Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

[lektrode]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

When you hear the term "exploited" you know what's coming next. The poor babies aren't as smart as we are so we have to paternalistically take care of them through force. I mean everyone who has ever worked for someone else for less than what you consider a "fair wage" is the moral equivalent of a hostage, right?...Since I once worked for low pay and also once paid low wages I'm too dumb to figure it out myself.
....
Crazy idea. If you don't like how Fedex runs their business, don't use them and don't work for them. Or, get together with your altruistic friends who want to pay more for labor than they have to and buy up the stock and change it. Oh wait, that requires taking risks. I forgot. Nevermind.

take it easy S&R - you realize that some on here just like to paint a picture of us private sector capitalist dog right-winger self-employed types as 'ideologues' and make fun of how dumb we are, while making condescending remarks calculated to get us agitated enough to post so they can argue with someone - otherwise the echo chamber tends to get boring....
;)

[lektrode]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

....Maybe privatization of the mail isn't the right solution. What about simply applying the Fedex model to USPS carriers? They already do that with rural route carriers and fill in drivers. I bet you'd see a huge surge in productivity!

huh?... GASP!!!!
and 'violate collective bargaining agreements' so that forces em to actually work _all_ day?
you must have been out in the hot sun today, S&R...

I change shirts 2-3 times a day in the summer due to sweating at my business, by the way.

jeeeze - lucky you - i get to sweat all day in one...

but seriously - altho some or even most of the postal service workers i'm sure put in a 'full day' would agree that they likely arent even 1/2 as productive as fedx people are - tho i tend to think the guys in brown do a better job - at least getting stuff out here 'when it absolutely, positively' has to be out here the next day: only ups red seems able to make it happen.

[lektrode]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

...The simple solution would be to end the monopoly on mailboxes and 1st class type mail and let the USPS die a natural death. If people want to live on mountaintops in remote areas where other companies don't want to service it, let them incur the costs by driving into town to get their mail.

dunno if that would make much sense, as one who doesnt get RFD (rural free delivery)
and just watching as the daily crowd of people _driving_ in and choking up the parking lots of yer typical rural PO should make it clear that this isnt all that efficient and would likely get much worse, if it wasnt for the postal svc delivery

and altho i've heard otherwise, the volume of unsolicited and subsidized (bulk discounted) JUNKMAIL must weigh on the cashflow/efficiency factor, wouldnt you think?

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Des...10905-492.html

It is true that the nature of mail has changed because of the Internet but it is also true that three biggest years in volume in the 236-year history of the Postal Service were 2005, 2006 and 2007, well into the Internet era. The bigger impact upon the Postal Service was the financial collapse of 2008.

yeah, what with the hundreds of millions/billions of credit card come-ons, the sudden shutdown of that massive volume alone must have been traumatic...

never mind the even more massive volumes of unsolicited catalogs - my grrlfriend gets _dozens_ of them monthly - some merchants send em several times/month, with essentially the same stuff shown, just rearranged on the pages - and most of them from merchants she's never even bought stuff from - and all of this pile of crap comes in via bulk mail = subsidized, is it not?

one wonders just how much the excess staffing and material handling capabilties, along with _millions_ of sqft of fed-spec buildings, lighting/heating/cooling could be eliminated

but making even more people _drive_ to go pickup the mail would seem to make efforts to cutback "unnecessary" service to individual addresses somewhat self-defeating - would it not?

[aaron]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

I think they should stop providing the universal service. It is a luxury that is no longer needed.
If you want daily mail, you move to a city. Otherwise, you use email and FEDEX.

A bet the "few" billion that we will have to pay the postal service would be enough to kick start a better Internet system to rural areas. How much does it cost to lay down fiber? How much does it cost to deliver junk mail up into the mountains? Hell, if they had any vision at all, they would start training the postal service members to lay the fiber themselves. It could be argued that it is part of their charter. They should facilitate communication.

But, more likely, their future in a peak cheap oil world will resemble the past. You will see mailmen on horseback again. They'll get up into the mountains with mail once a month.

[drumminj]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

For all of us who have bought gold or silver through APMEX, it is shipped by the United States Post Office, which APMEX believes is the safest method!

I actually tell APMEX to ship via UPS, due to the same experience someone posted earlier.

My postal carrier left the box in my mailbox with the signature card on top of it!!! A few days later he left a note saying "I need that card". I called the postal inspector to complain and he told me that was acceptable for a package that said SIGNATURE REQUIRED!!!!

So yeah, I will only have them ship via UPS, as I know UPS won't leave my package without handing it to a physical person and getting the signature in person. I hope that person will be me every time

[mesyn191]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

really?
that must be why _thousands_ show up/apply for every job either of them advertise - was so even before the depression of 2009 started.

People lining up around the block for shitty jobs is nothing new. Hell they line up to work for free just to have the chance at getting a decent referral, as "interns". All you're doing is showing how desperate people are that they're willing to accept jobs like that.

Also anecdotes about firemen looking for shitty jobs as proof those workers have it so good, are you kidding?

being a fedx ground driver seems like a perty good deal/bet if one puts in the effort

Reminds me of those douchebag MLM scammer ads. They'll showcase a few of the people that actually managed to make 6 figures while they downplay or never mention at all the hundreds or thousands under them who actually lose cash after expenses or make effectively minimum wage.

[mesyn191]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

When you hear the term "exploited" you know what's coming next. The poor babies aren't as smart as we are so we have to paternalistically take care of them through force.

There is a loong history of companies abusing workers in the US that continues to this day. You need only look at the wealth distribution and falling/stagnant wages while the unemployment is sky high to know this is true. That "poor babies" remark just shows how little empathy your fellow man and that you fail to acknowledge the means by which our current economic system screws Labor to favor a few at the top shows how out of touch with reality you are in far better of a manner then I ever could.

If you don't like how Fedex runs their business, don't use them and don't work for them. Or, get together with your altruistic friends who want to pay more for labor than they have to and buy up the stock and change it. Oh wait, that requires taking risks. I forgot. Nevermind.

What the hell? We're talking about the USPS going under, in that situation you're forced to use UPS or Fedex, choice is taken away from you. And I have no problem paying more for labor but I'm not the president, have no influence on congress, am not rich, and a Left party is effectively nonexistent in the US.

[shiny!]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

Go order some high value small item shipped to you. For about $15 or less they'll send it via UPS or Fedex and an employee will hand it to you and require your signature. It's also insured. Then insist on having it sent via USPS registered mail to get the same protections. It's several times more costly. And the last time I did this, my stellar union postal carrier decided that even though it was wrapped in security tape and marked "signature required" all over it in green, that it was good enough to just leave it in my mailbox.

Go online and ask the USPS to ship you hundreds of priority mail boxes. They will send you about as many as you order, for almost nothing. Some business model there. Give away hundreds of glossy expensive boxes for free, hoping to overcharge on the postage to make up for it. Meanwhile if I walk in with a recycled old cardboard box to ship instead, they charge me the same price. Goofy ideas like that are why they lose money.

If you compare the cost of shipping including the cost of the box, for small packages that weigh less than one pound USPS Priority Mail beats UPS and FedEX- by far! I've shipped thousands of packages via USPS Priority Mail and only three packages were misdelivered or lost. Yesterday I shipped a 9-ounce package in a USPS cube box, with delivery signature and insurance, from Phoenix to Detroit. It cost me less than $8.50. If you're a small business that ships low-weight items, the difference in postage costs between $8.50 and $15 can make or break you.

I hope they stay in business.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

... If people want to live on mountaintops in remote areas where other companies don't want to service it, let them incur the costs by driving into town to get their mail.

That is a very good point.
Many folks move way out in rural area for personal reasons, then demand the same services at the same tax rates as those of us who live tightly packed.
Perhaps the aspiring country squires can bear more of the cost for their remote lifestyles, or do without.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

.."Jobs" are better suited for those who don't care to work as hard or as long to make a certain pay. For the economy its more efficient to get more self-employed people out there.

This one puzzles me. Are you saying that employees who work for wages are lazier than self-employed people, just trying to get something for nothing?
And do you not see any economy of scale when 1000 package delivery people share one modest accounting department instead of all doing it themselves individually?

[lektrode]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

That is a very good point.
Many folks move way out in rural area for personal reasons, then demand the same services at the same tax rates as those of us who live tightly packed.
Perhaps the aspiring country squires can bear more of the cost for their remote lifestyles, or do without.

those of us who have lived/are living in rural areas dont typically _expect_ the same services or even need/want em - never mind have to pay for them = precisely _why_ we're out in the country - most of us, anyway - esp those of us who grew up in a state such as NH, but have been exposed to the mentality of newby 'country squires' who sell their expensive city/burb 'estates' and then demand the same big city conveniences and then dont understand why us country folk dont appreciate the city-slickers' POV

and the biggest reason why this 'inspired country squire' lives out in the exurbs?

because the big-city slickers mentality has resulted in A: the crash of the economy, resulting in a wipeout of my income and B: impending poverty forces types like me to forego the tightly packed madness that their big city politix engenders: out of control crime because the liberals dont like the idea of jail/punishment, spirit-crushing traffic because they dont want to even consider things like 'demand pricing' for use of the roadways, ridiculously high taxes and fees to support huge-out-of-control buracracy, stacked with politically patronizing and overpriced/underperfoming dimwits, while their 'esteemed' politicians allowed overdevelopment and the quality of life in the cities to deteriorate to the point only the 'rich' have any quality of life within them.

but nuthin personal, T&B.

[lektrode]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

i typically ride my bicycle the 1/2mile to the PO, if for no other reason than to get the blood pumping, but mostly to avoid the clusterf__k at the parking lot when the entire 'hood all arrives at the same time to pick the mail

but i agree about 'universal service' daily into the boonies - perhaps weekly is a good compromise

altho i'd be quite hesitant to depend on 'lektronic delivery of anything important, like bills, checks etc
and the reality of the present setup is the fight the postal unions will most certainly put up to prevent any further cram down of their headcounts and benefits

but yeah - it will be a good thing when FTTH happens (fiber to my house) - just who/how it gets paid for is the question -
what, shutdown the PO and have fx/ups bring the packages/hardcopy docs?

would seem this will be VERY expensive to actually pull-off - but hey! i'm game for the discussion - how do we go about this, precisely?

i'm not intending on starting an argument here - just into pushing the idea buttons, since it seems the political class is incapable of coming up with a plan...

[lektrode]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

People lining up around the block for shitty jobs is nothing new. Hell they line up to work for free just to have the chance at getting a decent referral, as "interns". All you're doing is showing how desperate people are that they're willing to accept jobs like that.

Also anecdotes about firemen looking for shitty jobs as proof those workers have it so good, are you kidding?

first time i have _ever_ heard that working for fedx or ups is a s____y job - guess i'm suffering from the 'urban legend' that they have one of the best pay/benefit pkgs going - course its likely not quite as good as the uspo - but then when are low-level/line-worker jobs in the private sector _ever_ as good as .gov jobs?

and it occured to me that if a dude sharp enuf to run his own broker/dealer shop in manhattan thot buying/operating a fedx ground franchise was a good bet - why would i be making fun of that?

Reminds me of those douchebag MLM scammer ads. They'll showcase a few of the people that actually managed to make 6 figures while they downplay or never mention at all the hundreds or thousands under them who actually lose cash after expenses or make effectively minimum wage.

i'll agree with you there, having investigated a number of those 'opportunities' for myself - they all depend upon one being either a silver-tongued devil/conartist or in possesion of the recruiting/management skillset of the military and the bankroll to fund the downstream operations until the organization gets effective in generating the big money - taint me, thats fer damn sure

[tree]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

Yes, Virginia, there is a vast right-wing conspiracy to take away the USPS, so you have to either use pricey Fed Ex or do all written personal communication online, where Big Brothers and Sisters can read EVERYTHING and you pay for the privilege with humongous broadband service costs.
In the late '90s, I wrote one of the first stories on online bill paying.
Yesterday I put a total of five stamps (totaling 44 cents) on a bill that I could have paid online.
Stop using online bill payment. Paying the freaking 44 cents. Or pay a much bigger price, very soon.

[aaron]

Re: Post Office a bad business or being made into a bad business?

Perhaps the post office can deliver to major towns/small cities. The final leg of the journey can be auctioned off just like FEDEX does. Then, you can pay to have your mail delivered once a week if you do not want to drive and get it. If they were good about it, they could restrict applicants to local companies only. Then the money would stay local.

The justification in the past for pouring money into the sticks was because we must keep the workers on the farm happy. We have 3 corporations who hire Mexican labor to do that now. We have no good reason, in times of limited resources, to pay for people to live out in the country. This includes the #@$(#&$&@# fees I have to pay on my phone bill to erect cell towers to service 3 people.

And, what do you really need to get in paper form now? If something legal or important needs to be delivered in paper format, that is already done by Fedex, NOT by regular postal mail.

Massively prefunding the retirement is suspicious and seems like just a way to tax them. It was probably justified because they get government support. I suspect FedEx and UPS both had their lobbyist working on that one!

Actually, I am convinced. The whole operation should just be phased out over the next 10 years. It is a waste of scarce resources. (Most mail I bet is the junk mail you do not want anyway).