Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

[shiny!]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

whoops!

"New York Attorney General Kicked Off Government Group Leading Foreclosure Probe"

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/08/23-13

Sh*t. May the realm of Justice come.

[don]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

I have no love for FIRE, but the truth is closer to "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Agree an active defense is essential. Like going to the doctor. Better know something about your own health. I assume you keep a steady eye on the managing of your pension. Sound practice.

[don]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

One of my neighbors worked in fire rescue (office personnel) and recently retired on an early-out offer.

Early-out, what a unearthly term for those of us outside the cocoon of a civil service/union workplace. Like accrued sick leave or comp time. WFT?

Anyways, back to the story. She also recently married a guy that's worked in his family business all his life. He's almost 60. The company, a flooring outfit, was started just after the Great Depression by his Dad. Been in town forever. He started learning the trade when he was 14. His 2 sisters ran the two location counter sales and did the bookkeeping.

He told me last weekend the two girls have left, the 5 year lease on the 2nd location was left to lapse (despite a 30% reduction offer by the landlord). He's covering all bases and for the first time in his life he's feeling his core energy start to slip. He's aware at some level of how FIRE's induced RE/CRE bubble wrecked the industry for the foreseeable future. We don't talk about that. He's considering bankruptcy.

[chr5648]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

First and foremost the fraudsters who sold this crap paper to a school district, ought to be put in the public stocks. They are stealing from children. Then they ought to have all of their personal assets seized, and be forced to live in a small studio apartment and do honest work, all their profits going to pay back the board. That would be a good start.

That board was playing cash flows games too, why the heck were they in a $400 million shortfall? How the heck to Wisconsin school districts go $400 million in debt? You could construct many new schools for that money. Why was the board STEALING from future generations to maintain a ponzi scheme today?

The board and FIRE are no different, 2 institutional monstrosities hell bent on their own survival. Replace all the people in the law suit/board of ed/fire, and you will get the same result. The institutions combined with human nature are the real problem.

I could guarantee that you could take anyone randomly from these forums, including those that vehemently hate FIRE, put them in the positions of these school boards or FIRE, and the same law suit would get crapped out.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."

[cjppjc]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

That board was playing cash flows games too, why the heck were they in a $400 million shortfall? How the heck to Wisconsin school districts go $400 million in debt? You could construct many new schools for that money. Why was the board STEALING from future generations to maintain a ponzi scheme today?

The board and FIRE are no different, 2 institutional monstrosities hell bent on their own survival. Replace all the people in the law suit/board of ed/fire, and you will get the same result. The institutions combined with human nature are the real problem.

I could guarantee that you could take anyone randomly from these forums, including those that vehemently hate FIRE, put them in the positions of these school boards or FIRE, and the same law suit would get crapped out.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Wonderful. The I'm so much better than them adittude gets tiring after a while. If I knew how to post that applause GIF I would.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

I could guarantee that you could take anyone randomly from these forums, including those that vehemently hate FIRE, put them in the positions of these school boards or FIRE, and the same law suit would get crapped out.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Too harsh. In researching municipal bonds, it's amazing how much dough some local governments have socked away into rainy day funds, and how strong a pay-as-you-go mentality is. There are plenty of places where this foolish investment would never have been considered.

[lektrode]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

One of my neighbors worked in fire rescue (office personnel) and recently retired on an early-out offer.

Early-out, what a unearthly term for those of us outside the cocoon of a civil service/union workplace. Like accrued sick leave or comp time. WFT?

uh huh: more like W__The_F__k!!!!

i know of several in the private sector who have lost more than 1/2 of their pensions to various bankruptcies, and 'restructuring'

why i have to ROTFLMAO when we read from some around here who seem to think that laying off gov 'workers' will cause whats left of the economy to contract even further???

this i interpret to mean that they think that the .gov creates jobs/income/wealth?

leads me to wonder just what ivory tower they learned all their biz/economics from.
(musta been same place krugman learned his...)

Anyways, back to the story. She also recently married a guy that's worked in his family business all his life. He's almost 60. The company, a flooring outfit, was started just after the Great Depression by his Dad. Been in town forever. He started learning the trade when he was 14. His 2 sisters ran the two location counter sales and did the bookkeeping.

He told me last weekend the two girls have left, the 5 year lease on the 2nd location was left to lapse (despite a 30% reduction offer by the landlord). He's covering all bases and for the first time in his life he's feeling his core energy start to slip. He's aware at some level of how FIRE's induced RE/CRE bubble wrecked the industry for the foreseeable future. We don't talk about that. He's considering bankruptcy.

the back story in items like this goes something like so:
longtime trade businesses run by 2nd gen proprietors, typically boomers, are shutting down/retiring left/right - at some point SKILLED LABOR will be even harder to come by than it already is

= krunch time when stuff needs fixing, as in "how do you spell "expensive"

m - a - r - i - n - e
or BOAT = bring over _another_ thousand

never mind what it already costs to get yer import car fixed....

but HEY!!! i know!
all we need is another couple million more liberal arts degrees!!!
paid for with BORROWED BILLIONS.
right after we get the banks and healthcare 'reformed'

[mesyn191]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

why i have to ROTFLMAO when we read from some around here who seem to think that laying off gov 'workers' will cause whats left of the economy to contract even further???

1) Will cutting wages/benefits improve the standard of living for individuals or if laborers in general have less to spend will the economy grow?
2) If the government was doing its job properly it would re-regulate the credit agencies and banks, write down bad debt, and reorganize the expenditures such that money would be spent on the productive parts of the economy rather than FIRE. That is where the "creating jobs/income/wealth" can come in. This is what was done post GD and post S&L and it _could_ be done again...if the government itself wasn't captured by FIRE in part or total.
3) Tax cuts are the worst way to improve the economy, even welfare is better.

4) Due to the way the laws/regs are structured most any tax cut implemented will be overly advantageous for the wealthy vs the middle class or poor.

5) Tax cuts are the main reason why the debt crisis is coming to a head so quickly.

6) "Starve the beast" aka "Reganomics" aka "supply side economics" are pro FIRE and serve to concentrate the wealth in the hands of a select few at the top by stealing or flat out impovrishing everyone else.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

Back to the thread topic...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OydC6...eature=related

David Noack is seated with his back to the camera.

Just a two minute clip, but it shows the school district never had a chance…

Board member: “Whatever we don’t borrow, there’s an opportunity cost lost, right?”

Huh?

[don]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

Back to the thread topic...

Actually the thread topic has never been addressed. It was a classic case of the MSM (NYTimes in this case) presenting what appears to be an expose and is in reality a coverup.

[tombat1913]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

Just because you made the post doesn't mean you get full rights to interpretation of which aspects are significant. This is after all a forum. GRG clearly thought that the negligence of trustees of massive sums of money for an education system was significant, I agree and I appreciate his focus on that matter. The fact that some assistant business editor at the NY Times doesn't understand the bottom line isn't news to me. The fact that school district trustees leveraged and invested hundreds of millions without even receiving, reading and fully understanding a prospectus is news to me.

[don]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

Just because you made the post doesn't mean you get full rights to interpretation of which aspects are significant. This is after all a forum. GRG clearly thought that the negligence of trustees of massive sums of money for an education system was significant, I agree and I appreciate his focus on that matter. The fact that some assistant business editor at the NY Times doesn't understand the bottom line isn't news to me. The fact that school district trustees leveraged and invested hundreds of millions without even receiving, reading and fully understanding a prospectus is news to me.

Everything that was said about pensions on this thread has been said multiple times before on the 'tulip, by pretty much the same posters. I happen to agree with just about everything they say. I started this thread for a different purpose, however, and suspected that if the p-word was included the pension jones couldn't be put back in their jeans. Too bad. An intelligent airing of MSM propaganda would have been refreshing. I may have learned something. So would an in-depth look at pension malfeasance. Unfortunately neither was the case.

[lektrode]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

Everything that was said about pensions on this thread has been said multiple times before on the 'tulip, by pretty much the same posters. I happen to agree with just about everything they say. I started this thread for a different purpose, however, and suspected that if the p-word was included the pension jones couldn't be put back in their jeans. Too bad. An intelligent airing of MSM propaganda would have been refreshing. I may have learned something. So would an in-depth look at pension malfeasance. Unfortunately neither was the case.

OH, alright don ;)
now that i/we know the motivation, i'll go back a put some more time into reading the orig piece more carefully and come up with some of my inciteful commentary

i for one appreciate your stuff, so will be more than happy to disect this one for ya.

[lektrode]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

ok.... first thing the 2nd read comes up with is this:

"...But there appears to be plenty of blame to go around, as has been typical throughout the crisis. The S.E.C. said its investigation is continuing. It would do well to examine closely any allegations of gaming ratings agency models.

In the meantime, the Wisconsin Circuit Court in Milwaukee will decide whether Stifel will be held liable for the school districts’ losses. Who will prevail in Stifel’s battle with the S.E.C. remains to be seen.

This much, however, is clear: Lawsuits filed against institutions involved in the credit mania continue to reveal much about practices that led to titanic losses in this crisis. Because we still don’t know the whole story of this mess, even four years after it erupted,..."

this seems to be a common meme for 'the crisis' (just another in the long procession of them..)
"there's plenty of blame to go around"
"it remains to be seen" and
"because we still dont know the whole story"

my take/translation on this?

BECAUSE WE (they, the chattering class of the lamestream media) CANT BLAME IT ON BUSH AND THE GOP

because, as i mentioned in my comments regarding INSIDE JOB,

if THEY COULD NAIL BUSH & CO????

THE HEADLINES WOULD BE 4" TALL IN EVERY NEWSPAPER, EVERY PHREAKIN DAY

but because its looking ever more suspiciously like a liberal/dem plot/conspiracy/f__kup
what we get is simply: "....because we still dont know the whole story..."

there, does that get more into what you were hoping from the discussion on this thread?

(just trying/glad i could help ;)

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Classic Times FIRE Duck & Cover - the Wisconsin School's Caper

Interesting that Stifel has repurchased the 162.5 million from DEPFA Bank indicating they anticpate losing the case.