Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

[lektrode]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

yeah, no kidding. WTF kind of wealth is an avge $170k? ...

figger its likely just enuf to get one excluded from _any_ kind of .gov benefits whatsoever = the middleclass wasteland, where one is 'too rich' to qualify for 'low income' status, whilst being TOO POOR to do much sides go bankrupt with the first unplanned visit to the hospital?

and for this, i'm paying 5grand/year for 'health insurance' ....

[lektrode]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

Yeah, but that $169,000 doesn't include the implied wealth of social security benefits and subsidized health care.

The average lifetime Social Security benefit for a couple is $555,000. The lifetime Medicare benefit is $355,000. And those numbers don't include cost of living increases that are to come. Additionally, asset tests for public assistance have been eliminated. A millionaire can qualify for public assistance if his income is low enough.

I'd say the average senior is in descent, though by no means stellar shape.

well for my mother, who basically 'qualified' (if ya wanna call it that) for all the benefits noted above and all was working out pretty well (in NH, where the cost of living for the retiree-class is perhaps The Best of all the states)

right up til that 'unplanned visit' to the hospital, this past january, where the flu morphed into pneumonia, and even _with_ all the benefits noted above - for want of a simple assist to the toilet, discovered that 'decent, by no means stellar' can still mean a death sentence, if one should find oneself indigent by the time one reaches their 60's = why its a cruel joke on the working class, the discussions of raising the retirement age to the 70's - this might work out ok for the white collar set, but for anybody who _works_ for a living (vs sits on their ass in an air-conditioned, well-lit office) ?

a very cruel joke indeed....

[Kadriana]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

figger its likely just enuf to get one excluded from _any_ kind of .gov benefits whatsoever = the middleclass wasteland, where one is 'too rich' to qualify for 'low income' status, whilst being TOO POOR to do much sides go bankrupt with the first unplanned visit to the hospital?

and for this, i'm paying 5grand/year for 'health insurance' ....

Health care and college costs for my children are the only reason why I feel like I have to become part of the 1%. I worry I won't be able to afford either if I don't. I'm not sure it's even possible at this point though.

[lektrode]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

wouldnt worry about it, ms K - if you didnt graduate from an ivyleague school 20years ago with an econ (or law) degree - or you didnt buy 100,000 shares of GOOG in 2004 = why worry?

buying more AU, AG (and copper-jacketed lead) seems like the only way to go these daze...

[doom&gloom]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

Yeah, but that $169,000 doesn't include the implied wealth of social security benefits and subsidized health care.

The average lifetime Social Security benefit for a couple is $555,000. The lifetime Medicare benefit is $355,000. And those numbers don't include cost of living increases that are to come. Additionally, asset tests for public assistance have been eliminated. A millionaire can qualify for public assistance if his income is low enough.

I'd say the average senior is in descent, though by no means stellar shape.

I dunno if you can really look at it that way. My mother is alive at 86, and probably has a few more years to go. My father passed at 68, and basically collected nothing. Just an example.

Plus, one cannot know what the "real" value of those bennies will be, since there is no question they cannot continue to be paid at their present rates, and HC "rationing" of some form is bound to come eventually.

I was with my mom at the doctor the other week chatting with another couple there for the husband. He looked like crap, and had just had knee replacement not long ago. But he is also on dialysis, which though I forget the monthly figure, is excpetionally expensive and all billed out to Medicare. Meanwhile they were making plans to go to their 2nd home in AZ. I simply cannot see the system continuing that way where the collective pays for the (most probably) irresponsible while they go off and enjoy their golden years. The system will break before then.

[lektrode]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

........go to their 2nd home in AZ. I simply cannot see the system continuing that way where the collective pays for the (most probably) irresponsible while they go off and enjoy their golden years. The system will break before then.

while one cant discern the level of wealth merely by owning a 2nd home, as back in the day my parents had one (while renting the first) most 2nd houses were typically modest affairs (the ole man paid 500 for the lot in NH and 9500 more for the house, in 1965), the proverbial 'cabin in the woods' - somehow over the past 30 years or so, the 'cabin' has morphed into the 5, 8, or TEN THOUSAND sq foot 'cottage', as per rocky mtn standards - and somewhere there needs to be a line drawn on being able to collect soc-sec or medicare/caid

i also happen to think that in an age when guys who throw balls back n forth across a field (and never mind the exec suite people) are getting paid 10's of millions per year - and are paying FICA on only the first 106k ?

something is clearly broken - and whats that saying that we've been hearing lately?

DEBTS THAT ARE UNPAYABLE, wont be?

Meanwhile back at the ranch...

Average:

[jiimbergin]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

169,000 net worth at 65 means you're basically broke. Your “savings” are your house, you have almost nothing in the bank.

+1

[lektrode]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

It's funny. I didn't read the data thinking about divide-and-conquer. I mostly read it and thought - "Gee, the youth get saddled with debt early and missed out on the housing bonanza. This, combined with lower median wages, leaves them in a particularly tough spot and puts the middle class at further risk moving forward."

I can see how one would have read it as a divisive piece now. I don't feel good about that.

dont go gettin all guilt-trippin on us now, dc

as eye see it, DIVIDE AND CONQUER = precisely what is required.

first thing that needs to be divided: the ignorant, brainwashed masses who are caught up/entranced by the daily BS that pukes forth from the lamestream media, breathlessly 'informing' us about kim kardashian's upcoming divorce, that is appearing _daily_ IN EVERY NEWSPAPER eye have looked at over the past week - along with the now-disgustingly repetitive 'news' that lindsey lohan has 'served' all of 75minutes of her latest 30day sentence???

we need to divide this crowd from
We The People Who Are Willing To Make A DECiSION that we are mad as hell, and we are NOT GOING TO ACCEPT IT any more.

we need to DIVIDE THE 535 CLOWNS in the beltway into MAKING A STAND against those that have sold The Rest of Us down the river for another term in office.

and finally WE NEED TO CONQUER the Status Quo, as the same ole same ole BS that got us here IS NO LONGER GETTING IT DONE

so hey - divide away, yer stuff is excellent, keep it up.

[nedtheguy]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

redacted

[astonas]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

"Divide and conquer"? No man -- that division is real, and "it" is on!. (Tongue sorta in cheek; sorta not.)

Yeah, I have to say you're far from alone. Among the forty-and-under set I know, there is an incredibly deep sense of disenfranchisement and betrayal -- and a lot more quiet knife-sharpening than loud complaining. It is not so much a sense that a generational war is coming soon, but rather a general understanding that one has already been underway for decades, with the future earnings of the younger generations being raided even during their very childhood. Baby boomers may look back over their lives and think that except for recent years, they have largely invested the debt to build up a prosperous nation, but that is about as far from the way other generations see it as could be.

I'm quite wondering how it winds up shaking out. I read Laurence J. Kotlikoff's book "The Coming Generational Storm: What You Need to Know about America's Economic Future" when it first came out in 2005, and remember thinking it was somewhat alarmist, even over-the-top. But when I talk to younger people these days, I now think he's really underestimating just how much anger there is. Of course, the debt and political problems have also been larger than he expected.

I suspect that if there aren't cuts of a magnitude greater than is politically conceivable (i.e., far deeper even than the current debt commission would default to) to Social Security, Medicare, and Defense, with similarly large tax hikes, boomers should probably expect those sharpened knives to show up in the backs of whatever social programs they are currently trying to save, starting the moment their political power wanes. That could mean a full dismantling of the Social Security and Medicare programs, with next-to-nothing replacing them, even for people currently dependent solely on them. The requisite reversal of the moral imperative has already begun (a perspective shift from "protecting the innocent poor" to "sticking it to those greedy boomers"). As far as literal knives, well, I'm sure assisted suicide laws will become more common as well, and I do expect most families to have increasingly strained relations as this becomes a more prominent issue.

Certainly not a fun few decades ahead, by any standard.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

It’s hard to find a coherent essay on this. The math is always skewed to fit the author’s ideology. One writer claims the average retiree receives less social security than he or she paid in. The next claims social security is a Ponzi scheme. What’s clear to me is that healthcare costs and military spending are crippling the economy more than anything else. Social security is irrelevant by comparison.

What I really find depressing is to watch my peer's children graduate from college and find out how bleak things are. These are very bright kids majoring in hard stuff who in any other decade of my life would have been snapped up.

[Sutter Cane]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

It’s hard to find a coherent essay on this. The math is always skewed to fit the author’s ideology. One writer claims the average retiree receives less social security than he or she paid in. The next claims social security is a Ponzi scheme.

On that note, here's a writer claiming that this report is bunk:

Pew Report on Young-Old Wealth Gap is Misleading and Divisive; Could Fuel Intergenerational Class War

Those gunning for Social Security are already using the study to divide the "other 99 percent." November 7, 2011 |

Photo Credit: Tom Giebel

A new study purporting to show that older households are doing much better than younger ones in terms of wealth and income threatens to spark an intergenerational class war, pitting Americans of different ages – people who have all been devastated by the crash caused by Wall Street's recklessness -- against one another. But there are serious flaws in how the research is being interpreted.

The analysis, by Pew Research, is being spun as evidence that the government “spends too much” on the elderly while leaving younger Americans hanging out to dry. It's already becoming another weapon in the corporate right's long-running battle against Social Security.

What’s clear to me is that healthcare costs and military spending are crippling the economy more than anything else. Social security is irrelevant by comparison.

Yes, and we'll be putting all the olds on ice floes before we make any cuts to the military. That's the real "third rail" that nobody can touch, not SS. Note how the recent injuries to OWS protesters were a big deal when those injured were veterans. If an average joe gets sent to the hospital - much less outrage. Similarly, there won't be any outrage over seniors on cat food, but god forbid we cut back on our drone strikes.

[Kadriana]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

This is making the rounds on facebook. Looks like the fight is here.

[lektrode]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

again this is another issue that could/should be addressed with the 'user fees' - FICA, in this case - being set to appropriate levels - tell me how it is 'fair' to have people making hundreds of thousands, to TENS OF MILLIONS and only paying the FICA tax on the first 106k ?

and considering that 'social security' is or was setup to be 'insurance against being too old/incapacitated' to feed/house oneself, how is it 'fair' that people with 6figure incomes (never mind assets in 7+ figures) in retirement qualify to collect soc-sec and/or medicare?

and i have no patience/sympathy for those that claim that 'because they paid into it' they are entitled to collect from it, either - they paid for home, auto, health, liability, business insurance too, but does that mean that they are entitled to some payout from those, just because they paid into it?

and dont paint me as some kind of wealth/class-warfare type either - this is an issue of economic sanity and the prime example of precisely whats broken in the federal budget equation

[nedtheguy]

Re: Wealth Disparity between Young and Old at Highest Level Ever

redacted