Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

[Slimprofits]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

yep... sigh... its beginning to get depressing - the left has their full playbook on display now, eh?
welcome comrades, to the big apple:

If the playbook is toplessness, than sign me up.

[mesyn191]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

I was a protester at UC Berkeley in the late 1960s, and what did our protests accomplish?

Soooo you're arguing no one should protest because nothing good has ever come of it? Reaaalllly? You're generation grew up with Martin L. King didn't it? How about women's sufferage groups and the union protestors of the late 1800's-1930's if that isn't historical enough for you?

And one more footnote just to underscore the point I am making about the protest movements from 1966-to date: The students that I protested with were, for the most part, filthy pigs. They existed from protest-to-protest, stoned-out on pot or drugs, offered no constructive and workable plan for the world, and taunted the police and the establishment, all for meaningless photo-ops in the news..... Sad to say, nothing much has changed from 1966 until now, except that the world has become even worse. Compare, for example, the Middle-East now to what it was like a generation ago, and the point of the decline could not become more apparent.

It sounds like you're only going off personal perspective. There are plenty of videos showing perfectly "normal" people of all age groups in OWS. You also have to bear in mind that the city governments have been herding the truly homeless into OWS areas. Most of these people are just dirty but some are real assholes and that is where lots of the violence you're hearing about is coming from on the media. This is a tactic by the people in charge to try and discredit OWS as dirty violent hippies and you and others are falling for it. Mean while there are plenty of videos showing the cops and city governments to be inciting most of the violence by pepper spraying crowds and randomly harrassing them until someone gets too pissed off and snaps.

Look, when the Health Department in San Francisco orders the OWS encampment closed, what does that tell you about the protesters? Even Mayor Ed Lee's patience has run-out.

You're falling for meme management. Wether its the Health Dept. or the DoD or the DoE or whatever agency you want to name all you have to know is that its the people in charge cracking down. Also their "patience" ran out within days of the first OWS protests if you've been following this stuff closely. They're very quick to use violence on what are normally very peaceful crowds.

[mesyn191]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

yep... sigh... its beginning to get depressing - the left has their full playbook on display now, eh?
welcome comrades, to the big apple:

Why are you so eager to fall for meme management by the mass media? Any violence will always be blamed on OWS, the police are always in the right, OWS are dirty and smelly and hippies, etc. This is pathetic that you and others are being manipulated so easily.

[Sutter Cane]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

Why are you so eager to fall for meme management by the mass media? Any violence will always be blamed on OWS, the police are always in the right, OWS are dirty and smelly and hippies, etc. This is pathetic that you and others are being manipulated so easily.

+1

I saw this comment on Naked Capitalism recently, and it has stuck with me when seeing the OWS coverage:

I swear, nearly every news report and commentary I’ve heard about the protests has insisted on making some reference to “hippies.” Can somebody explain to this 30 year old why a cultural archetype from 40 years ago is still being referenced? Because “hippies” have never had any relevance during my lifetime. Do you have to look like a television dad from the 1950s to be taken seriously in this country?

As Jesse is fond of repeating, The Banks must be restrained, and the financial system reformed, with balance between individuals and the corporations restored to the economy, before there can be any sustained recovery. Nothing like this has even begun to happen yet. Nothing has been done to address the underlying causes that led to the OWS protests, and the circumstances that gave rise to these sentiments aren't going away but instead are effecting more and more people. The younger these people are, the less they are concerned about whether somebody looks like "a television dad from the 1950's." Those managing the memes are going to have to come up with something else once this one has run its course.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

The “old hippie” meme won’t stick.

It’s sloppy propaganda, humorous to watch.

Lice, B.O., and Woodstock squalor!

Friends who have spent a few days at OWS in NYC say they couldn’t smell a thing.

I want 10 “Future Bums of America” t-shirts to give out as Christmas presents.

I am certain that when these OWS protests began in New York City, the protesters were clean; no-one could smell a thing. But after weeks of protest and camping outside, no-one can tell me that the protesters don't stink.

In San Francisco, it has become so bad that the Health Department has had to close-down the encampment at Justen Herman Plaza in downtown SF because the encampment has become a public health and public sanitation risk to the city.

One day of protest, no problem. Welcome protesters. But one month of protest with filth and disease from living outside without sanitation, then we have issues. The protesters have over-stepped their right to free speech, and the city or state must move in to remove the protesters for the sake of the public's health.

[mesyn191]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

In San Francisco, it has become so bad that the Health Department has had to close-down the encampment at Justen Herman Plaza in downtown SF because the encampment has become a public health and public sanitation risk to the city.

No it hasn't, this is what the media and the DoH is saying, but that isn't necessarily the same thing as saying the truth. But even if it was true it wouldn't matter, especially if the alternative is throwing up your hands and saying, "Oh no minor sanitation issues and body odor!! All those protestors better stop protesting because they're ruining the country and anyways nothing ever comes of protesting." Giving up is the exact thing the people in charge would like you and OWS to do. Seriously you're coming off sounding like a pro FIRE/status quo astro turfer at times Steve.

But one month of protest with filth and disease from living outside without sanitation, then we have issues. The protesters have over-stepped their right to free speech, and the city or state must move in to remove the protesters for the sake of the public's health.

If history is anything to go by then it will take years of protesting efforts and direct action in order for OWS goal's to be met. Also if you believe all it takes is a month of protesting and minor sanitation issues to nullify their free speech rights, never no mind that they're right to protest, then perhaps you're not the true advocate of people's rights that you may think you are.

[shiny!]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

It sounds like you're only going off personal perspective. There are plenty of videos showing perfectly "normal" people of all age groups in OWS. You also have to bear in mind that the city governments have been herding the truly homeless into OWS areas. Most of these people are just dirty but some are real assholes and that is where lots of the violence you're hearing about is coming from on the media. This is a tactic by the people in charge to try and discredit OWS as dirty violent hippies and you and others are falling for it. Mean while there are plenty of videos showing the cops and city governments to be inciting most of the violence by pepper spraying crowds and randomly harrassing them until someone gets too pissed off and snaps.


You're falling for meme management. Wether its the Health Dept. or the DoD or the DoE or whatever agency you want to name all you have to know is that its the people in charge cracking down. Also their "patience" ran out within days of the first OWS protests if you've been following this stuff closely. They're very quick to use violence on what are normally very peaceful crowds.

Thank you for this perspective.

[c1ue]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

More fun with police 'breakup of dissident protests':

http://felixsalmon.tumblr.com/post/1...-of-people-who

“I was there to take down the names of people who were arrested… As I’m standing there, some African-American woman goes up to a police officer and says, ‘I need to get in. My daughter’s there. I want to know if she’s OK.’ And he said, ‘Move on, lady.’ And they kept pushing with their sticks, pushing back. And she was crying. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he throws her to the ground and starts hitting her in the head,” says Smith. “I walk over, and I say, ‘Look, cuff her if she’s done something, but you don’t need to do that.’ And he said, ‘Lady, do you want to get arrested?’ And I said, ‘Do you see my hat? I’m here as a legal observer.’ He said, ‘You want to get arrested?’ And he pushed me up against the wall.”

Retired New York Supreme Court Judge Karen Smith, working as a legal observer after the raids on Zucotti Park this Tuesday, via Paramilitary Policing of Occupy Wall Street: Excessive Use of Force amidst the New Military Urbanism (via seriouslyamerica)(via brianvan)

[Starving Steve]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

More fun with police 'breakup of dissident protests':

http://felixsalmon.tumblr.com/post/1...-of-people-who

It is very important that the OWS protesters stay on ONE MESSAGE ONLY: We are the 99% in America, and what are we getting out of Wall Street's games? We can't survive in America the way it is now. We face starvation.

DO NOT VENTURE INTO ISSUES OF: the right of free speech, nor police brutality, nor Arab spring, nor the worn-out Palestinian issue, nor whether protesters have lice and are a public health risk.

Last night (Nov 18th) in New York City was very good when protesters used a wall of a giant building to present a light-show to the world about what the entire protest was about: "We are the 99%," --- thus, we are the 99% of America, now in the streets, facing starving and getting nothing out of American capitalism the way it is now.

END OF STORY. END OF MESSAGE. The light-show was big, bright and beautiful.

[lektrode]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

+1

I saw this comment on Naked Capitalism recently, and it has stuck with me when seeing the OWS coverage:

As Jesse is fond of repeating, The Banks must be restrained, and the financial system reformed, with balance between individuals and the corporations restored to the economy, before there can be any sustained recovery. Nothing like this has even begun to happen yet. Nothing has been done to address the underlying causes that led to the OWS protests, and the circumstances that gave rise to these sentiments aren't going away but instead are effecting more and more people. The younger these people are, the less they are concerned about whether somebody looks like "a television dad from the 1950's." Those managing the memes are going to have to come up with something else once this one has run its course.

maybe so, and i agree with jesse, and its obvious that those of a certain age are quite unconcerned about 'appearances'
but the reality is that ones appearance _is_ used to evaluate him/her by almost everyone they're likely to encounter...

Can somebody explain to this 30 year old why a cultural archetype from 40 years ago is still being referenced? Because “hippies” have never had any relevance during my lifetime.

dunno where this dude lives, but eye see dozens of people every day that are emulating the lifestyle...
or "living (in) a dream" IMHO, that they seem hellbent on recreating based upon some idealized delusion of what the 60's represents to them = grandchildren of the hippys?

but this kind of stuff is beyond my paygrade, so i look to y'all to provide contrast to my own observations.

[nedtheguy]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

redacted

[lektrode]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

me too!

[lektrode]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

i must say, mr steve - that you _do_ know how to drive it home.
and here i went thinking that you are/were a geography teacher....

this is one of the best history lessons of the 60's (my little-kid days) that eye've ever....

It is said that hindsight is always 20/20: Now being 63 and looking back to the 1960s, I remember how the anti-war movement in the late 1960s got way off-base when it united with the new (at that time) environmental movement. I remember those days well:

funny enough, i do too - just didnt understand/realize all this was happnin... (altho my ole man, a 1920 unit, ww2 survivor and The Archetypal 1950's father, did his best to make me try ;)

The Sierra Club was founded to emulate the conservation efforts of John Muir in the early 20th Century. Literally, the Sierra Club was all about saving the redwoods and saving the environment in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. Greenpeace was on its thing about saving the whales. The Friends of the Earth wanted to go back to the land, found communal farms, do everything in small ways and to live in harmony with nature by becoming "small and beautiful".

so far, so good, eh?

About that time, the late 1960s, a book was published; I believe the author was Desmond and the title was: The Destruction of California. And in that book, the author advocated that environmentalists and preservationists direct their efforts to stopping and blocking all development, literally everything. Desmond even proposed that environmentalists become subversive and to gum-up all growth development proposals with frivolous lawsuits.... This book became the bible of the new environmental movement.

and the evidence would suggest that he was successful, WILDLY successful, beyond i'd imagine, even his dreams...

So by 1969, the anti-war movement became the peace movement which was united with the preservationist movement--- all of this seemed quite reasonable to me and to everyone around me. After all, the Vietnam War was all about destroying everything, so how could the anti-war movement not unite with the preservationist movement? It was a marriage made in heaven.

seems reasonable to this 'child of the 70's'

So then the preservationist movement united with Greenpeace and the latter's "Save the Whales". Since whales were highly developed air-breathing animals, how could anyone in the preservationist movement oppose saving the whales? And then the preservationist movement advocated preserving bio-diversity, which also made sense, because who could oppose saving giant redwood trees, saving sequoias, saving rare and endangered species like bald eagles and such? .... No-one ( including me ) could imagine at that time that the preservationist movement would be about saving "rare and endangered" sand flies, field-mice, jellyfish, weeds and such.

well them daze were all about 'ideals' and idolatry, were they not?
as much as i enjoy from time to time _some_ janis joplin or jimi hendrix tunes, one cant seriously say they represented the 'good' things about american life - never mind the anarchy in the streets that this counter-culture 'lifestyle' engendered and seems to be re-living itself today, in the OWS crowd.

but i dont want to get too far out of my league in these comments, so...

About 1970 or so, the peace movement ( the anti-war movement ) united with the anti-nuclear movement because nuclear power was atomic power, and atomic power had to do with E=mc^2 and atomic bombs. Since the peace movement was about preservation, the peace movement became the anti-nuclear power movement. In fact, nuclear power plants were deemed, "nukes", as in the military jargon for atomic bombs.

About 1972, this broad coalition of (pacifists + preservationists + radical environmentalists + conservationists + anti-nuclear powerists + stop everything-ists + small is beautiful-ists + their hungry lawyers) all infiltrated the Democratic Party....

kinda like the religious right and the 'pubs, tho my obs is that was mostly in reaction/backlash to the 'culture wars' over various social issues like casual sex, birthcontrol, abortion, divorce/changing partners like underwear, the surge of LGBT rights/marriage etc + their hungry lawyers, once again - along with 'moral relativism' and judicial activism...

yep - the 60's-early70's was quite a convulsion alright - mostly all i remember in particular was watching tv the day bobby kennedy was whacked, the boston bruins winning a few stanley cups and my parents divorcing = quite a blur it all was...

Forget about traditional liberalism, helping people, and the New Deal from FDR days; the Democratic Party evolved to be the new home of the broad coalition of discontents that came out of California and the west coast. Literally, being a "progressive" and a "liberal" and a Democrat meant that you were a member of the broad coalition of stop everything-ists. Add some rock music, and that was 1972, on the so-called "progressive left" in America.

yep, one of me mother's last comments (of the political sort, last fall) was: "these arent the dems we used to vote for"
her prev was "i will _never_ vote for a 'pub again" just a year before she voted for mccain, but mostly palin, but had intended on going with hilary (NH types, the women anyway, can be somewhat schizo in their politix, w apologies to women ;)

About this time ( the early '70s ), America made a decision, although we didn't know it at the time.... As I said above, when you live through a period of time, the key happenings of that period are not apparent until reflecting upon them, and how they fit together, in hindsight decades later.... But the key decision that America made was to turn-away from atomic power development and to really turn-away from all domestic power development. The key decision was to rely upon the Middle-East for energy, whatever the cost.

Under Nixon in the early '70s and later by Ronald Reagan in the early '80s, the key decision as it unfolded was to let American might ( American military power ) protect the Middle-East in a kind of Pax Americana. In exchange for this protection, the oil in the Middle-East would flow to America and its allies.

The legacy of Pax Americana was oil coming into America and U.S. dollars going out to the Middle-East, especially to Saudi-Arabia. This had a number of odd effects upon markets: a.) The dollar fell against world currencies and gold rose; b.) America became consumptive, in-debt, decaying, politically conservative; while the Middle-East (especially Saudi-Arabia and the Persian Gulf states) became prosperous and even mighty; c.) Inflation ravaged the Western economies, and the inflation accelerated;

i assume it was against this backdrop that PublicService NH (the major electric utility at the time) decided to proceed with construction of the the seabrook nuke station - like a lot of people in that era, i was against it, but 'radiation' had nuthin to do with it - altho i was a reader of the mother earth news in them daze, my objection was the concentration of wealth/power in ONE corp entity (chip off the ole block that i am, was the ole mans pet peeve) - but like you, have come to see the reality of the group of protesters in shutting down its construction, and consequently having nearly stopped the whole industry in its tracks - has resulted in a major environmental, monetary and political disaster - but i'm still unabashedly pro-solar - tho i have come to agree with mr c1ue that 'drowning the problem' in .gov money/subsidies isnt the answer...
innovation is... vs the .gov 'picking the winners' ala solyndra, et al

d.) the entire eastern world became prosperous, and the western world fell into recession and decline, literally a darkening sunset; e.) terrorists with new-found wealth and power in the Middle-East began to launch a covert war against the west, especially a covert war against the U.S.

And here we are now, ten years on from 9/11, and locked into a Great Recession with growing poverty and misery,

never mind after having the beltway bozo's blow every chance (along with several TRILLION down the toilet, mostly in trying to buy the votes of the above mentioned bunch) to do something about it? and what did WE get...

its truly sickening and an insult to (some of) our intelligence - but hey!
wouldnt wanna waste a good crisis...

the question is: How do we dig-out? The question really amounts to: What the energy policy of America and the Western World is going to be? How quickly can we develop atomic power? How quickly can we develop our own sources of fossil fuel? How quickly can we build hydro-electric dams? How do we restore the dollar, back the dollar with something real like energy or gold, and what should the monetary policy be so that we never go through a Great Recession like this ever again? How would the solution all fit together and rest upon a base of cheap and abundant domestic energy? Where do we begin? Who will marshal and co-ordinate the effort?

i'm with you on this one, mr steve - buts its become quite clear most of the OWS crowd is to busy contemplating their navels to act coherently/cohesively (and all cynicism aside, i AM a supporter) - but maybe things will start to gel there perty quick - otherwise the lamestream media will be on to the next 'crisis' - that or kim kardashian or maybe lindsey lohans lawyers will need to make a statement about something really important...

We know we have the Eel River in North-western California, and that can be dammed. That would produce enormous hydro-electric power. We have the Fraser River in southern BC, and like the Eel River, that would produce enormous hydro-electric power. We have oil-shale in ND, and that is just now being developed. We have at least one-hundred years of tar sand oil to develop in North-eastern Alberta. We have oil in southern Saskatchewan. We have light sweet oil just offshore of Los Angeles in southern California, and it's in shallow water, too. We have oil in the southern San Joaquin Valley of California. We have an enormous amount of high-pressure deep-water oil, offshore of Louisiana. We have natural gas and oil in the Marcelous (sp?) shale of Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York. There is also coal in Pennsylvania and West Virginia. There is oil shale in Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah, all but undeveloped. Plus, there is more oil to be taken by fracking in Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. There is more oil to be taken in Alaska, especially in the Beaufort Sea and on the North Slope of Alaska by fracking.....

now mr steve - you know as well as i that NONE of these options are feasible, given the fact that global warming is the ONLY perogative of the present occupants of the EPA and just because of the inconvenient truth that al gore's 26-THOUSAND sqft mansion needs to be air conditioned and heated, doesnt mean that we need to get all radical with oil drillin - esp since warren buffet needs to make a buck or 2 with his new train set, and doesnt want any pipeline giving him any competition...

Plus, there is atomic energy--- America's ace-in-the-hole.

guess we're gonna outsource/hand-over that one to the chinese too - maybe they'll give us a deal on 'discount' nukes, just like they gave the DOD on all them aircraft parts....

The best way to dig-out of this Great Recession is to abolish the EPA, and to get on with the job of developing energy from all sources, as soon as possible. There is no shortage of energy in North America. It would seem that the more we explore for energy in our own backyard, the more energy we find to develop.... And this is how America became great in the past; i.e, by doing the impossible and doing the impossible on a scale that was unimaginable.

ah but that was back in the good ole days, mr steve - could you just imagine trying to build the USA in today's "lax regulatory environment" ?

we'd all still be living in mud and grass huts, huddled around a campfire burning grass n twigs, because cutting trees for fuel 'wood' be un-sustainable, dont ya know...

Maybe the Occupy Wall Street protesters should move their protest to Washington and camp in front of the EPA Building there. Not that the corruption and greed on Wall Street is not an issue, but isn't the arrogance and over-reach of the EPA a greater issue? Yes, Wall Street has damaged the middle class, but hasn't the EPA by artificially creating shortages of urban land, housing, energy, water, resources, and jobs damaged the middle class even more?

LEAN FORWARD.

i'm with you there again, mr steve - and thanks for the history lesson.

am also betting the history professor is going to make the grade, with any luck at all....

then we might have some real hope for change.

[lektrode]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

This has been making the rounds and is just sickening:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJmmnMkuEM

UN-BELIEV-ABLE!
would bet that cop will soon be regretting that move and should be s__tcanned.
there's no possible excuse for that kind of unprovoked assault on the citizenry!

Also, this is interesting:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/CLGF-msnbc.pdf

eye smell a rat here:

The memo also asserts that Democratic victories in 2012 would be detrimental for Wall Street and targets specific races in which it says Wall Street would benefit by electing Republicans instead.

yeah right - after they got everything they've ever desired out of the dems, since 1913, it seems to me...
time for a new batch of congressional whores, the old ones are spent, getting uppity (too expensive)
that and the lamestream media smear machine is in HIGH GEAR, take-no-prisoners mode once again.

from this story: http://upwithchrishayes.msnbc.msn.co...l-street-video

Business as usual...

aint _that_ the truth, as inconvenient - for them - as it may be.

[lektrode]

Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD

More fun with police 'breakup of dissident protests':

http://felixsalmon.tumblr.com/post/1...-of-people-who

‘You want to get arrested?’ And he pushed me up against the wall.”

Retired New York Supreme Court Judge Karen Smith, working as a legal observer after the raids on Zucotti Park this Tuesday

now _this_ is getting serious/ugly.
something tells me its going to get worse before it gets better...