Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

[touchring]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

the more i read about the thousands of people being purged, the more it looks like the "coup" was staged by erdogan as an excuse to consolidate his power even further. how, in mere days, could anyone compile these lists of thousands of judges, police, educators, administrators who were supposedly plotters or sympathizers? the lists were made beforehand, awaiting their excuse.

Judging from his actions in the last 12 months, Saddam won't be the last US backed leader to go bonkers.

The US election is drawing closer, Ergodan is getting desperate as the US policy in Turkey is likely to change if Trump wins.

Obama's policy in Turkey, just like the rest of the Middle East, of which Turkey is part of, is a complete failure, unless the goal is to destablize the Middle East and breakup the EU - then it will be considered a success.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

the more i read about the thousands of people being purged, the more it looks like the "coup" was staged by erdogan as an excuse to consolidate his power even further. how, in mere days, could anyone compile these lists of thousands of judges, police, educators, administrators who were supposedly plotters or sympathizers? the lists were made beforehand, awaiting their excuse.

Bingo. Nobody stages a coup like that. Hell, jk, it only takes three people and an unclassified map to cut the internet in New England for a night. And it only takes a couple thousand dollar gadget and physical control over a powerful radio tower to knock out cell data over a good area. Or you just wait until the president is out of the country and cut the international connections for the night. You don't need to end all data--just civilian data. They couldn't even get that done. They didn't secure communications. They didn't secure key infrastructure or bases. They didn't make outside alliances or plans. They didn't even seem to have attempted to get at the leader they were overthrowing in any way whatsoever. I mean, this fails coup 101 on every level imaginable. The whole thing just felt way too sloppy to have been a real coup from the night it occurred.

[makimanos]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

Erdogan along with Putin are by far the most dynamic and ambitious world leaders although I think now they are trailing behind China's Xi. Turkeys geographical situation gives Erdogan a big advantage. After more than 10 years almost without opposition except some elements in the army, which the failed coup suggests that control, is ready for his next move. An extended caliphate with semi autonomous regions? His actions suggests that he thinks he can unfold his plan now which undoubtedly is looking East. And of course he can rule his subjects with an iron fist crushing all opposition. In the Muslim world only Iran is somehow a formidable foe, hence the hurry of the west to solve the problems. The USA better to remove all the nuclear weapons from Incirlic air base before is too late.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

It is my understanding that the base had had its electricity shut off and I have not yet heard any mention of it since; does anyone know whether it remains operational?

[santafe2]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

How about transferring the nukes to Qatar instead? The past couple of years experience in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Ukraine shows that if things goes bad, the US will just pull out.

When I was in the military I worked with the US nuclear inspection team in Europe. My boots on the ground knowledge regarding the northern Turkish border is quite dated at this point but I find it unlikely we're seeking a new host country. As I said before, I seriously doubt anything happens in Turkey where the US is not consulted. If Erdogan is allowed to crush what stands as democracy in Turkey to stop this rebellion, (real or embellished), it is part of the US plan to manage the US empire in that region. One may not care for it but strongmen are required to keep an empire moving forward and this one is proving difficult to control and Turkey has a border with Syria. All empires fall but the US will not just pull out. Not in our lifetimes anyway.

[vt]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

“I’m already against the next war,” said a bumper sticker in Napa, California.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

the more i read about the thousands of people being purged, the more it looks like the "coup" was staged by erdogan as an excuse to consolidate his power even further. how, in mere days, could anyone compile these lists of thousands of judges, police, educators, administrators who were supposedly plotters or sympathizers? the lists were made beforehand, awaiting their excuse.

While the lists of people opposed to Erdogan were surely compiled well before the coup, make no mistake that it was a coup.

A poorly executed middle management coup that was likely discovered/comprimised forcing early execution.

There were a couple of incidents I heard directly from a senior Turk that lead him to believe it was genuine and poorly, poorly executed, then aggressively capitalised by Erdogan.

[GRG55]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

While the lists of people opposed to Erdogan were surely compiled well before the coup, make no mistake that it was a coup.

A poorly executed middle management coup that was likely discovered/comprimised forcing early execution.

There were a couple of incidents I heard directly from a senior Turk that lead him to believe it was genuine and poorly, poorly executed, then aggressively capitalised by Erdogan.

How did they expect to keep it a secret from Erdogan when tens of thousands of judges, military rank & file, teachers, police officers and foreign workers, not to mention NATO itself, seem to have been in on it.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

How did they expect to keep it a secret from Erdogan when tens of thousands of judges, military rank & file, teachers, police officers and foreign workers, not to mention NATO itself, seem to have been in on it.

Tens of thousands investigated and indicted in hours to days.....how efficient!

I've heard a story involving the Turkish military from a member of the Turkish security services(different guy, known to me well prior to the coup) that is an incredibly strong indicator that this was a genuine, if poorly executed and supported, coup that was ultimately and totally counterproductive.

A while's back I speculated here on the risk to Europe/US of a Turkish/Russian alliance of convenience, despite previous(and still recent and violent recent) antipathy.

EU screwed up royally not letting Turkey into the EU.

Turkey isn't Greece or Portugal.

Turkey makes real stuff with faster than average growth(until recently) and an educated workforce.

But EU fear of Turks in the union may have helped accelerate the ultimate failure of the EU.

I'm wondering if we will look back in 25-30 years at the EU/Turkey issue as one of the critical mistakes of the first half of the 21st century.

[jk]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

if turkey had been in the eu, could any refugees and any islamic state supporters who made it to turkey have crossed into the eu without limit or recourse?

[llanlad2]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

if turkey had been in the eu, could any refugees and any islamic state supporters who made it to turkey have crossed into the eu without limit or recourse?

No. According to EU law theoretically refugees are supposed to remain in the country they arrive at first. However as the first port of call is often Greece/Hungary other poorer EU members this has caused problems as the refugees don't want to stop there. This is why Germany opened its doors. Obviously once refugees attain nation status then they are allowed freedom of movement throughout Europe.

With regards to Turkey there was very little chance of Turkey joining the EU but Turkey was letting tens of thousands of refugees through its borders in 2015 and didn't stop until the EU (in fact Germany unilaterally) pledged 3 billion Euros to the Turks. Germany also unilaterally vaguely offered to fast track Turkey's request for freedom of movement. Well Erdogan the piper is back to claim his dues.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8...u-migrant-deal

[touchring]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

With regards to Turkey there was very little chance of Turkey joining the EU but Turkey was letting tens of thousands of refugees through its borders in 2015 and didn't stop until the EU (in fact Germany unilaterally) pledged 3 billion Euros to the Turks. Germany also unilaterally vaguely offered to fast track Turkey's request for freedom of movement. Well Erdogan the piper is back to claim his dues.

Shouldn't the US pay the Turks since the arab spring and ultimately the troubles in Syria was started by Hillary Clinton?

[GRG55]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

Shouldn't the US pay the Turks since the arab spring and ultimately the troubles in Syria was started by Hillary Clinton?

Hillary did this all by herself did she?

[santafe2]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

Shouldn't the US pay the Turks since the arab spring and ultimately the troubles in Syria was started by Hillary Clinton?

The Arab Spring was more of a bread crisis. When people get a little too hungry they're willing to riot. This happened to Sadat in the '70s. The Saudi's use a portion of their oil profits to buy more fertile land in other countries to ensure their folks don't get hungry. In Syria, all sides want to starve the other side into submission. Human conflict in the Middle East is unfortunately very old school.

If the US, Asia and Europe stopped importing grains to the Middle East there would be a sudden stop in the entire region. And, these troubles started a few thousand years ago, (presumably before HRC was born). Let's not forget that this is the Fertile Crescent and its gone horribly wrong, but not on our watch.

[touchring]

Re: Meanwhile Back in the Sandbox...

Hillary did this all by herself did she?

I don't know, did Obama instruct her to do that?

All coups and revolutions need money, lots of money. Everyone needs to be paid, from the rebels/al qaeda or ISIS soldiers in Syria, to the nazi fighters in Ukraine, they receive a monthly salary, daily meals and lodging. Even the red shirt and yellow shirt rallies in Bangkok are paid for. We live in a money world, no one does things for free.