iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

[metalman]

Poll for how many itulipers are taking part in OWS protests.

[lektrode]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

not yet, but as my income drops, there soon wont be much else to do...

was out n about the other day and saw 2 youngn's holding an 'occupy' sign and handing out flyers - took the flyer - the other guy standing there refused it - i sez to the young'n "most still dont understand what this is all about" - he sez "yeah, a lot of us dont either" - have ya seen INSIDE JOB? - "no, whats it about" - see that movie, i sez and take a look at a website called http://itulip.com - the website and the movie will answer ALL your questions... "cool, thanks, i will" he said.

it all starts with ONE person taking ONE step forward.

[FRED]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

Poll for how many itulipers are taking part in OWS protests.

The phrase is starting to catch on:

I’ve mentioned previously that I don’t think Occupy Wall Street is about overthrowing capitalism – though certainly that element exists within the movement – but rather about making capitalism work better for workers and ordinary people and businesses outside of the FIRE economy (Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate.) “The problem with capitalism,” G.K. Chesterton once wrote, “is there are too few capitalists.” This is the sentiment driving Occupy Wall Street – at least for the most part.

New Bank of America Fees Good for Consumers and Small Banks, Forbes, Oct. 16, 2011

[jpatter666]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

Hmmm....I know my wife went down to the Wall Street protest to find out what was going on and she ended up doing some education.

Me? In a training class.....

[lakedaemonian]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

Personally, I find the Tea Party(assimilated like the Borg into a franchise of the GOP) and the OWS movement both encouraging and incredibly frustrating.

Where's their "elevator pitch" purpose/objective?

OWS seems like a trade show for people to sell their personal or small group agenda...some of the demands are laughable....others quite frightening.

I also find the anger and resentment directed at OWS and it's supporters by those who are employed and weathering this financial storm well(or well enough for now) disconcerting.

Same goes for the MANY OWS supporters who are VERY quick to arrogantly disparage the Tea Party oblivious to the fact that the OWS movement is at equal or even greater risk of being hijacked much like the Tea Party.

I feel exactly the same way now as I did a number of years ago with the inception of the leaderless Tea Party Movement.

Forget about trying to fight toe to toe with the entrenched Parties and special interests...that would be like the Vietcong trying to fight the combined NATO and Warsaw Pact in Western Europe...a battlefield(proverbial, NOT literal) of the entrenched interests choosing and timing.

With the fast shrinking number of traditional mass media owners "It's the internet stupid".

I think the OWS movement would achieve the greatest return by focusing on a single issue:

Separate candidates/politicians from special interest money(especially FIRE money) by successfully portraying them as political lepers/traitors.

Turn the Consumer Reports like Opensecrets.org campaign contribution $$ data into a political weapon to destroy those who chose special interests over citizens.

Whoever is left will be FAR more likely to represent constituents than the existing system of excessive special interest influence and control.

I have often heard the expression of "How do you un-poison a well?" when referring to the seemingly impossible task(like boiling the ocean) of fixing the broken democracy in the US.

I think the answer is to apply a filter.

Filter out the poison.

Pretty simply really......or am I just being overly optimistic/simplistic/retarded?

Until that starts to happen, I see no reason to get all excited about it....at least a few people are getting off the couch and turning off America's Idol.

Just my 0.02c

[Chris]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

I'll be there - but looking out from the window.

I am sympathetic to the movement. But here in the UK, we've only had the usual suspects from the Socialist Workers Party and a few students who will eventually be come full-time 'activists' (at state expense).

[BK]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

Yes. The current system is dysfunctional. It strikes me as ironic that the Teachers Union has joined in and almost comical..... I'd argue that Wages and benefits of teachers in New York City are only possible under the insanity that is FIRE. Its the Income Taxes of lots of Wall Street related employees that make higher than ever Teacher salaries of the New York City possible.
Wages for Municipalities and States have boomed during the last 20 years thanks to ever expanding Real Estate values. When Real Estate values contract the voters realize that the have been part of a Ponzi scheme.

[wayiwalk]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

I look at it that until the protesters from OWS and protesters from the tea party can see eye to eye on what the problems are, we're no better off than our elected officials from the democrat or republican party solving any problems.....and I think we're a few years off from that.

[flintlock]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

Yes. The current system is dysfunctional. It strikes me as ironic that the Teachers Union has joined in and almost comical..... I'd argue that Wages and benefits of teachers in New York City are only possible under the insanity that is FIRE. Its the Income Taxes of lots of Wall Street related employees that make higher than ever Teacher salaries of the New York City possible.
Wages for Municipalities and States have boomed during the last 20 years thanks to ever expanding Real Estate values. When Real Estate values contract the voters realize that the have been part of a Ponzi scheme.

So true. Many Americans conveniently want to forget they were actually part of the FIRE system, and often benefited from it. My brother would rant and rave about the injustice of it all(FIRE economy, etc) , but really became pissed when I reminded him that his wife with only a High School education just possibly might have been overpaid at her Financing job because of it. Anyone who saw their house value skyrocket and were wise enough to sell at the top has benefited from FIRE. A lot of baby boomers, some of whom's only brilliance was to be born at the right time, have seen unprecedented economic times. Yet they expect our youth to take laying down the fact that they will not see the same boom times. I for one, am well aware that I benefited from an historically unheard of economic boom. But most I talk to are so busy patting themselves on the backs, they could care less about their kids future.

My thinking on these protests run along the lines of Lakedaemonian. A lot of people will hijack this into their own petty cause. The usual anti-capitalists, wealth envy, etc. And of course, many of those doing well now will say " let them eat cake". But so far, I don't think those who have been wronged the most have even been heard from yet. The average American working stiff. Sure, they've been told that they have to learn to change with the times. That they should all have known better than to learn a skilled trade. They should have known that their leaders would sell them out to corporate interests, and send their jobs overseas. That instead of reaping the benefits of a booming economy when workers with their skills became scarce, that they would see laws on immigration ignored and winked at. They should have instead loaded themselves up with massive school debt and got a degree in business or psychology, so they could could see those degrees become as common as a high school diploma. No, nobody questions the fact that maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't be trying to lower our standards to meet the rest of the world, but rather, opt out of that "race to the bottom" instead.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

Excellent points, flintlock. Right now millions of Americans ( and Greeks, and Germans) are realizing they should have done the things on your list of should-have-done items. But they didn't, and now it's too late.

Further, most of these millions did instead what all their trusted authority figures advised them to do. Unlike a smoker who scoffed at his doctor's advice, or a fat man who refused to loose weight, most of these folks did what was widely considered to be the smart thing. Sure there were plenty of spendthrift knuckle-heads, but most folks were not. They worked every day, invested in the safety of their home and 401K, and believed the official predictions of a good outcome.

I guess we'll see what happens when millions of fairly smart and fairly hard working people discover all together they were the "marks" in a giant confidence game, their savings are gone, and they're trapped in a race to the bottom.

[c1ue]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

OWS is a chicken and egg situation.

The strategy thus far is good: to gain recognition and support without providing a specific platform.

But the platform itself is very important.

While the Tea Party from the get-go was a libertarian Judas Goat, it remains to be seen if the OWS is a 'true left' equivalent, or if it actually is a genuine fairness movement.

Certainly some of the commentators I have seen like Chris Hedges (see video below) give me hope that it is the latter.

If so, then it is a movement I would support.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhH...layer_embedded

[Prazak]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

Yes. The current system is dysfunctional. It strikes me as ironic that the Teachers Union has joined in and almost comical..... I'd argue that Wages and benefits of teachers in New York City are only possible under the insanity that is FIRE. Its the Income Taxes of lots of Wall Street related employees that make higher than ever Teacher salaries of the New York City possible.
Wages for Municipalities and States have boomed during the last 20 years thanks to ever expanding Real Estate values. When Real Estate values contract the voters realize that the have been part of a Ponzi scheme.

Yeah, there was a quote recently from our county executive (a Democrat, FWIW) in discussing the ballooning wages and benefits of county employees this past decade, to the effect of "we thought that because we were living next to so many rich people, we must be rich too." It is dispiriting to see what so many in the public sector have to look forward to, after a relatively short and cosseted career, compared to what i, as a small business owner, with no guarantees of success and abundant financial risk, have to provide for myself. That's not to say I don't highly value the public services the county provides -- teachers, firemen, police foremost among them (and DMV employees least among them) -- only that the narrative of the high crimes and misdemeanors of the Masters of the Universe on Wall Street isn't the beginning and end of the story of how we as a society find ourselves where we are. The Tea Party got part of the story right, the OWS people are getting more of the story right, but the saga of greed and irresponsibility runs deeper.

[BK]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

There are lots of Administration jobs in local school systems that pay $95-$120,000 - if you can get you 30 years in you lock in an 80% pension-
80% x $105,000 = $84,000 per year pension. If you retire at 65 and can survive to 79 you collect 14 x $84,000 = $1,176,000 plus Healthcare.

You are a Sucker - in our society if you attempt to survive in Private Enterprise.

There are lots and lots of government jobs that pay $79,0000 plus range - way more that the Median Income.

[touchring]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

There are lots of Administration jobs in local school systems that pay $95-$120,000 - if you can get you 30 years in you lock in an 80% pension-
80% x $105,000 = $84,000 per year pension. If you retire at 65 and can survive to 79 you collect 14 x $84,000 = $1,176,000 plus Healthcare.

You are a Sucker - in our society if you attempt to survive in Private Enterprise.

There are lots and lots of government jobs that pay $79,0000 plus range - way more that the Median Income.

Tell this to the Greek pensioners. I don't believe that pensions will exist 20 years from today.

[jpatter666]

Re: iTulipers who Occupy Wall Street

Tell this to the Greek pensioners. I don't believe that pensions will exist 20 years from today.

I agree -- this is but one of the reasons we are IMO going to see fairly high (10% y/y) inflation over the next decade. Fixed pension payments are going to get decimated, because that's the only way out for many companies/governments.