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We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

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  • We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0718085329.htm

    Some of the human X chromosome originates from Neanderthals and is found exclusively in people outside Africa, according to an international team of researchers led by Damian Labuda of the Department of Pediatrics at the University of Montreal and the CHU Sainte-Justine Research Center. The research was published in the July issue of Molecular Biology and Evolution. "This confirms recent findings suggesting that the two populations interbred," says Dr. Labuda. His team places the timing of such intimate contacts and/or family ties early on, probably at the crossroads of the Middle East.

    Neanderthals, whose ancestors left Africa about 400,000 to 800,000 years ago, evolved in what is now mainly France, Spain, Germany and Russia, and are thought to have lived until about 30,000 years ago. Meanwhile, early modern humans left Africa about 80,000 to 50,000 years ago. The question on everyone's mind has always been whether the physically stronger Neanderthals, who possessed the gene for language and may have played the flute, were a separate species or could have interbred with modern humans. The answer is yes, the two lived in close association.

    "In addition, because our methods were totally independent of Neanderthal material, we can also conclude that previous results were not influenced by contaminating artifacts," adds Dr. Labuda.

    Dr. Labuda and his team almost a decade ago had identified a piece of DNA (called a haplotype) in the human X chromosome that seemed different and whose origins they questioned. When the Neanderthal genome was sequenced in 2010, they quickly compared 6000 chromosomes from all parts of the world to the Neanderthal haplotype. The Neanderthal sequence was present in peoples across all continents, except for sub-Saharan Africa, and including Australia.

    "There is little doubt that this haplotype is present because of mating with our ancestors and Neanderthals. This is a very nice result, and further analysis may help determine more details," says Dr. Nick Patterson, of the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard University, a major researcher in human ancestry who was not involved in this study.

    "Dr. Labuda and his colleagues were the first to identify a genetic variation in non-Africans that was likely to have come from an archaic population. This was done entirely without the Neanderthal genome sequence, but in light of the Neanderthal sequence, it is now clear that they were absolutely right!" adds Dr. David Reich, a Harvard Medical School geneticist, one of the principal researchers in the Neanderthal genome project.

    So, speculates Dr. Labuda, did these exchanges contribute to our success across the world? "Variability is very important for long-term survival of a species," says Dr. Labuda. "Every addition to the genome can be enriching." An interesting match, indeed.

    The study was supported by grants from the Canadian Institutes of Health Research.

  • #2
    Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

    One reason that current humans seem so different from the other animals is that there were many many other species that quite obviously graded into the apes, but they all went extinct... or we killed them... and so there seems to be a huge gap between us and the apes, but not too long ago, that was not so at all. All the diversity that has been lost. All the lives and experience, all gone. And we barely made it. There were genetic bottlenecks in which there were fewer than 10,000 humans left on the entire planet. Time and chance happeneth to them all...

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    • #3
      Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

      Is this Neanderthal/homo sapien dichotomy really what we should be looking at?

      For the most part, these kinds of articles from the likes of Science Daily are last gasps in defense of the tabula rasa theory of man. Anyone who reads Razib Khan's Gene Expression blog knows full well we are very close to identifying the specific genetic markers that cause Africans to be less intelligent, less able to control bodily impulses, and more violent. Is it because they don't have Neanderthal genes? Who knows? Who cares?

      The simple fact of the matter is just as there are many different breeds of dogs and horses and every other species, so too are there different breeds of humans. Public policy must be oriented around the variable abilities and temperaments of our now ridiculously diverse society. Continuing to maintain the fiction that all people are born of equal ability is national suicide at this point.
      Last edited by FRED; July 21, 2011, 02:02 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

        Genetics and evolution are endlessly fascinating... and very very complicated.

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        • #5
          Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

          Originally posted by Serge_Tomiko View Post
          Is this Neanderthal/homo sapien dichotomy really what we should be looking at?

          For the most part, these kinds of articles from the likes of Science Daily are last gasps in defense of the tabula rasa theory of man. Anyone who reads Razib Khan's Gene Expression blog knows full well we are very close to identifying the specific genetic markers that cause Africans to be less intelligent, less able to control bodily impulses, and more violent. Is it because they don't have Neanderthal genes? Who knows? Who cares?

          The simple fact of the matter is just as there are many different breeds of dogs and horses and every other species, so too are there different breeds of humans. Public policy must be oriented around the variable abilities and temperaments of our now ridiculously diverse society. Continuing to maintain the fiction that all people are born of equal ability is national suicide at this point.
          You are absolutely right, Serge. No one comes close to Europeans for waging wars of near-total destruction, both among themselves and against others. Must be in the genes.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

            Originally posted by Serge_Tomiko View Post
            Is this Neanderthal/homo sapien dichotomy really what we should be looking at?

            For the most part, these kinds of articles from the likes of Science Daily are last gasps in defense of the tabula rasa theory of man. Anyone who reads Razib Khan's Gene Expression blog knows full well we are very close to identifying the specific genetic markers that cause Africans to be less intelligent, less able to control bodily impulses, and more violent. Is it because they don't have Neanderthal genes? Who knows? Who cares?

            The simple fact of the matter is just as there are many different breeds of dogs and horses and every other species, so too are there different breeds of humans. Public policy must be oriented around the variable abilities and temperaments of our now ridiculously diverse society. Continuing to maintain the fiction that all people are born of equal ability is national suicide at this point.
            And the countdown to rant and rave begins...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

              Originally posted by Serge Tomiko
              Anyone who reads Razib Khan's Gene Expression blog knows full well we are very close to identifying the specific genetic markers that cause Africans to be less intelligent, less able to control bodily impulses, and more violent. Is it because they don't have Neanderthal genes? Who knows? Who cares?
              Other than Razib Khan being a nut job defender of Watson, who in turn is another nut job racist, the point of this article is simply that it is increasingly obvious that Darwin and Lamarck were both right.

              Evolution is genetic, but expression of genetics is shaped by the environment.

              Thus Darwin's theory was wrong in the sense that environment doesn't change the genes, while Lamarck was wrong in that the environment doesn't directly change the species.

              The genes for change already exist within the species and are allowed or suppressed due to environmental conditions.

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              • #8
                Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

                'Nut jobs' and Nobel winner who essentially discovered DNA is a 'wacist'?
                All because you say so, eh. What a strong , convincing argument you detail.
                Whiny name calling doesn't eliminate the observed fact that the averages of different human subgroups are
                different in their abilities to perform different tasks and functions.

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                • #9
                  Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

                  Originally posted by Rantly McTirade View Post
                  'Nut jobs' and Nobel winner who essentially discovered DNA is a 'wacist'?
                  All because you say so, eh. What a strong , convincing argument you detail.
                  Whiny name calling doesn't eliminate the observed fact that the averages of different human subgroups are
                  different in their abilities to perform different tasks and functions.
                  Given that intelligence is most strongly correlated with wealth, followed closely by culture, I'd say the assertion of a clear genetic disposition is more than a little bit of a stretch.

                  I'm also fascinated to hear how a chemical definition of DNA translates into sociology. Are you asserting that work with electron microscopes translates into demographic expertise?

                  That's right up there with saying Bono is a statesman because he's a rock star.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

                    Setting aside the divide-and-conquer domestic population minority use, exploiting foreign peoples against their will (surprisingly universal in their resistance ) necessitates reducing them to the Other, the less-than-us ideology. It makes it much easier to butcher them into compliance, or at least that's the hope. Occasionally they win, driving off the invaders. White was first used by the English to help subjugate the Irish, who were deemed not White. This ever-popular tactic has been used across time and across the globe, Europeans in particular being major proponents since Columbus.

                    a stroll down memory lane of the Most Enlightened Gene Pool . . .



                    all work and no play was not for these guardians of civilization . . .




                    Columbus encouraging the locals to get with it




                    Superior Efficiency, a hallmark of the superior mind . . .




                    an Inquisitive people . . .




                    sometimes foreigners were not enough . . .




                    the trains ran on time . . .




                    With ingenuity and efficiency perfected . . .to the tune of 60 million dead for this global engagement





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                    • #11
                      Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

                      Thank you for that, Don.

                      Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

                        Originally posted by don View Post
                        You are absolutely right, Serge. No one comes close to Europeans for waging wars of near-total destruction, both among themselves and against others. Must be in the genes.
                        The wars you must be referring to are those in the 20th century and the few in the 19th and 18th century. Its kind of funny how with the rise of democracy and massively destructive wars are correlated. The real turning point in the history of armed world conflict is the French revolution. Prior to the french revolution monarchies tended to keep relative peace, wars were in reality small little battles. Post french revolution, in the name of democracy wars have reeked havoc on the world.

                        Here are some resources (sometimes hoppe goes into crazy libertarian rants but, for the most part has a great analysis)

                        http://www.lewrockwell.com/hoppe/hoppe17.html

                        http://www.lewrockwell.com/hoppe/hoppe22.1.html

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EobSmwgVRuA

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkaWPVD0C3c

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuviH...feature=relmfu

                        Here is a bonus paper, connect the dots for yourself

                        http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-...d-borders.html

                        http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/ec...1postprint.pdf
                        Last edited by chr5648; July 20, 2011, 10:33 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

                          Citizen armies (French Revolution) who felt they had something in the game, and technology. The two together opened the way to Total War, barbarism raised to a new plateau, the systematic elimination of every resource the enemy possessed, including its population. Not that prior conflicts lacked the will to eradicate their enemies (think Carthage) but rather the numbers and the weaponry.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

                            Originally posted by chr5648
                            The wars you must be referring to are those in the 20th century and the few in the 19th and 18th century. Its kind of funny how with the rise of democracy and massively destructive wars are correlated.
                            This is completely untrue.

                            See Khan, Genghis.

                            Also the 30 years war which killed off 1/3 of Germany's entire population.

                            See also Carthage.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

                              I will ignore Genghis Khan due to the fact that the posts above referred to western armed conflict/wars and the supposed savagery of the west, and khan was from the east.

                              The Carthaginian wars spanned many wars over a long period of time. They were between 2 democracies of Rome and Greece, even to this day they are exalted at the alter as the 'first democracy' and 'birthplace of democracy'. Once again democracy peeks its war mongering head even 2000 years ago.

                              The 30 years war, set up the infrastructure and mentality for modern national armies and nation states. When the treaties of westphalia were signed many of the modern concepts of the nation state were born, most importantly the idea of borders and boundaries. Here is a quote from wikipedia (written much better than I can) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War

                              "Peace of Westphalia changed the relationship of subjects to their rulers. In earlier times, people had tended to have overlapping political and religious loyalties. Now, it was agreed that the citizenry of a respective nation were subjected first and foremost to the laws and whims of their own respective government rather than to those of neighboring powers, be they religious or secular"

                              Allegiance was now to the state. In the past monarchs had to hire mercenaries or pay their citizens quite a bit to get them into armed conflict. The 30 years war brought an end to that. From that point on well maintained standing armies and the evolution of military equipment was born. Riling up some sentiment regarding liberty, freedom, commies, or terrorists was all that was needed to get the proles enlisted and ready to shoot. Now, that the infrastructure and new ideology was set up, all that was needed was a final spark to overthrow the monarchy: Enter the french revolution, Born out of this was Jacobinism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin_(politics), and a new elected elite fighting endless wars under the banner of democracy.

                              Anybody can put up pictures or historical dates, but analyzing the past requires skepticism and a suspension of our own present beliefs and biases to see the important aspects of society, philosophy, and ideology that created those events.

                              The common theme that I am proposing is that the real cause of these savage wars is not some western/white/european tendency for bloodshed and slavery as proposed by the pictures and commentators above but, the ideology of modern state democracy as born in the 1700-1800's

                              PS. If you are looking for democratic societies that have had success and peace I would refer you to japan, korea, and taiwan. But, these societies tend have a high future time preference and homogenous populations with an on the average higher iq.

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