Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

[shiny!]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

You want to know what will happen with the OWS movement if those running government do not get their **** together and tell the greedy ****s running the shadow government and Wall Street to go **** themselves?

1. The movement will place a heavy burden on security services, local governments will have police crack down and begin abusing and hurting protesters.

2. As more people joint the ranks of the poor and unemployed, the heavier the burden on security services, government will suspend all civil liberties.

3. Protestors will respond to the lack of civil liberties with acts of violence, bombs, shootings, sabotage, etc.

4. Government will respond by shutting off freedom of movement and installing check points to control the movement of dissidents.

5. Government will implement massive propaganda campaigns to turn neighbors against neighbors, they will reward those that side with the government with economic rewards, i.e. jobs, food, fuel, etc.

6. The economy will break complete down and civil war will ensue.

7. Pending the outcome of the civil war, the reconstruction cycle will begin again.

This has happened since the beginning of time where Usury has been the primary economic model.

It's hard to argue with the #1-4. #5, probably. In the past, #6 (civil war) would logically follow #1-4 but I just don't know how that could happen now. There is too wide a discrepancy in firepower between rioters and law enforcement. Have you seen what microwave crowd control weapons can do? I have a hard time imagining violent revolution happening here, but that might just be normalcy bias clouding my thinking. Cripes, I hope there's another way!

[BillBoard]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

It's hard to argue with the #1-4. #5, probably. In the past, #6 (civil war) would logically follow #1-4 but I just don't know how that could happen now. There is too wide a discrepancy in firepower between rioters and law enforcement. Have you seen what microwave crowd control weapons can do? I have a hard time imagining violent revolution happening here, but that might just be normalcy bias clouding my thinking. Cripes, I hope there's another way!

Look at Iraq and Afghanistan, all that fire power for naught.

[shiny!]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

Look at Iraq and Afghanistan, all that fire power for naught.

I have thought of that, a lot. But bread and circuses buys a lot of peace. As long as so many are dependent upon government aid, and as long as that money keeps coming, people will be too afraid to rebel. As long as people are living from paycheck to paycheck with nothing left over, they will be too afraid to protest for fear of being arrested, losing their job and missing their mortgage payment. Or so the gov't hopes.

If the welfare, unemployment benefits and food stamps stop, then that's a whole 'nuther story. I'm afraid at that point we will be having roving mobs of looters rather than a revolution.

[BillBoard]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

I have thought of that, a lot. But bread and circuses buys a lot of peace. As long as so many are dependent upon government aid, and as long as that money keeps coming, people will be too afraid to rebel. As long as people are living from paycheck to paycheck with nothing left over, they will be too afraid to protest for fear of being arrested, losing their job and missing their mortgage payment. Or so the gov't hopes.

If the welfare, unemployment benefits and food stamps stop, then that's a whole 'nuther story. I'm afraid at that point we will be having roving mobs of looters rather than a revolution.

I agree with you on the bread and circuses.

The inevitable part is that those that are benefiting from the system are 1. oblivious to the suffering of those less fortunate and 2. not willing to give up power easily if they can help it.

Only by the push back on the oppressing power can the less fortunate gain some ground and dignity, but like all things in life they are not neatly resolve and things tend to over swing in either direction. So for now, sit back and enjoy the show, there really isn't anything you can do to stop this runaway train wreck.

[oddlots]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

Occupy Wall Streeters know what they want, and why they want it. You may not fully understand what is going on, but if you are having problems paying your bills due to a lack of work or opportunities, you are already feeling the reasons why people are occupying Wall Street.

The first and most important thing that Occupy Wall Street people want is the abolishment of the Federal Reserve Bank. The reason why? Because it is a private bank that issues the money of our country under Usury to the detriment of all the people that do not own a share in the Federal Reserve Bank.

The second thing Occupy Wall Street people want is competing currencies. By having competing currencies you remove from the Central Bank the awesome power to leave you homeless at their whim.

You will see Occupy Wall Streeters with different signs and slogans, but that does not mean they do not know what they want, they do, and do not let the government media tell you differently. If you let government shape your view of the Occupy Wall Street movement, you will soon find yourself unable to pay your rent or mortgage, unemployed and unable to feed your children.

All we ask is for a fair chance to compete, and that begins by abolishing the Federal Reserve Bank and having competing currencies

Thanks for the report Bill but that seems a little unequivocal for a movement that is obviously very disparate, in fact apparently quite consciously so.

Beyond that, I don't really understand what the argument above is. In fact I've had this problem with the "central bank is evil argument" for years. It seems obvious to me that once you allow any credit at all into the situation you will eventually need a central bank to resolve it. (Risk will always be shifted onto those least able to carry it resulting in periodic crises.) You can argue that this central bank or that central bank in this or that country at this or that point of time is evil but I don't think that you can

a) claim that central banking is not the obvious terminus for a private credit market when we arrived there (really here) somewhere in the 17th century.

b) claim that competition is somehow going to defang the central banking monster when, in the heyday of laissez-faire economics in 19th century America, "competition" led exactly to the creation of the "monster" (from Jekyl Island or whatever.)

I really think the trick is to rummage through the history and also the salient, searing lessons of our own life experience and squint a little:

What I see is that it's possible to salvage the "public utility" function of central banking from the wreckage. One example might be those countries that have not had any bailouts (e.g., Canada.) Another might be the Switzerland government's recent smack down of UBS and Credit Suisse to the effect that they have mandated an increase of tier 1 capital to 19% of assets.

The moral of the story being that, if you are going to have a central bank they'd better kick ass (hopefully for the commons, public good etc), quite a different conclusion than you've come to.

[BillBoard]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

Thanks for the report Bill but that seems a little unequivocal for a movement that is obviously very disparate, in fact apparently quite consciously so.

Beyond that, I don't really understand what the argument above is. In fact I've had this problem with the "central bank is evil argument" for years. It seems obvious to me that once you allow any credit at all into the situation you will eventually need a central bank to resolve it. (Risk will always be shifted onto those least able to carry it resulting in periodic crises.) You can argue that this central bank or that central bank in this or that country at this or that point of time is evil but I don't think that you can

a) claim that central banking is not the obvious terminus for a private credit market when we arrived there (really here) somewhere in the 17th century.

b) claim that competition is somehow going to defang the central banking monster when, in the heyday of laissez-faire economics in 19th century America, "competition" led exactly to the creation of the "monster" (from Jekyl Island or whatever.)

In order to discuss the above with you, the following text must be read and understood about central banking:

http://www.mises.org/books/desoto.pdf

(above link came from Sapiens' thread here: http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...=6501#post6501 )

What I see is that it's possible to salvage the "public utility" function of central banking from the wreckage. One example might be those countries that have not had any bailouts (e.g., Canada.) Another might be the Switzerland government's recent smack down of UBS and Credit Suisse to the effect that they have mandated an increase of tier 1 capital to 19% of assets.

The moral of the story being that, if you are going to have a central bank they'd better kick ass (hopefully for the commons, public good etc), quite a different conclusion than you've come to.

Again, you must read Desoto's work to understand that the primary purpose why you need a central banking is due to fractional reserve banking, and the ease of political control that comes with it.

[shiny!]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

I agree with you on the bread and circuses.

The inevitable part is that those that are benefiting from the system are 1. oblivious to the suffering of those less fortunate and 2. not willing to give up power easily if they can help it.

This is true and happening.

Only by the push back on the oppressing power can the less fortunate gain some ground and dignity, but like all things in life they are not neatly resolve and things tend to over swing in either direction. So for now, sit back and enjoy the show, there really isn't anything you can do to stop this runaway train wreck.

There are poor people on SSI that are truly disabled and barely scraping by; they live a sad, depressing existence. How do they survive on $630 a month??? I worry about them because they are the ones likely to suffer even more cuts.

But just as not all the rich are evil, not all of the poor are noble. I see people around here who are able-bodied but claiming SSI, or living off a relative on SSI. Several have told me that they don't work because they will lose their checks, or because the jobs are beneath them. IMO they are are almost as bad as the top .005%.

The top .005% doesn't care about the suffering of the poorest of the poor. These leaches getting money for nothing don't care about the suffering of the middle-class that is being taxed to pay for their benefits. It's these people who are going to be the looting mobs.

I don't think the revolution will happen by protesting in the streets- not here, not now. TPTB are viewing OWS like an annoying flea circus. They've manipulated its image to be repulsive to most of the middle-class. Revolutionary changes IMO will happen when the middle-class no longer participates, no longer pays taxes sufficient to run they system, no longer purchases on credit. Black Friday is coming. Lets watch the mobs and sheeple flocking to the malls for the annual X-mas mass consumption to see how far along we are on that track.

I wish I was 30 years younger, when I had better nerves and better knees. I don't have the stomach for these times.

[BillBoard]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

I don't think the revolution will happen by protesting in the streets- not here, not now. TPTB are viewing OWS like an annoying flea circus. They've manipulated its image to be repulsive to most of the middle-class. Revolutionary changes IMO will happen when the middle-class no longer participates, no longer pays taxes sufficient to run they system, no longer purchases on credit. Black Friday is coming. Lets watch the mobs and sheeple flocking to the malls for the annual X-mas mass consumption to see how far along we are on that track.

I wish I was 30 years younger, when I had better nerves and better knees. I don't have the stomach for these times.

Flea circus or not OWS will morph into something much larger, see the system is on auto pilot and overdrive, those benefiting from the largess will not and basically cannot shut it off now. It would be maddening and suicidal to try to shut if off by any insider, they have to let it collapse out of its own sheer weight.

Don't despair, it is a great time to be alive, share with your family and friends, develop deep connections and friendships, soon they will be very valuable which will lead to a great life experience. I have mined Sapiens' posts for insight and you can find what you need to know in his forum, I know I have.

[shiny!]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

Don't despair, it is a great time to be alive, share with your family and friends, develop deep connections and friendships, soon they will be very valuable which will lead to a great life experience. I have mined Sapiens' posts for insight and you can find what you need to know in his forum, I know I have.

I don't have any family. I had a great husband with massive skills for living in hard times, but he's gone now. My good friends live far away at high altitude where my body can't live. My local friends are seriously stuck in normalcy bias, and my neighbors are so poor that they'll be begging me to feed them when their checks stop coming. Not a super situation for me. I'm not complaining, but I'm not celebrating, either.

From a "future-history" standpoint, this is a fascinating time in which to be living. Just wish I had a little more safety net.

[oddlots]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

I insist that you read everything produced by Antal E. Fekete.

I tried once and I think I have the upper hand.

Are you seriously telling me you can't give me a précis of what he says or why it matters... and you just apparently came back from a massive teach-in. How'd it go?

[DSpencer]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

The first and most important thing that Occupy Wall Street people want is the abolishment of the Federal Reserve Bank. The reason why? Because it is a private bank that issues the money of our country under Usury to the detriment of all the people that do not own a share in the Federal Reserve Bank.

The second thing Occupy Wall Street people want is competing currencies. By having competing currencies you remove from the Central Bank the awesome power to leave you homeless at their whim.

Are you saying that in your experience these are the primary goals for the majority or plurality of people taking part in OWS? Or just that they should be?

I know that supporters of OWS get frustrated by the "what do these people want" kind of thinking. The problem isn't that there are no visible goals of the movement, but that there are hundreds of different and sometimes conflicting goals. Ranging from the critical and sensible to the trivial and insane.

[LazyBoy]

Re: Billboard flying into NYC to Occupy Wall Street.

What's the current state of Zuccotti park? Is it completely closed? Did OWS regroup elsewhere?

The wife wants to go into NYC to see the Xmas stuff soon. I want to see OWS.