We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

[c1ue]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Thanks for the Wikipedia copy and paste.

I'm not really sure what is wrong with any of the comments that you've quoted. Some of them, particularly regarding point 3, are accepted fact at this point and been commented upon for well over a thousand years. That, actually, is sort of what I am getting at regarding your personal delusion. I mean, do you live in a remote part of Maine or something and have no experience with the real world? You might as well be telling me the sky is green, not blue.

The real tragedy for America is that people like yourself are really sort of a curious phenomenon unique to the west. It's not like anyone in China believes this nonsense. And this is why they will succeed and we will fail. We have literally millions of people like yourself who do not see how this society is literally collapsing under the weight of a rapidly reproducing underclass with intelligence insufficient to function in modern society.

I can only tell you this: there are enough people who do not believe in your god that this country will not peacefully become some third world hellhole. I hope you enjoy this very temporary peace while you can.

The problem you can't seem to understand is that to many people, especially including myself, you are within that bottom 10%.

The point isn't whether you are or not.

The point is that attempting to put science forward to justify prejudices doesn't mean you're smart. Attempting to use an appeal to authority (Nobel Prize) and trying to justify a nasty old man's prejudices only reveals your own.

I don't care about affirmative action. I don't believe in legislated equality of outcomes. I don't believe that men and women are physically equal.

But I also don't believe that black people are fundamentally more stupid, any more than I believe Asian people are fundamentally smarter than white people.

Both of these above statements can be justified using the appropriately short time frame of reference and biased measurements.

I have watched this area for decades and have seen no research nor empirical evidence of either.

So you can whine all you want about your Nietzchean will to power and blah blah blah. Ultimately all you're doing is spouting rubbish no better than some redneck screaming "The South will Rise Again", and for much the same reasons.

[Scot]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Ultimately all you're doing is spouting rubbish no better than some redneck screaming "The South will Rise Again", and for much the same reasons.

Nice dig against "the other", c1ue.

Isn't it great that there exists some ethnicity out there that can still serve as the target for your own bigotry? Without rural white men in the south, who'd be left to go after?

[lektrode]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Nice dig against "the other", c1ue.

Isn't it great that there exists some ethnicity out there that can still serve as the target for your own bigotry? Without rural white men in the south, who'd be left to go after?

oh no worries, mate - theres still plenty more - methinks you missed mr c1ue's point.

[Scot]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

oh no worries, mate - theres still plenty more - methinks you missed mr c1ue's point.

I think I know what clue's point is. My point is that c1ue is in no position to lecture someone else about over-generalizing about groups when he goes on to do the very same thing.

[touchring]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

The first step is accepting what should be obvious to anyone who observes nature: intelligence is hereditary.

If you go by this, then the Chinese are the most intelligent race in the world because half of modern world is invented by them. Paper, money, banks, newspaper, gun powder, cannons, books, pasta, college exams, matchsticks, toilet paper, ocean ships, they are all invented by the Chinese.

Success isn't rated on intelligence alone.

The Persians did not stop Alexander even though they were more advanced than the Greeks.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

If you go by this, then the Chinese are the most intelligent race in the world because half of modern world is invented by them. Paper, money, banks, newspaper, gun powder, cannons, books, pasta, college exams, matchsticks, toilet paper, ocean ships, they are all invented by the Chinese.

Success isn't rated on intelligence alone.

The Persians did not stop Alexander even though they were more advanced than the Greeks.

I would disagree with many of your supposed inventions, particularly "ocean ships", but as I said in another post - China has the highest national average IQ. Much fundamental research on intelligence is performed in China. Chinese people themselves, having not been indoctrinated with the ideals of political correctness, are well aware of these concepts. Hell, the last two Chinese nationals I seduced, both from Shanghai, brought up during our pillow talk moments how bizarre it is a great city like New York is infested with such a violent and destructive underclass.

So, what is the point of your post again? Are you trying to highlight how the US can't possibly compete with China as the average IQ of this country is quickly approaching that of Latin America?

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Don, this is the most simplistic kind of false analogy one can possibly make. And besides, hasn't anyone ever told you about Godwin's Law?

I am not advocating something like Manifest Destiny. I am simply describing reality.

Why don't you tell us where you live Don? Where did you grow up? How often, really, do you deal with low IQ blacks and hispanics outside of using them as slave labor?

Why don't you move to someplace like Detroit? Or Cincinatti? Or the South Side of Chicago?

Please, tell us how you are the pinnacle of tolerance and diversity.

[don]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Don, this is the most simplistic kind of false analogy one can possibly make. And besides, hasn't anyone ever told you about Godwin's Law?

I am not advocating something like Manifest Destiny. I am simply describing reality.

Why don't you tell us where you live Don? Where did you grow up? How often, really, do you deal with low IQ blacks and hispanics outside of using them as slave labor?

Why don't you move to someplace like Detroit? Or Cincinatti? Or the South Side of Chicago?

Please, tell us how you are the pinnacle of tolerance and diversity.

You actually have it ass backwards. I think any society, people, state, etc. is capable of crimes against humanity, for lack of a better phrase. My objection is raising one ethnic group to a place of superiority over the others. That fantasy historically has made things usually worse. (This is my final posting on this thread - back to the economy!)

[touchring]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

I would disagree with many of your supposed inventions, particularly "ocean ships", but as I said in another post - China has the highest national average IQ. Much fundamental research on intelligence is performed in China. Chinese people themselves, having not been indoctrinated with the ideals of political correctness, are well aware of these concepts. Hell, the last two Chinese nationals I seduced, both from Shanghai, brought up during our pillow talk moments how bizarre it is a great city like New York is infested with such a violent and destructive underclass.

So, what is the point of your post again? Are you trying to highlight how the US can't possibly compete with China as the average IQ of this country is quickly approaching that of Latin America?

My point is IQ is overrated.

[cjppjc]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...594#post200594

[Penguin]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Thanks for the post c1ue, it is an interesting one. Sorry that it had to turn into this mess though.

Sometime when I see things on the internet I scratch my head and wonder what in the world the one speaking is actually suggesting. Leaving aside the question of whether there is even a valid point hidden in their rants, I wonder just what the hell they are suggesting the 'solution' is... perhaps we are better off not knowing.

Will

[LazyBoy]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

I can't believe I'm engaging...

Firstly, I'd like to say that you haven't read the Bell Curve.

You like Bell curves? Good, maybe that will help.

There is a place for the less intelligent, and it starts with a broad economy that accommodates people of every ability. Reviving industry alone would do wonders to giving meaningful employment to those of below average intelligence.

A "broad economy that accommodates people of every ability" is something we could talk about. Nearly half the population is below average! And some of the intelligent ones are ignorant.

But there is nothing useful about associating traits with race. Even if you prove that one race is statistically less intelligent than another, there will be .... wait for it .... Bell curves! (Ta da!)

There are smart people of every race and dumb people of every race and Bell curves. There are hard workers of every race and lazy workers of every race and Bell curves. Etc.

I work in a research organization with very smart people from all over the world. How could it matter if the average IQ for people of their skin color is low or high? They're individuals.

It would be just as useful to make categories based on eye color or baldness or height or hand dominance. (We all know that tall lefties are smarter, but so what? )

The first step is accepting what should be obvious to anyone who observes nature: intelligence is hereditary.

Again, if this is true, there will be Bell curves. Some children of lower IQ parents will be smarter than some children of higher IQ parents. So what useful action can we take, knowing the parents IQ, or just the average IQ for the parent's race(s)?

Another thread went racist with your help recently. Later the discussion turned to Ashkenazi Jews and studies of their superior average intellegence, but you didn't sing their praises. Why not? Shall we put them at the top of the economy/society you would design? Or does there happen to be some reason other than superior average IQ that qualifies your race as superior?

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

My point is IQ is overrated.

Well, you failed to make that point, and in fact highlighted the exact opposite by using as your example the one country on earth where state policy effectively promotes organization around IQ, nevermind the fundamental research into the genetic origins.

Understanding what general intelligence predicts and what it doesn't is absolutely essential to understanding the world, and more importantly, finding realistic solutions to the myriad problems we face.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

I can't believe I'm engaging...


You like Bell curves? Good, maybe that will help.

What is that supposed to mean? Do you like the fact that 2 + 2 = 4?

A "broad economy that accommodates people of every ability" is something we could talk about. Nearly half the population is below average! And some of the intelligent ones are ignorant.

And your point is? This is not a question of comparison, it is a question of ability and scientific . The Supreme Court has recently ruled that you cannot execute a person with an IQ less than 80. That is effectively the average IQ for African Americans, which means half of them are legally incapable of making moral judgments. Now, as I said in another post, in China, the average is 107, and with a bell curve distribution that means far fewer people are effectively retarded. Which society would you rather live in? One where half the people don't know right from wrong, or the one where 15% of the population is so burdened?

But there is nothing useful about associating traits with race. Even if you prove that one race is statistically less intelligent than another, there will be .... wait for it .... Bell curves! (Ta da!)

I'm not specifically advocating race being terribly relevant. It's only relevant in the US because there is a large difference between black and white intelligence. There are of course large variations in population groups, and in countries without this racial divide it is much more easily accepted as fact - i.e. Asia. Further, liberals (i.e. those who believe in the tabula rasa theory of human nature) persist in MAKING race a major factor in American politics.

People like yourself are obsessed with finding racists under every rock. Every failure of the black community continues to be blamed on racists. There are presently, daily, apalling and vicious racist attacks by black people against others of every other race, yet it is never reported as such on the news.

But meanwhile, the black community is, as I said, literally falling apart. Things are far worse than they were prior to the civil rights "movement".

There are smart people of every race and dumb people of every race and Bell curves. There are hard workers of every race and lazy workers of every race and Bell curves. Etc.

Again, what is your point? The issue is not the existence of people of variable ability, but the relative quantity.

I work in a research organization with very smart people from all over the world. How could it matter if the average IQ for people of their skin color is low or high? They're individuals.

Again, the issue is public policy is not presently oriented towards your individualistic way of thinking, not that I think that would be a good thing. If you would like to make an effort to ban all racial quotas and all governmental decisions based in any way on race, then by all means do so. But that is not the world in which we live today.

It would be just as useful to make categories based on eye color or baldness or height or hand dominance. (We all know that tall lefties are smarter, but so what? )

No, it wouldn't, because those particular attributes are in fact not associated with general intelligence. Like many liberals, you seem to think this is somehow new information. While you may wish it was illegal to research intelligence, there are literally thousands upon thousands of studies. There is no longer any debate on the matter, this is one of the most studied aspects of humanity.

Again, if this is true, there will be Bell curves. Some children of lower IQ parents will be smarter than some children of higher IQ parents. So what useful action can we take, knowing the parents IQ, or just the average IQ for the parent's race(s)?

You really don't know what a Bell Curve is do you?

The useful action we can take, as I said, is to stop this fantasy that the government can change human biology. Not only do we spend far too much money attempting to fight nature, the charge of racism has been wielded with ever increasing frequency every time the evidence comes in the government has failed.

The primary effect of low intelligence seems to be limited ability to delay gratification, control impulses, and plan for the future. Those with an IQ below 90 absolutely require external moral guidance in most matters of life. "Freedom" is irrelevant to them because they cannot exercise it effectively.

Later the discussion turned to Ashkenazi Jews and studies of their superior average intellegence, but you didn't sing their praises. Why not? Shall we put them at the top of the economy/society you would design? Or does there happen to be some reason other than superior average IQ that qualifies your race as superior?

Ashkenazi Jews are already at the top of the present economy, and I would say it is in no small part to their very high average intelligence. Had you read the Bell Curve, you would note that 1) one of the authors is an Ashkenazi Jew and 2) the matter is discussed quite frequently.

A major point I am trying to make is the most intelligent always rule. It doesn't matter what system of society you have, that is the natural order of human society.

The key points are as follows:

1) there is a direct correlation between average IQ in a given geographic area and civilization as we know it. When the average IQ drops below 90, things become chaotic, anarchic, and unstable.
2) The central principle of philosophical liberalism that underlies Marxism, European "liberalism", libertarianism, capitalism, and all similar movements is that of the human nature being a product of socialization. This is incompatible with the realities of the world today.
3) The dysgenic trend is magnified by the cognitive elite congregating in certain parts of the world.
4) Superiority is irrelevant. What matters is survival. You seem to think the world will continue with several billion people with an IQ that is bordering on retardation. This will not happen. All your dreams and fantasies can't change the reality that hundreds of millions if not billions will die in your lifetime.
5) In the US, at least, we have the opportunity to return to reality. An industrial economy is a great first step. More disciplined education for those of lesser ability is a necessity. Things like corporeal punishment have to be reinstated. We no longer have the luxury of allowing white people the freedom to flee to the suburbs to escape the reality you find so horrid. With peak oil, we will have to return to cities and that means putting a stop to all the present problems that afflict them.

As for me? I don't think there is any hope for the US. There are too many people like yourself who just won't be able to accept reality when it slaps you in the face. I'm hopeful I can move to the Far East. I'd rather live with Chinese than deluded white people any day.

[FRED]

Re: We're all part Cave-Man (Neanderthal) except for the Africans

Is this Neanderthal/homo sapien dichotomy really what we should be looking at?

For the most part, these kinds of articles from the likes of Science Daily are last gasps in defense of the tabula rasa theory of man. Anyone who reads Razib Khan's Gene Expression blog knows full well we are very close to identifying the specific genetic markers that cause Africans to be less intelligent, less able to control bodily impulses, and more violent. Is it because they don't have Neanderthal genes? Who knows? Who cares?

The simple fact of the matter is just as there are many different breeds of dogs and horses and every other species, so too are there different breeds of humans. Public policy must be oriented around the variable abilities and temperaments of our now ridiculously diverse society. Continuing to maintain the fiction that all people are born of equal ability is national suicide at this point.

Have you considered the impact of you assertions on fellow members of the iTulip community who are African?

Would you be willing to have this conversation with a fellow member of the iTulip community face to face or are you only willing to do so protected by the anonymity of your forum user name?