Autonomous Systems, peering points, peering routers, boradband node density, Domain Servers, or other relevant topics when discussing the state of the Internet in the United States. Why?

                          President Obama spent a portion of his per-Senatorial career in Real Estate helping a class of non-profits known as CDFI - Community Development Organizations. These non-profits would help less affluent in the United States purchase a home that they would not other wise be able to afford with funds provided directly from Banks. Banks were faced with find themselves in violation of the Community Reinvestment Act or become investors in a local CDFI. Well, these firms are stuck becuase Real Estate is in a big rut and these CDFIs don't want to shut down - what should they do??

                          First, came the Fresh Food Intiative - Financing Supermarkets in "Food Deserts" near the Inner City (meaning stores that aren't financially viable without Government financial support) - using a combination of Money from Banks where the Bank gets Great reduction in Corporate Income Taxes and Government Grants.

                          How many Supermarket Financing can you do and there are so-so many CDFIs and Real Estate is in the rut. CDFI are a very important Fundraising vehicle and grass roots political network for the Democratic party.
                          Internet Deserts - your next problem that CDFIs can solve - ...perhaps I can get the President to address the Porsche desert in my driveway.
                          Here is one CDFI who has stepped up to help with the problem...Rural Community Assistance Corporation
                          http://www.rcac.org/doc.aspx?42
                          Last edited by BK; December 09, 2011, 09:24 PM. Reason: spelling

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: How Bad is the Internet?

                            Monopoly is the key to many companies success. ATT was spending 37 billion to buy Tmobile and shut down competition instead of 5 or 6 billion to update and improve service, or in other words to compete.

                            Seoul is the “Broadband Capital of the World”, cheapest, fastest, most ubiquitous ADSL and VDSL, but until last year every person in Korean was forced to use Internet Explorer due to laws giving the browser a monopoly over financial transactions.

                            It may be free to skype half way round the world instead of running up your long distance bill, but they've got you in so many other ways as Milton Kuo points out above.

                            Ma Bell was reincarnated and is alive and well.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: How Bad is the Internet?

                              Monopoly is the key
                              You got that right, Thai. Also the key to the decline of product and service.

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