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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
I wonder if the Arab league can offer any help? -
Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
was afraid this would happen = too many 'irons in the fire' for the message to be effective
methinks as the tone swerved left it started to turn-off the center-right and mostly silent majority
wheres dcarrigg - he has a great sense of observation on stuff like this...
barts graphic he uploaded the other day is quite enlightening as wellComment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
OWS 'Day of Action' to crush NY Stock Exchange
http://rt.com/usa/news/n17-ows-occupy-nyc-531/Comment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
at the rate things are (apparently) deteriorating, this looks to happen anyway - too bad they wont likely have had a GD thing to do with it, but you can bet they will be _blamed_ for it....Originally posted by RussianTv news
why i say that this otherwise very worthy cause has been hijacked/mis-directed by the usual suspects on the left = very sad to see this happen and all its going to hurt is the poor schmucks with 401-k's and the now critically underfunded pension-class... but i'm sure GS/JPM et al will make it work out just fine for their year-end bonus pools....Comment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
http://vueweekly.com/front/story/whe..._go_from_here/
In Canada, our ultra left wing semi independent newspapers are reporting it
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
Well, as I see it, the main group in NYC has kept the message right for the most part. Some of the splinter groups around the world have not and have indeed turned left - if that's what you want to call a women/trans/genderqueer conference.Originally posted by lektrode View Post
To me this is the split that matters:
60's-style identity politics |vs.| 30's-style economic politics
Too many of the occupy groups are drifting into the 60's camp. That's a camp that looses. Polls will show you that the 30's camp wins.
Put another way, as soon as you identify as a race/gender/other subgroup, you loose. As long as you identify as 99%, you win. And here's the top article on Google News as I write during lunch.
OWS isn't done yet. It may wane as winter takes hold. But as long as youth unemployment, debt burdens and the GINI index are this high, it's not going away.
As government tries to 'cut the deficit' (read lay people off, cut payments to businesses, and cut salaries) things will get worse.
Sometimes it shocks me that we somehow let the bean-counters and egg-heads take over. Rather than work towards a vision of the future, we actually listen to the "excel army" of numbnuts that think because they have a VB macro they can predict the future.
These same "accountants" projected a $5 trillon surplus by now not twenty years ago. Now they predict doom twenty years from now. May as well ask the magic 8-ball. It's no way to make sound policy. The problem is that it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy if you just roll out austerity full-force.
Sometimes you have to scrimp and save to budget as a family. But sometimes you've got to leave the kids with your sister and buy a bottle of wine even if you can't afford it. Otherwise life's not worth living. Egg-heads and bean-counters want to ban wine. People will become miserable. Unrest is a natural result.
So congress right now with it's 9% approval rating awaits the decision of a supercommittee to which it abdicated legislative authority.
The glorious supercommittee will decide how to balance a scale between laying off employees in a time of the highest unemployment in decades, cutting contracts to businesses, and taking a chunk out of seniors in Medicare and Social Security. All because we absolutely cannot put tax rates back to pre-Bush W. levels. That would hurt "job-creators."
Meanwhile, the big-think plan of our president is trade deals with Columbia and South Korea to outsource more jobs in tandem with a payroll tax cut to put more pressure to reduce Social Security and Medicare benefits down the road. This is supposedly a "jobs bill."
It'd be funny if it weren't so damn true.
Meanwhile, in Europe, two countries have just been taken over by bankers without any democratic referendum. Interest rates are climbing quickly in Spain and to a lesser extent, France, the Netherlands and Austria as well. They're going to need a lot of bankers to install as Prime Ministers before this is all over.
Here's a fundamental question: Do markets exist to serve people, or do people exist to serve markets?
Here's another question: Is a market truly "free" if it's manipulated to serve the financial economy at the expense of everyone else?
Here's some more questions: Should governments be taken over by technocrat economists who roll in and rob from students, employees, and seniors to pay banks simply because a debt was due? Or should the banks have to eat it?
So far the only choice has been to rob students, employees and seniors. All this as bankers sit pretty across the world with bigger bonuses than ever.
No, the rage ain't goin' 'way.
Sometimes it feels like we're living in a parallel universe. It's all so unbelievable. All I can think is: "Holy $#1t! It Keeps Getting Weirder!" Consider the following:
In this universe, there is OWS.
In this universe, Mike Tyson actually makes fun of a front-runner presidential candidate for being too crazy!
In this universe Lyndon LaRouche is right and all the politicians in congress are wrong!
In this universe A communist revolution in the US is more popular than the US congress!
All of this is unprecedented. We live in strange times indeed.
If OWS does nothing else, it will have changed the conversation away from austerity for a moment in time. It also proved that people can get organized, get out, and go worldwide quickly when they agree on something.
Inevitably the people staying in the park will be more extreme than the people who just visit. That creates some of the problem. Nothing is perfect. But I for one am impressed at the size and effect of this thing. Just 3 months ago, Don and I were speculating that it may be a lone man with a kid and a stroller. It has certainly proved to be more than that.Last edited by dcarrigg; November 17, 2011, 06:43 PM.Comment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
BRILLIANT summation, dc = absolutely spot on....
1 point tho: a couple months ago, after it got rolling, my thinking was that this could end up with a OWS group in every major metro area - little did i think about it going global - which appears to be the case - starting with the arab spring, eh?
now i know why you 'make the big bux' ;)
more later, gotta go cut some wires, turn some screws and finish movin rocks out in the backyard while the wx cooperates.Comment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
Ed Lee, the mayor of San Francisco, has ordered the Occupy Wall Street protesters to be evicted from their encampment in the city because of public health concerns: some of the protesters have lice and ticks, fleas, disease, and smell.
Now that the professional bums ( wing-nuts ) on the extreme side of the left-wing, including aging hippies and pot-heads, druggies, greenies, and motor-cycle bums from a prior era, have taken over the OWS protests, the credible message of the protests has been diminished and diluted..... So here we are now with the progressive and tolerant mayor of San Francisco ordering the removal of OWS protesters and their encampment in Justin Herman Plaza in order to protect public health and public sanitation in the city.
The protesters have done their cause(s), whatever they are at this point, a dis-service.Last edited by Starving Steve; November 17, 2011, 05:33 PM.Comment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
The “old hippie” meme won’t stick.
It’s sloppy propaganda, humorous to watch.
Lice, B.O., and Woodstock squalor!
Friends who have spent a few days at OWS in NYC say they couldn’t smell a thing.
I want 10 “Future Bums of America” t-shirts to give out as Christmas presents.Comment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
I was a protester at UC Berkeley in the late 1960s, and what did our protests accomplish?Originally posted by Thailandnotes View Post
1.) The pot-heads took over and paved the way for the gangsters we have now in Mexico and America.
2.) The "Down With the Shah" protesters at UC got into Tehran, toppled the regime in Iran, and put the world's worst and most ruthless gangsters into power--- and there they remain unto this day. Iran's atomic bomb comes next.
3.) The UC bunch ( including myself ) unwittingly helped to put Ronald Reagan into the White House. The legacy of Reagan and Reaganomics is precisely the mess that we have now in the Great Recession: a.) trickle-down economics; b.) deficits; c.) the real estate bubble and the bubble economy; d.) foreign adventures; e.) de-regulation including the love-in between Wall Street and the big banks; f.) zero interest rates; g.) the bloated military; i.) boosterism, nationalism, xenophobia, and English-only; j.) class warfare and class resentment; k.) corporatism and capitalist solutions for everything, including healthcare.
4.) The greenies, especially the greenies from UC Berkeley, got into power; they started the EPA in Washington; they launched a war against atomic power plants, a war against oil/gas development, a war on coal, a war on dams, and a war on growth, and a war on people.
And one more footnote just to underscore the point I am making about the protest movements from 1966-to date: The students that I protested with were, for the most part, filthy pigs. They existed from protest-to-protest, stoned-out on pot or drugs, offered no constructive and workable plan for the world, and taunted the police and the establishment, all for meaningless photo-ops in the news..... Sad to say, nothing much has changed from 1966 until now, except that the world has become even worse. Compare, for example, the Middle-East now to what it was like a generation ago, and the point of the decline could not become more apparent.
Look, when the Health Department in San Francisco orders the OWS encampment closed, what does that tell you about the protesters? Even Mayor Ed Lee's patience has run-out.Last edited by Starving Steve; November 17, 2011, 11:06 PM.Comment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
oh mr steve, you've done it again!
gawd i love yer posts! (seriously...)
Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
+1 (well.. am agreeing on #4 anyway, not yer opener.. ;)
simply AMAZING, isnt it? dunno if you remember seeing the PBS special on the '60s, aired a couple years back?
made me think how glad i was to be a '58 model, '76 HS grad and missed that whole era - hell, even missed the draft (after ole tricky dick ended it, along with that .mil/industrial-complex fiasco known as vietnam)
and the war on nuke plants?
led us STRAIGHT TO ENDLESS WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST OVER OIL - did it not?
had The US been able to fully develop our potential in this area, we mightve even have had roads all choked up with electric car traffic by now, fer chrisakes!
and hey! these might not have ended up being the 'hot' new xmas gift this year over in japan, even?
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-n...unter--anyone-
anyway... am still waiting on your input on this one:
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...cked-off-in-Q8 (see my first reply on it ;)Last edited by lektrode; November 18, 2011, 09:23 AM.Comment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
The interesting thing is that: by responding to overtly peaceful protests with violent evictions, as well as studied ignorance, the stage is being set for the next step.
This next step when some fraction of otherwise peaceful protesters desiring change via politics, decide that change will only occur via violence.Comment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
yep... sigh... its beginning to get depressing - the left has their full playbook on display now, eh?
welcome comrades, to the big apple:
this ones a beauty...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_1...lice-violence/
Originally posted by cbs news
uh... i think i'm gonna leave the rest of that one for the licking... i mean CLIK'gComment
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Re: Occupy Wall Street Protestors evicted by NYPD
It is said that hindsight is always 20/20: Now being 63 and looking back to the 1960s, I remember how the anti-war movement in the late 1960s got way off-base when it united with the new (at that time) environmental movement. I remember those days well:Originally posted by lektrode View Post
The Sierra Club was founded to emulate the conservation efforts of John Muir in the early 20th Century. Literally, the Sierra Club was all about saving the redwoods and saving the environment in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. Greenpeace was on its thing about saving the whales. The Friends of the Earth wanted to go back to the land, found communal farms, do everything in small ways and to live in harmony with nature by becoming "small and beautiful".
About that time, the late 1960s, a book was published; I believe the author was Desmond and the title was: The Destruction of California. And in that book, the author advocated that environmentalists and preservationists direct their efforts to stopping and blocking all development, literally everything. Desmond even proposed that environmentalists become subversive and to gum-up all growth development proposals with frivolous lawsuits.... This book became the bible of the new environmental movement.
So by 1969, the anti-war movement became the peace movement which was united with the preservationist movement--- all of this seemed quite reasonable to me and to everyone around me. After all, the Vietnam War was all about destroying everything, so how could the anti-war movement not unite with the preservationist movement? It was a marriage made in heaven.
So then the preservationist movement united with Greenpeace and the latter's "Save the Whales". Since whales were highly developed air-breathing animals, how could anyone in the preservationist movement oppose saving the whales? And then the preservationist movement advocated preserving bio-diversity, which also made sense, because who could oppose saving giant redwood trees, saving sequoias, saving rare and endangered species like bald eagles and such? .... No-one ( including me ) could imagine at that time that the preservationist movement would be about saving "rare and endangered" sand flies, field-mice, jellyfish, weeds and such.
About 1970 or so, the peace movement ( the anti-war movement ) united with the anti-nuclear movement because nuclear power was atomic power, and atomic power had to do with E=mc^2 and atomic bombs. Since the peace movement was about preservation, the peace movement became the anti-nuclear power movement. In fact, nuclear power plants were deemed, "nukes", as in the military jargon for atomic bombs.
About 1972, this broad coalition of (pacifists + preservationists + radical environmentalists + conservationists + anti-nuclear powerists + stop everything-ists + small is beautiful-ists + their hungry lawyers) all infiltrated the Democratic Party.... Forget about traditional liberalism, helping people, and the New Deal from FDR days; the Democratic Party evolved to be the new home of the broad coalition of discontents that came out of California and the west coast. Literally, being a "progressive" and a "liberal" and a Democrat meant that you were a member of the broad coalition of stop everything-ists. Add some rock music, and that was 1972, on the so-called "progressive left" in America.
About this time ( the early '70s ), America made a decision, although we didn't know it at the time.... As I said above, when you live through a period of time, the key happenings of that period are not apparent until reflecting upon them, and how they fit together, in hindsight decades later.... But the key decision that America made was to turn-away from atomic power development and to really turn-away from all domestic power development. The key decision was to rely upon the Middle-East for energy, whatever the cost.
Under Nixon in the early '70s and later by Ronald Reagan in the early '80s, the key decision as it unfolded was to let American might ( American military power ) protect the Middle-East in a kind of Pax Americana. In exchange for this protection, the oil in the Middle-East would flow to America and its allies.
The legacy of Pax Americana was oil coming into America and U.S. dollars going out to the Middle-East, especially to Saudi-Arabia. This had a number of odd effects upon markets: a.) The dollar fell against world currencies and gold rose; b.) America became consumptive, in-debt, decaying, politically conservative; while the Middle-East (especially Saudi-Arabia and the Persian Gulf states) became prosperous and even mighty; c.) Inflation ravaged the Western economies, and the inflation accelerated; d.) the entire eastern world became prosperous, and the western world fell into recession and decline, literally a darkening sunset; e.) terrorists with new-found wealth and power in the Middle-East began to launch a covert war against the west, especially a covert war against the U.S.
And here we are now, ten years on from 9/11, and locked into a Great Recession with growing poverty and misery, the question is: How do we dig-out? The question really amounts to: What the energy policy of America and the Western World is going to be? How quickly can we develop atomic power? How quickly can we develop our own sources of fossil fuel? How quickly can we build hydro-electric dams? How do we restore the dollar, back the dollar with something real like energy or gold, and what should the monetary policy be so that we never go through a Great Recession like this ever again? How would the solution all fit together and rest upon a base of cheap and abundant domestic energy? Where do we begin? Who will marshal and co-ordinate the effort?
We know we have the Eel River in North-western California, and that can be dammed. That would produce enormous hydro-electric power. We have the Fraser River in southern BC, and like the Eel River, that would produce enormous hydro-electric power. We have oil-shale in ND, and that is just now being developed. We have at least one-hundred years of tar sand oil to develop in North-eastern Alberta. We have oil in southern Saskatchewan. We have light sweet oil just offshore of Los Angeles in southern California, and it's in shallow water, too. We have oil in the southern San Joaquin Valley of California. We have an enormous amount of high-pressure deep-water oil, offshore of Louisiana. We have natural gas and oil in the Marcelous (sp?) shale of Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York. There is also coal in Pennsylvania and West Virginia. There is oil shale in Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah, all but undeveloped. Plus, there is more oil to be taken by fracking in Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. There is more oil to be taken in Alaska, especially in the Beaufort Sea and on the North Slope of Alaska by fracking..... Plus, there is atomic energy--- America's ace-in-the-hole.
The best way to dig-out of this Great Recession is to abolish the EPA, and to get on with the job of developing energy from all sources, as soon as possible. There is no shortage of energy in North America. It would seem that the more we explore for energy in our own backyard, the more energy we find to develop.... And this is how America became great in the past; i.e, by doing the impossible and doing the impossible on a scale that was unimaginable.
Maybe the Occupy Wall Street protesters should move their protest to Washington and camp in front of the EPA Building there. Not that the corruption and greed on Wall Street is not an issue, but isn't the arrogance and over-reach of the EPA a greater issue? Yes, Wall Street has damaged the middle class, but hasn't the EPA by artificially creating shortages of urban land, housing, energy, water, resources, and jobs damaged the middle class even more?
LEAN FORWARD.Last edited by Starving Steve; November 18, 2011, 10:37 PM.Comment
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