We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

[c1ue]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Good lord - you're now trying to tell me Rome was democratic?

As for the wars with Carthage - sure there were several. But it was the last one in which a specific decision was made to destroy the city and sow it with salt.

Hardly symptomatic of a long decline.

As for the 30 years war - again you're seriously trying to tell me any of the players in that debacle were democratic?

Your facts are also completely off: the 30 years war was hardly the end of the mercenary armies.

The only factual difference between Wallenstein and Charles of Lorraine is...actually there is no difference. Both were military contractors who weren't even residents, much less citizens, of the nations whose militaries they ostensibly led.

Wars of annihilation have existed as long as recorded history.

Look up Philistines as well while you're at it.

As for Japan, Korea, and Taiwan - it is ridiculous to hold these up as examples when all 3 are literal military protectorates of the United States. None of these nations has any type of independence in foreign policy action. It would be like saying "my point is proved because Colorado has never annihilated another nation or people in war".
.

[Jam]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

The Carthaginian wars spanned many wars over a long period of time. They were between 2 democracies of Rome and Greece,

Huh? Carthage is not (in) Greece! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece

[chr5648]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Huh? Carthage is not (in) Greece! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece

My mistake, I was attempting to write this up quickly and confused the two. The punic wars, aka carthaginian wars were between rome and carthage. Rome nonetheless overthrew their monarchy and did establish a republic.

The 30 years was may have not been the complete end of mercenaries but, there was a huge decline afterwards.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

You are absolutely right, Serge. No one comes close to Europeans for waging wars of near-total destruction, both among themselves and against others. Must be in the genes.

Wrong: Another deluded suburbanite who has isolated himself from the chaos and anarchy that has enveloped nearly every city in America. Enjoy your bubble world while you still can.

Right: "American suburbanites are isolated from the chaos and anarchy that has enveloped nearly every city in America. I hope they enjoy their bubble world while they still can."

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Also a great point. It was the French Revolution that ushered the reign of terror upon the west and then the world.

The religion of Tablua Rasa is so insane, and so contrary to nature, it can only be enforced with massive bloodshed. And even then, they have failed as the Soviet Union most clearly indicates.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Other than Razib Khan being a nut job defender of Watson, who in turn is another nut job racist, the point of this article is simply that it is increasingly obvious that Darwin and Lamarck were both right.

Evolution is genetic, but expression of genetics is shaped by the environment.

Thus Darwin's theory was wrong in the sense that environment doesn't change the genes, while Lamarck was wrong in that the environment doesn't directly change the species.

The genes for change already exist within the species and are allowed or suppressed due to environmental conditions.

I see, you're just blinded by ideology so much so that you would dismiss one of the most brilliant men who ever has lived.

[llanlad2]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

The wars you must be referring to are those in the 20th century and the few in the 19th and 18th century. Its kind of funny how with the rise of democracy and massively destructive wars are correlated. The real turning point in the history of armed world conflict is the French revolution. Prior to the french revolution monarchies tended to keep relative peace, wars were in reality small little battles. Post french revolution, in the name of democracy wars have reeked havoc on the world.

Greater wealth and more modern technology= increases means to wage war and destroy on a large scale.

Europe was too piss poor and backward to wage war on a large scale bewteen the end of the Roman Empire and the Middle Ages.
Notice it was called Empire because it had an Emperor. Not much democracy there.

[dropthatcash]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

You are absolutely right, Serge. No one comes close to Europeans for waging wars of near-total destruction, both among themselves and against others. Must be in the genes.

Really? Do you think the population of Africa stayed stagnant for 20,000 years because they used birth control LOL. The murder rate in Africa is 1600% higher than Europe and given the poor record keeping in Africa, the true rate must be substantially higher. The fact you don't see many definable wars in some part of the world have to do with lack of cohesive groups, capability, weaponry and the ability to supply large armies with supplies. Even today Africans have essentially no manufacturing base to supply an army with weapons and no government competent enough to do anything more than steal aid from U.S. and European charity.

Your claim of "No one comes close to Europeans for waging wars of near-total destruction..." ignore such atrocities as The Khmer Rouge that wiped out 21% of the Cambodian population in 3 years and Rwanda killing off 800,000 of it's people or 12% in Just one month. WWII for instance lasted 6 years and resulted in the deaths of 5% of the populations at war. Even when one factors in the wars, the life expectancy of a European over the last millennium was higher than any other population the world over.

[Dave Stratman]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Is this Neanderthal/homo sapien dichotomy really what we should be looking at?

For the most part, these kinds of articles from the likes of Science Daily are last gasps in defense of the tabula rasa theory of man. Anyone who reads Razib Khan's Gene Expression blog knows full well we are very close to identifying the specific genetic markers that cause Africans to be less intelligent, less able to control bodily impulses, and more violent. Is it because they don't have Neanderthal genes? Who knows? Who cares?

The simple fact of the matter is just as there are many different breeds of dogs and horses and every other species, so too are there different breeds of humans. Public policy must be oriented around the variable abilities and temperaments of our now ridiculously diverse society. Continuing to maintain the fiction that all people are born of equal ability is national suicide at this point.

I haven't read a statement as repulsive as this since Professors Jensen and Herrnstein were pushing their erronious and racist crap about IQ.

I'd be curious to know what public policies you recommend to deal with us "different breeds of humans."

[c1ue]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

I see, you're just blinded by ideology so much so that you would dismiss one of the most brilliant men who ever has lived.

If you're referring to Watson, I'd say your ability to judge other people's intelligence is thoroughly flawed.

Besides the afore mentioned blacks/intelligence comment - which cannot possibly be derived from any actual knowledge on Watson's part, he's also:

1) Watson has repeatedly supported genetic screening and genetic engineering in public lectures and interviews, arguing that stupidity is a disease and the "really stupid" bottom 10% of people should be cured.^[45] He has also suggested that beauty could be genetically engineered, saying "People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. I think it would be great."^[45]

2) "If you could find the gene which determines sexuality and a woman decides she doesn't want a homosexual child, well, let her."^[46]

3) While speaking at a conference in 2000, Watson had suggested a link between skin color and sex drive, hypothesizing that dark-skinned people have stronger libidos.^[48][50] His lecture, complete with slides of bikini-clad women, argued that extracts of melanin – which gives skin its color – had been found to boost subjects' sex drive. "That's why you have Latin lovers," he said, according to people who attended the lecture. "You've never heard of an English lover. Only an English patient."^[51]

For that matter, there is fairly well documented controversy over just how much Watson actually originally thought up with DNA.

If you are referring to Azib Khan - I have no familiarity with this person.

However, given your past statements, it is easy to see why you admire Watson.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

If you're referring to Watson, I'd say your ability to judge other people's intelligence is thoroughly flawed.

Besides the afore mentioned blacks/intelligence comment - which cannot possibly be derived from any actual knowledge on Watson's part, he's also:

1) Watson has repeatedly supported genetic screening and genetic engineering in public lectures and interviews, arguing that stupidity is a disease and the "really stupid" bottom 10% of people should be cured.^[45] He has also suggested that beauty could be genetically engineered, saying "People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. I think it would be great."^[45]

2) "If you could find the gene which determines sexuality and a woman decides she doesn't want a homosexual child, well, let her."^[46]

3) While speaking at a conference in 2000, Watson had suggested a link between skin color and sex drive, hypothesizing that dark-skinned people have stronger libidos.^[48][50] His lecture, complete with slides of bikini-clad women, argued that extracts of melanin – which gives skin its color – had been found to boost subjects' sex drive. "That's why you have Latin lovers," he said, according to people who attended the lecture. "You've never heard of an English lover. Only an English patient."^[51]

For that matter, there is fairly well documented controversy over just how much Watson actually originally thought up with DNA.

If you are referring to Azib Khan - I have no familiarity with this person.

However, given your past statements, it is easy to see why you admire Watson.

Thanks for the Wikipedia copy and paste.

I'm not really sure what is wrong with any of the comments that you've quoted. Some of them, particularly regarding point 3, are accepted fact at this point and been commented upon for well over a thousand years. That, actually, is sort of what I am getting at regarding your personal delusion. I mean, do you live in a remote part of Maine or something and have no experience with the real world? You might as well be telling me the sky is green, not blue.

The real tragedy for America is that people like yourself are really sort of a curious phenomenon unique to the west. It's not like anyone in China believes this nonsense. And this is why they will succeed and we will fail. We have literally millions of people like yourself who do not see how this society is literally collapsing under the weight of a rapidly reproducing underclass with intelligence insufficient to function in modern society.

I can only tell you this: there are enough people who do not believe in your god that this country will not peacefully become some third world hellhole. I hope you enjoy this very temporary peace while you can.

[dcarrigg]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

I will ignore Genghis Khan due to the fact that the posts above referred to western armed conflict/wars and the supposed savagery of the west, and khan was from the east.

The Carthaginian wars spanned many wars over a long period of time. They were between 2 democracies of Rome and Greece, even to this day they are exalted at the alter as the 'first democracy' and 'birthplace of democracy'. Once again democracy peeks its war mongering head even 2000 years ago.

The 30 years war, set up the infrastructure and mentality for modern national armies and nation states. When the treaties of westphalia were signed many of the modern concepts of the nation state were born, most importantly the idea of borders and boundaries. Here is a quote from wikipedia (written much better than I can) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War

"Peace of Westphalia changed the relationship of subjects to their rulers. In earlier times, people had tended to have overlapping political and religious loyalties. Now, it was agreed that the citizenry of a respective nation were subjected first and foremost to the laws and whims of their own respective government rather than to those of neighboring powers, be they religious or secular"

Allegiance was now to the state. In the past monarchs had to hire mercenaries or pay their citizens quite a bit to get them into armed conflict. The 30 years war brought an end to that. From that point on well maintained standing armies and the evolution of military equipment was born. Riling up some sentiment regarding liberty, freedom, commies, or terrorists was all that was needed to get the proles enlisted and ready to shoot. Now, that the infrastructure and new ideology was set up, all that was needed was a final spark to overthrow the monarchy: Enter the french revolution, Born out of this was Jacobinism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin_(politics), and a new elected elite fighting endless wars under the banner of democracy.

Anybody can put up pictures or historical dates, but analyzing the past requires skepticism and a suspension of our own present beliefs and biases to see the important aspects of society, philosophy, and ideology that created those events.

The common theme that I am proposing is that the real cause of these savage wars is not some western/white/european tendency for bloodshed and slavery as proposed by the pictures and commentators above but, the ideology of modern state democracy as born in the 1700-1800's

PS. If you are looking for democratic societies that have had success and peace I would refer you to japan, korea, and taiwan. But, these societies tend have a high future time preference and homogenous populations with an on the average higher iq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...0%E2%80%931799

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

I haven't read a statement as repulsive as this since Professors Jensen and Herrnstein were pushing their erronious and racist crap about IQ.

I'd be curious to know what public policies you recommend to deal with us "different breeds of humans."

Firstly, I'd like to say that you haven't read the Bell Curve. It's really an extremely dry book using statistics a person like yourself isn't capable of understanding. I'm sure you read many reviews that have colored your views, but had you read the book - it deals specifically with the public policy matters that are of utmost importance and to which I directly refer.

While millions of people like yourself obsess over building this castle in the sky that will lead your particular favored non-white group to prosperity, the reality on the ground is one of increasing criminality, dependence on the state, social dysfunction, and outright nihilism.

These people will not become doctors and lawyers as much as you want to believe it is evil racists like me who are preventing them from achieving their potential.

There is a place for the less intelligent, and it starts with a broad economy that accommodates people of every ability. Reviving industry alone would do wonders to giving meaningful employment to those of below average intelligence. Instilling a greater sense of hierarchy amongst the people is also essential, rather than maintaining this facade of freedom for the retail clerk who knows his place is to serve. It is human nature for the lesser to follow the better, but there must be an interrelationship that is far more respectful than that we have today. The resentment of the peasant classes today, is to me quite frightening. You clearly do not spend much time in cities - but even here in New York, the last truly peaceful city in America, the underclass is extraordinarily unhappy and unmotivated to function in society as "service workers" or modern slaves.

There are many solutions, but what matters most is your fantasy is coming to an end. Not only do we already understand in many ways the biological origins of intelligence and the lack thereof, there is simply no more public will or money to continue to throw money down the well to your god. The day of reckoning is coming, and we can either let the whole country turn into Detroit, or we can acknowledge reality and adapt to it as best we can.

The first step is accepting what should be obvious to anyone who observes nature: intelligence is hereditary.

[don]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

German culture was considered the flower of Europe. No one would argue that they weren't 'smart'. Who wouldn't posit their intelligence wasn't at least in part inherited. Their plan for Eastern Europe, inspired by America's Manifest Destiny, was slave labor, after eradicating the Slavic intelligentsia.

scratch another couple of smart guys . . .

I mention the Nazis because they were very big on eugenics. Very big. And they started at home. America was in many ways the home of eugenics but had a falling out during the 30s when sides were being chosen for the coming conflict under the banner of a War for Democracy.

[dcarrigg]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

And the countdown to rant and rave begins...

Fred?