The top marginal income tax rate: 100 years at a glance

[lektrode]

Re: The top marginal income tax rate: 100 years at a glance

I was out of town for a couple of days - what little time I had was spent testing my product as I'm finally almost ready to launch.

anything you want to share yet?

On top of that I was deliberately not commenting on this thread. So much for that.

uh huh... you may have noted my comment to shiny the other day, about the eventual need for an 'itulip's anon' 12step program and the 1st: resist the urge to reply

i have a long way to go.... ;)

[c1ue]

Re: The top marginal income tax rate: 100 years at a glance

anything you want to share yet?

You've got PM.

I won't use iTulip to toot my own (business) horn.

[ekemon]

Re: The top marginal income tax rate: 100 years at a glance

Clue,

Thank you for your thoughtful analysis.

Regarding #1

Actually in the other thread I had mentioned state sales tax (nothing changes there).

You mentioned the US GDP at $14.7 trillion in 2010 and took 5% of that. You did not take into account every trade that occurs on Wall Street. Find a formula for taxing derivatives and you are talking real money.

Just for fun I found a CBO chart on Mandatory outlays vs. GDP everything else is discretionary. Note in 1968 it was 5.6% and went to 10 % in 2007.

Outlays for Mandatory Spending, 1968 to 2007, as a Percentage of Gross
Domestic Product
Sources: Congressional Budget Office; Office of Management and Budget.
a. Includes unemployment compensation, Supplemental Security Income, the refundable portion of the earned income and child tax
credits, Food Stamps, family support, child nutrition, and foster care.
Other
Social Income Retirement Other Offsetting
Security Security
a
and Disability Programs Receipts
1968 2.7 0.6 0.2 0.7 1.2 1.5 -1.2 5.6
1969 2.8 0.7 0.2 0.7 1.2 1.2 -1.2 5.7
1970 2.9 0.7 0.3 0.8 1.2 1.3 -1.1 6.0
1971 3.3 0.7 0.3 1.2 1.3 1.2 -1.3 6.7
1972 3.3 0.7 0.4 1.4 1.4 1.3 -1.2 7.4
1973 3.7 0.7 0.4 1.1 1.4 1.6 -1.4 7.5
1974 3.8 0.7 0.4 1.2 1.4 1.5 -1.5 7.6
1975 4.1 0.9 0.4 1.9 1.7 1.9 -1.2 9.7
1976 4.2 1.0 0.5 2.2 1.6 1.5 -1.1 9.7
1977 4.2 1.1 0.5 1.8 1.6 1.2 -1.1 9.2
1978 4.2 1.1 0.5 1.4 1.5 1.5 -1.0 9.2
1979 4.1 1.1 0.5 1.3 1.5 1.3 -1.0 8.8
1980 4.3 1.2 0.5 1.6 1.6 1.4 -1.1 9.6
1981 4.5 1.4 0.6 1.6 1.7 1.4 -1.2 9.9
1982 4.8 1.5 0.5 1.6 1.7 1.3 -1.1 10.4
1983 4.9 1.6 0.6 1.9 1.7 1.3 -1.3 10.6
1984 4.6 1.6 0.5 1.3 1.6 1.0 -1.2 9.4
1985 4.5 1.7 0.5 1.3 1.5 1.4 -1.1 9.7
1986 4.5 1.7 0.6 1.2 1.4 1.1 -1.0 9.4
1987 4.4 1.7 0.6 1.2 1.4 0.9 -1.1 9.1
1988 4.3 1.7 0.6 1.1 1.4 0.9 -1.1 8.9
1989 4.3 1.7 0.6 1.1 1.4 1.0 -1.2 9.0
1990 4.3 1.9 0.7 1.2 1.3 1.5 -1.0 9.9
1991 4.5 1.9 0.9 1.5 1.4 1.7 -1.8 10.1
1992 4.6 2.1 1.1 1.8 1.4 0.6 -1.1 10.4
1993 4.6 2.2 1.2 1.8 1.3 0.2 -1.0 10.2
1994 4.6 2.3 1.2 1.7 1.3 0.3 -1.0 10.3
1995 4.5 2.4 1.2 1.6 1.3 0.1 -1.1 10.1
1996 4.5 2.5 1.2 1.6 1.3 0.1 -0.9 10.2
1997 4.4 2.5 1.2 1.5 1.2 0.1 -1.1 9.9
1998 4.4 2.4 1.2 1.4 1.2 0.3 -0.9 10.0
1999 4.2 2.3 1.2 1.4 1.2 0.4 -0.8 9.9
2000 4.2 2.2 1.2 1.4 1.2 0.4 -0.8 9.8
2001 4.3 2.4 1.3 1.4 1.2 0.4 -0.9 10.0
2002 4.4 2.4 1.4 1.7 1.2 0.4 -0.9 10.7
2003 4.4 2.5 1.5 1.8 1.2 0.5 -0.9 10.9
2004 4.3 2.6 1.5 1.7 1.2 0.5 -0.9 10.8
2005 4.2 2.7 1.5 1.6 1.2 0.6 -1.0 10.8
2006 4.2 2.9 1.4 1.5 1.1 0.8 -1.1 10.8
2007 4.3 3.2 1.4 1.5 1.2 0.4 -1.3 10.6

http://www.cbo.gov/budget/data/historical.pdf

[c1ue]

Re: The top marginal income tax rate: 100 years at a glance

You mentioned the US GDP at $14.7 trillion in 2010 and took 5% of that. You did not take into account every trade that occurs on Wall Street. Find a formula for taxing derivatives and you are talking real money.

If you start talking about taxing every transaction, things are going to get pretty darned expensive.

5% from manufacturer to wholesaler. 5% from wholesaler to distributor. 5% from distributor to retailer.

I'd also note that taxing 5% of the theoretical value of a derivative means taxing 5% of the payout of an insurance policy - life, auto, health, etc.

My wouldn't that be fun.

It seems that it would be far easier to just regulate Wall Street, if the intention is to rein in Wall Street, rather than institute some highly regressive tax.

Just for fun I found a CBO chart on Mandatory outlays vs. GDP everything else is discretionary. Note in 1968 it was 5.6% and went to 10 % in 2007.

Certainly it has gone up - but how much is because the average American's age was about 28 in 1970, and it is nearly 36 now?

For that matter, the percentage of the population that was 65 or over was 9.9% in 1970 and 12.4% in 2000?

[ekemon]

Re: The top marginal income tax rate: 100 years at a glance

I was speaking of a national sales tax NOT a VAT tax. I was told VAT taxes as you mentioned are too expensive and difficult to enforce.

Regulating Wall St. Didn't we try that already :-)

[c1ue]

Re: The top marginal income tax rate: 100 years at a glance

I was speaking of a national sales tax NOT a VAT tax. I was told VAT taxes as you mentioned are too expensive and difficult to enforce.

A tax which everyone must pay no matter where in the chain is a VAT. You add value, therefore you get taxed.

A sales tax is one which is only charged at the retail level.

Taxing only financial transactions technically is a Tobin tax, but your statements were talking about everything both financial and physical.

As far as enforcement, VAT is as simple as it gets. Hard to hide anything when you must pay no matter what.

Regulating Wall St. Didn't we try that already :-)

Quite true.

But if we can't muster the political will to do it via the government, I can't see how we can muster the political will to do it indirectly in such a way that pisses everyone else off.

Again the solution is time: either enough people get angry enough about it to make it happen, or we wait for things to get worse and worse until they are angry enough.

The only risk - and it is a big one - is we get a Julius Caesar or Hitler out of it.

[lektrode]

Re: The top marginal income tax rate: 100 years at a glance

If you start talking about taxing every transaction, things are going to get pretty darned expensive.

5% from manufacturer to wholesaler. 5% from wholesaler to distributor. 5% from distributor to retailer.

...

kinda like what happens out here, with our "4.5% gen'l excise tax"
due to its 'pyramiding' thru various levels of trade - it has been noted that in a direct comparison to CA sales tax (state), the 4.5% would equal 12% in CA if levied same way as it is out here (or at least it did prev to CA's latest hikes)