The native american Criminal Class

[mesyn191]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

the experience of New Hampshire over the past 235 years would suggest otherwise.

I don't know enough about NH to comment about its state government, but even if that were true it doesn't matter. There is plenty of evidence to show that in the other 49 states as well as the rest of the world that competent saint like politicians who work for nothing are scarce in the extreme, and since we're talking about governing the whole country and not just NH your point would be mooted anyways.

and paying them a bunch of money, as in most of the blue states, doesnt seem to have got them anything better, in the way of Results.

That is a different argument altogether. The whole point of having the people pay them sufficiently via taxes is so that they don't end up starting to work for the monied interests when those monied interests start throwing cash at them. Now politicians can still be corrupted for other reasons but you certainly don't want to give them reasons to be so.

and the best way to keep them "free from the influence and temptation" is to send them home as soon as possible.

just sayin...

There are other countries and states that have term limits and they still have major problems with their politicians, California for instance has a particularly horrible state government and has had term limits for almost 30 yr now.

[cjppjc]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

I think it's because they've bought into the meme that he can't win.

Typical conversation:

"Ron Paul is honest. He has great ideas. He's the only one running who's not bought off by special interests. Vote for Ron Paul!"

"Yeah, he's great but he can't win."

I do not understand why republican party members do not vote for Ron Paul. Is it just the love of war?

I think we give large bonuses to a much-enlarged FBI agency for busting corrupt officials and lobbyists. We have a ton of laws on the books, both for congress and wall street. We just need enforcement. These swine cost more blood and treasure than any terrorist boogeymen has in the history of the world.

This is a great question. Although I agree, I think it is more than just "He can't win." Ron Paul is really different. It scares people. They would rather hope, and have someone tinker around the edges. We must also recognize that many think the problems can be solved, that the system isn't broken. That the success of a man like Ron Paul represents more than their minds can admit. His the emperor has no cloths substance is frightening to many. They can use that to build a negitive emotional block, and that can be used in many ways. "He is wrong about Iran." "He can't win."

Ron Paul is so different than what people expect from a President. They can't picture it.

[Sutter Cane]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

Get The Money Out, is the only way.

A start:

Rep. Deutch Introduces OCCUPIED Constitutional Amendment To Ban Corporate Money In Politics

By Zaid Jilani on Nov 18, 2011 at 1:00 pm
Rep. Ted Deutch (D-FL) is tackling corporate money in politics head on.

In one of the greatest signs yet that the 99 Percenters are having an impact, Rep. Ted Deutch (D-FL), a member of the House Judiciary Committee, today introduced an amendment that would ban corporate money in politics and end corporate personhood once and for all. Deutch’s amendment, called the Outlawing Corporate Cash Undermining the Public Interest in our Elections and Democracy (OCCUPIED) Amendment, would overturn the Citizens United decision, re-establishing the right of Congress and the states to regulate campaign finance laws, and to effectively outlaw the ability of for-profit corporations to contribute to campaign spending.

[shiny!]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

This is a great question. Although I agree, I think it is more than just "He can't win." Ron Paul is really different. It scares people. They would rather hope, and have someone tinker around the edges. We must also recognize that many think the problems can be solved, that the system isn't broken. That the success of a man like Ron Paul represents more than their minds can admit. His the emperor has no cloths substance is frightening to many. They can use that to build a negitive emotional block, and that can be used in many ways. "He is wrong about Iran." "He can't win."

Ron Paul is so different than what people expect from a President. They can't picture it.

Excellent insight! I think you nailed it.

[shiny!]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

A start:

Rep. Ted Deutch (D-FL) is tackling corporate money in politics head on.

In one of the greatest signs yet that the 99 Percenters are having an impact, Rep. Ted Deutch (D-FL), a member of the House Judiciary Committee, today introduced an amendment that would ban corporate money in politics and end corporate personhood once and for all. Deutch’s amendment, called the Outlawing Corporate Cash Undermining the Public Interest in our Elections and Democracy (OCCUPIED) Amendment, would overturn the Citizens United decision, re-establishing the right of Congress and the states to regulate campaign finance laws, and to effectively outlaw the ability of for-profit corporations to contribute to campaign spending.

A great start, but the corporations will simply funnel money to their chosen candidates through PACs. Where should we draw the line on candidates accepting money from PACs? Or on PACs purchasing air time to run ads for and against candidates?

[oddlots]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

Absolutely agree. Hugely admirable. His principled stance on civil liberties alone should make him a hero to liberals as well as conservatives.

I only wish someone could convince him that his honestly held views regarding the market always sorting it out for itself are a doomsday recipe when it comes to finance and banking as evidenced by the disaster we're living through.

[mesyn191]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

A great start, but the corporations will simply funnel money to their chosen candidates through PACs. Where should we draw the line on candidates accepting money from PACs? Or on PACs purchasing air time to run ads for and against candidates?

You have to eliminate all possible ways they can get money, so even PAC's should be canned. Pay for political ads and such should come from a public fund and every candidate should get the same amount of funding. Hopefully this sort of thing would get the politicians to focus less on campaiging and preparing to campaign and more on actually running the government properly so stuff gets done right.

[c1ue]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

Where should we draw the line on candidates accepting money from PACs? Or on PACs purchasing air time to run ads for and against candidates?

The line should be quite clear: no outside money for any political reason whatsoever.

I personally would extend this to any broadcast ad, bought by anyone, is only legal if purchased by an individual.

Not individuals, which is the loophole PACs go through.

And the only way for that to work? Candidates must publish detailed financial data before running for office, and each/every expenditure for advertising purposes must also be public.

No 'discounts' for favored candidates, no 'bundling' - which is a blatant euphemism for money laundering, no 'unsolicited internet donations', etc etc.

Any 'volunteers' must be just that: volunteers. Prohibited from being employed by the government in any capacity for 2 years. Financial records can be challenged.

[Raz]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

And you'll likely need a Special Prosecutor on a permanent basis.
But he'd have to be drawn from one of the Third Parties - no RepubliCrats allowed.

[mesyn191]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

Not at all. If anything it'd simplify things. The law and ultimately the constitution would have to be amended to the effect of: "You can't accept money/goods/favors/promises of employment elsewhere from 3rd parties while on the job as a congressman/state rep./whatever and for another 5-10 yr. after you leave office during which time you'll be paid by the US government. If you do then you lose your position and go to prison. You also can't own any stocks or companies when you take office or sit on the board of one either."

[Raz]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

.... You also can't own any stocks or companies when you take office ..."

They're not supposed to now, although current law allows them to place their holdings into a blind trust.

Somehow that didn't apply to Henry the Paulson (you remember him: liar, slimeball; another Goldman Sachs alumni).
He got an IRS waiver allowing him to sell his stock holdings tax free! I could be wrong about that. Maybe we need to check it out.

[dcarrigg]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

They're not supposed to now, although current law allows them to place their holdings into a blind trust.

Somehow that didn't apply to Henry the Paulson (you remember him: liar, slimeball; another Goldman Sachs alumni).
He got an IRS waiver allowing him to sell his stock holdings tax free! I could be wrong about that. Maybe we need to check it out.

You're not wrong, Raz. A cool $500M with 0 capital gains taxes. Must be nice.

Nice and criminal, that is.

[Raz]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

You're not wrong, Raz. A cool $500M with 0 capital gains taxes. Must be nice.

Nice and criminal, that is.

Don't be too harsh, dcarrigg. We wouldn't want people like Paulson forced into selling their yacht in a down market.

[dcarrigg]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

Don't be too harsh, dcarrigg. We wouldn't want people like Paulson forced into selling their yacht in a down market.

I hear he has it moored next to John Kerry's.

[Raz]

Re: The native american Criminal Class

Absolutely agree. Hugely admirable. His principled stance on civil liberties alone should make him a hero to liberals as well as conservatives.

I only wish someone could convince him that his honestly held views regarding the market always sorting it out for itself are a doomsday recipe when it comes to finance and banking as evidenced by the disaster we're living through.

I share your concern and don't believe the Libertarian approach (Big L) is practical. But I've heard him explain his viewpoint that if people had to take full responsibility for depositing their savings they'd be far more diligent in a vetting process.
And that's true, but it doesn't forgo the need to have an army of bank examiners - and a Justice Department that isn't whored out to everyone from the bankers and brokers to the abortion industry.

Ron Paul clearly believes as we do that right now dozens of the frauds should be doing hard time in a Federal Pen.
But he'd probably start with Bernanke.