The difference between Chinese and US standards.

[touchring]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...684665.graphic

[mooncliff]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

Even during the Olympics, when they had turned off as many things as possible, the air pollution was unbelievable. When I opened the balcony door, the stench of sulfur was amazing. I assumed that was from burning coal. You couldn't see more than a few blocks. It took me several hours to get used to it, during which time I was choking and gagging. Next time I go, I will be sure to go when it is windy and clear.

[touchring]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

Even during the Olympics, when they had turned off as many things as possible, the air pollution was unbelievable. When I opened the balcony door, the stench of sulfur was amazing. I assumed that was from burning coal. You couldn't see more than a few blocks. It took me several hours to get used to it, during which time I was choking and gagging. Next time I go, I will be sure to go when it is windy and clear.

You can use one of these 3m respirators.

[charliebrown]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

A few years ago I went to a "China" seminar at our local public library. It was given by a Chinese born and raised professor who now has a gig at the University of Illinois. The talk basically went China Great, China, China China, Great, Great, China.
You get the picture.

After the end of the lecture, someone asked "when are you going to move back?" He said never, I can't breathe there.

For all of you who bash the EPA, this should be a warning. A balance must be struck somewhere. Having dirty air has a high price. I spent a few days in 2000 in Lima Peru. On bad days, my eyes hurt, and my lungs got congested and I had shortness of breath.


From a casual observation, the pollution did not seem to be coming from point sources (large industrial pollution) but from the many diesel powered, and untuned gasoline engines being driven about. I saw blue and black clouds coming from the majority of vehicles.

[jpatter666]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

We were in Beijing in 2007 -- when we first arrived, we had no problems breathing and I wondered what all the fuss was about.

Traveled around China for a few weeks, arriving back in Beijing. This time the air was noxious and my wife and I were still having some minor lung issues months afterwards even though we were only there a few days. Turned out, when we arrived the first time, storms had just sweep through the city moving out most of the polluted air.

I still remember Chengdu -- look up, blue sky. Look in front of you and visibility ended within a few hundred yards.

[touchring]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

After the end of the lecture, someone asked "when are you going to move back?" He said never, I can't breathe there.

For all of the trash the EPA people this should be a warning. A balance must be struck somewhere. Having dirty air has a high price. I spent a few days in 2000 in Lima Peru. On bad days, my eyes hurt, and my lungs got congested and I had shortness of breath.

I believe the problem is caused by corruption and degradation of morality resulting in lack of standards or rather wanton treatment of waste rather than progress per se.

Many countries had progress, Taiwan, Korea, Japan but none got polluted even a fifth as badly as China had anytime in their history.

[Fox]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

So when does China's cancer (and death rate) start to exceed its population growth rate?

Did a bit of research and stumbled across this. Good for a laugh.
China's Soaring Cancer Rates
Ya china's cancer rate is because they're eating more like North Americans. It has nothing to do with that Yellow pale the Chinese government is encouraging everyone to exercise more in. CBS: agenda or just stupid?

Here's something with a little more substance to it
Cancer is now the leading cause of death in China

The paper dragon will go down hacking and wheezing

[touchring]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

So when does China's cancer (and death rate) start to exceed its population growth rate?

Did a bit of research and stumbled across this. Good for a laugh.
China's Soaring Cancer Rates
Ya china's cancer rate is because they're eating more like North Americans. It has nothing to do with that Yellow pale the Chinese government is encouraging everyone to exercise more in. CBS: agenda or just stupid?

Here's something with a little more substance to it
Cancer is now the leading cause of death in China

The paper dragon will go down hacking and wheezing

How do you know this isn't part of a strategy to reduce overpopulation?

[wayiwalk]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

I was thinking about this the other day, in terms of striking a balance between regs and industrial production.

Right now, we have regulations that have helped get us to a point where the air, land and waters in this country are relatively clean, and much cleaner than they were 30 years ago. I think that the regulatory teeth are there to provide the controls needed for industry to minimize adverse impacts.

So - how about a freeze on regs that would make existing regs more strigent? I would say go all out for enforcement of existing regs - the state of the art of our factory emssions controls are capable of providing the clean air we need - do buearocrats need to keep the increasing pressure on business?

A related aside - my wife used to work at the "GDEPA!"*

She told me one thing one influential coworker used to remark, "if our laboratory analytical procedures can improve and contaminants can be measured to lower and lower concentrations in the environment, then it should be regulated down to those levels".

Ugh. An endless downward spiral....but that is the mentality of some at the EPA.

* My wife and I were sitting in our backyard one day (more than 16 years ago). We heard a neighbor who was using some poorly performing deck stain exclaim, "Got-dammed EPA!" Thereafter GDEPA became our new acronym for the agency.

I'm all for enforcing existing regs - there's no doubt that there are people who would break the present laws if they could - but we also have to make sure that we aren't 1) exporting the pollution overseas 2) putting our own citizens out of work.

Drive through the older towns in upstate NY through the light industrial districts and you'll pass business after business that has closed down. Businesses are more likely to have become lax with their practices as they are going bankrupt. If regulators were wise they'd realize that profitable, healthy businesses are more likely to be able to meet existing standards. Gov't budgets don't need any more abandoned industrial sites.

[Fox]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

ya know, I was thinking that as well.

And the advantage is that sick people don't revolt nearly as much as the starving or exploited.

but personally I submit to:
"Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity"

[don]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

I have a distant long gone relative who helped to engineer a profitable means to process soda ash back in the day. It made him a wealthy man - one of the inventor exceptions. The pilot plant was on a lake in upstate New York. Years later that lake was the first to set on fire. Today the lake has come back, to much of its pre-soda ash state. The principle reason being the plant closed down. How much of our today's clean air and water have to do with American production interests pulling out and investing in China?

First recorded photo of smog in Los Angeles, 1943

On July 26, 1943, in the midst of World War II, Los Angeles was attacked -- not by a foreign enemy, but a domestic one -- smog. The Los Angeles Times reported that a pall of smoke and fumes descended on downtown, cutting visibility to three blocks. Striking in the midst of a heat wave, the "gas attack" was nearly unbearable, gripping workers and residents with an eye-stinging, throat-scraping sensation. It also left them with a realization that something had gone terribly wrong in their city, prized for its sunny climate.

The following day, city officials pointed the finger at the Southern California Gas Co.'s. Aliso Street plant, which manufactured butadiene, an ingredient in synthetic rubber. Public pressure temporarily shuttered the plant, but the gas attacks persisted, proving that it was not the prime culprit.

In 1955, when modern ozone monitoring began, Southland residents suffered the highest ozone level ever recorded -- 0.68 parts per million in downtown Los Angeles -- nearly three times the highest level in 1996.




doctor, will I be able to get an iron lung?

no problem, as long as you are a registered voter in the county of los angeles

[cjppjc]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

I have a distant long gone relative who helped to engineer a profitable means to process soda ash back in the day. It made him a wealthy man - one of the inventor exceptions. The pilot plant was on a lake in upstate New York. Years later that lake was the first to set on fire. Today the lake has come back, to much of its pre-soda ash state. The principle reason being the plant closed down. How much of our today's clean air and water have to do with American production interests pulling out and investing in China?


[/LEFT]
[/CENTER]

What a great question. I love when that happens.

[touchring]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

What a great question. I love when that happens.

The technology available today to process industrial waste is a lot more advance than 70 years ago.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

I believe the problem is caused by corruption and degradation of morality resulting in lack of standards or rather wanton treatment of waste rather than progress per se.

Many countries had progress, Taiwan, Korea, Japan but none got polluted even a fifth as badly as China had anytime in their history.

Is that REALLY the case if we look back from 1945 onwards?

I thought Godzilla in Japan is an indirect entertainment/media response to some quite horrific pollution issues Japan ignored/lied/faced when it rebuilt and reindustrialized post WWII?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

I'm not trying to excuse Chinese pollution.....in fact I'm quite grateful we have such clean air/water way down here in NZ.....

Maybe the question should be is there a reasonably accurate pollution/economic development curve...and what side of the curve is China on all things considered?

[LargoWinch]

Re: The difference between Chinese and US standards.

In the West, we lie about who and how many innocent civilians we kill during our wasteful illegal wars.

Who are we to blame China? We lost the moral high ground ages ago.