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Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

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  • Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

    "This is a disaster," said Mark Miller, the Wisconsin Senate Democratic leader, in February after Republican Gov. Scott Walker proposed a budget bill that would curtail the collective bargaining powers of some public employees. Miller predicted catastrophe if the bill were to become law -- a charge repeated thousands of times by his fellow Democrats, union officials, and protesters in the streets.

    Now the bill is law, and we have some very early evidence of how it is working. And for one beleaguered Wisconsin school district, it's a godsend, not a disaster.

    The Kaukauna School District, in the Fox River Valley of Wisconsin near Appleton, has about 4,200 students and about 400 employees. It has struggled in recent times and this year faced a deficit of $400,000. But after the law went into effect, at 12:01 a.m. Wednesday, school officials put in place new policies they estimate will turn that $400,000 deficit into a $1.5 million surplus. And it's all because of the very provisions that union leaders predicted would be disastrous.

    In the past, teachers and other staff at Kaukauna were required to pay 10 percent of the cost of their health insurance coverage and none of their pension costs. Now, they'll pay 12.6 percent of the cost of their coverage (still well below rates in much of the private sector) and also contribute 5.8 percent of salary to their pensions. The changes will save the school board an estimated $1.2 million this year, according to board President Todd Arnoldussen.

    Of course, Wisconsin unions had offered to make benefit concessions during the budget fight. Wouldn't Kaukauna's money problems have been solved if Walker had just accepted those concessions and not demanded cutbacks in collective bargaining powers?

    "The monetary part of it is not the entire issue," says Arnoldussen, a political independent who won a spot on the board in a nonpartisan election. Indeed, some of the most important improvements in Kaukauna's outlook are because of the new limits on collective bargaining.

    In the past, Kaukauna's agreement with the teachers union required the school district to purchase health insurance coverage from something called WEA Trust -- a company created by the Wisconsin teachers union. "It was in the collective bargaining agreement that we could only negotiate with them," says Arnoldussen. "Well, you know what happens when you can only negotiate with one vendor." This year, WEA Trust told Kaukauna that it would face a significant increase in premiums.

    Now, the collective bargaining agreement is gone, and the school district is free to shop around for coverage. And all of a sudden, WEA Trust has changed its position. "With these changes, the schools could go out for bids, and lo and behold, WEA Trust said, 'We can match the lowest bid,'" says Republican state Rep. Jim Steineke, who represents the area and supports the Walker changes. At least for the moment, Kaukauna is staying with WEA Trust, but saving substantial amounts of money.

    Then there are work rules. "In the collective bargaining agreement, high school teachers only had to teach five periods a day, out of seven," says Arnoldussen. "Now, they're going to teach six." In addition, the collective bargaining agreement specified that teachers had to be in the school 37 1/2 hours a week. Now, it will be 40 hours.

    The changes mean Kaukauna can reduce the size of its classes -- from 31 students to 26 students in high school and from 26 students to 23 students in elementary school. In addition, there will be more teacher time for one-on-one sessions with troubled students. Those changes would not have been possible without the much-maligned changes in collective bargaining.

    Teachers' salaries will stay "relatively the same," Arnoldussen says, except for higher pension and health care payments. (The top salary is around $80,000 per year, with about $35,000 in additional benefits, for 184 days of work per year -- summers off.) Finally, the money saved will be used to hire a few more teachers and institute merit pay.

    It is impossible to overstate how bitter and ugly the Wisconsin fight has been, and that bitterness and ugliness continues to this day with efforts to recall senators and an unseemly battle inside the state Supreme Court. But the new law is now a reality, and Gov. Walker recently told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the measure will gain acceptance "with every day, week and month that goes by that the world doesn't fall apart."

    In the Kaukauna schools, the world is not only not falling apart -- it's getting better.

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/politi...chool-district
    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

  • #2
    Re: Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

    Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
    In the Kaukauna schools, the world is not only not falling apart -- it's getting better.
    While paying less for more and making people work more for less seems like a good idea, when it becomes a one way street the final destination is not going to be very pretty.

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    • #3
      Re: Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

      Well as I see it, we will eventually get to the point where we will either pay all people less or we can pay fewer people more each to work, and pay more people not to work. Do the math, there is not enough work for the number of workers. They call this "progress".

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      • #4
        Re: Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

        Originally posted by bungee View Post
        While paying less for more and making people work more for less seems like a good idea, when it becomes a one way street the final destination is not going to be very pretty.
        If they're overpaid to begin with - and an $80K salary plus $35k benefits for working 9 months a year seems to me like overpaying for a teacher - then the marketplace for teachers can bear a good deal of salary- and benefit- cutting per hour worked and still find plenty of takers, especially in this tough economy. They could easily halve the salary and benefit package and find plenty of people willing to work 9 months a year for $40k and $17.5K of benefits. And those who don't like it can seek employment elsewhere.

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        • #5
          Re: Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

          Originally posted by Mn_Mark View Post
          If they're overpaid to begin with - and an $80K salary plus $35k benefits for working 9 months a year seems to me like overpaying for a teacher - then the marketplace for teachers can bear a good deal of salary- and benefit- cutting per hour worked and still find plenty of takers, especially in this tough economy. They could easily halve the salary and benefit package and find plenty of people willing to work 9 months a year for $40k and $17.5K of benefits. And those who don't like it can seek employment elsewhere.
          Counting the number of days worked rather than the number of hours worked is not realistic. By that reckoning people who shift work 2 weeks on 2 weeks off only work 6 months of the year!

          I am sure you will always be able to find someone who will do pretty much any job ‘cheaper’. Just as China makes things ‘cheaper’. We all know that cheaper isn’t always better. You may think you have a bargain but 6 months later when it blows up / falls apart and you have to throw it in the bin and buy another one you realise it wasn’t such a great bargain in the first place. You can’t send kids back to school for another go when you find out your ‘cheaper’ teachers looked the part but couldn’t do the job.

          But judging by the standards perhaps we are already have some of the ‘cheaper’ teachers. I know for sure I wouldn’t touch a teaching job at $80k(£50k) + $35k(£21k) benefits.
          Last edited by bungee; July 05, 2011, 06:01 PM.

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          • #6
            Re: Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

            Quite frankly everyone is overpaid except the mexican. A CEO ofr 10M and up, a hedge fund manager making a billion dollars, why they think they should pay less for teachers is beyond me. If you really want good teachers pay them 125K a year and you'll see a bunch of great teachers and make students pay for school- suddenly you see more students studying. Also american students are at a great disadvantage having to incur laons and work and go to school. Most in Asia get waited on hand and foot till they finish their professional studies- sotall they do is study.

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            • #7
              Re: Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

              Originally posted by flintlock View Post
              ... Do the math, there is not enough work for the number of workers. They call this "progress".
              Historically, when this happens the excess population is sent off to war. If your side loses, the extra population are dead and no longer require work, food, or services. If your side wins, the extra population can make homes and work in the newly conquered areas. Ties in neatly with EJ's coming war.

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              • #8
                Re: Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

                [QUOTE=Master Shake;201230]
                In the Kaukauna schools, the world is not only not falling apart -- it's getting better.

                and my floors are squeaky clean now too! What a load of exaggerated one-sided crap! While I don't doubt the validity of some of these points, I can recognize poor journalism.

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                • #9
                  Re: Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

                  Originally posted by bungee View Post
                  I am sure you will always be able to find someone who will do pretty much any job ‘cheaper’. Just as China makes things ‘cheaper’. We all know that cheaper isn’t always better. Y
                  But judging by the standards perhaps we are already have some of the ‘cheaper’ teachers. I know for sure I wouldn’t touch a teaching job at $80k(£50k) + $35k(£21k) benefits.
                  If paying more resulted in a superior workforce, how did we end up with so many bankrupted banks and auto companies run by multi-million dollar CEO's? As far as needing you to teach, don't worry. We have 2000 teacher applicants for 8 positions in my district. I wonder why so many want to work such a "hard job" for peanut$$$???

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                  • #10
                    Re: Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

                    Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
                    Now the bill is law, and we have some very early evidence of how it is working. And for one beleaguered Wisconsin school district, it's a godsend, not a disaster.
                    Wow what a shitty puff piece. They cherry pick their example for the article and use dubious measures of "better" (WOO they work 6 instead of 5 days now...teaching what standardized tests?) with out mentioning that the true effects of this law won't be felt for years.

                    Driving down the wages for your workers won't do shit to help your economy since that is less money spent locally. At the same time the area will experience a "brain drain" as more people leave for greener pastures elsewhere rather than have their standard of living decline. This will of course cause the schooling quality to decline as well which will have far reaching effects on the students.

                    Originally posted by dropthatcash View Post
                    If paying more resulted in a superior workforce, how did we end up with so many bankrupted banks and auto companies run by multi-million dollar CEO's?
                    CEO's and board room members are not the work force, they are a teeny tiny privilidged section of society that is uncomparable to blue collar working class.

                    Originally posted by dropthatcash View Post
                    As far as needing you to teach, don't worry. We have 2000 teacher applicants for 8 positions in my district. I wonder why so many want to work such a "hard job" for peanut$$$???
                    Because desperate people will try anything? We also had 1 million people try to get 60k McDonald's jobs and even people working for free just to get a chance at a paying job, you gonna hold that up as yet another triumph of capitalism pricing the labor markets or what? Do you think slavery is a grand idea too? Anything to drive the costs down right?

                    "People who work for free are far hungrier than anybody who has a salary, so they're going to outperform, they're going to try to please, they're going to be creative," says Kelly Fallis, chief executive of Remote Stylist, a Toronto and New York-based startup that provides Web-based interior design services. "From a cost savings perspective, to get something off the ground, it's huge. Especially if you're a small business."
                    In the last three years, Fallis has used about 50 unpaid interns for duties in marketing, editorial, advertising, sales, account management and public relations. She's convinced it's the wave of the future in human resources. "Ten years from now, this is going to be the norm," she says.
                    Last edited by mesyn191; July 06, 2011, 01:55 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Sky Falling in Wisconsin......NOT!

                      Agreed that the piece needs to be written 5 years from now, when we can see how this really works as far as costs and quality of education.

                      i don't know how schools are funded everywhere, but in illinois the lion's share of school revenue comes from property taxes.
                      real-estate in the suburbs is expensive, and i would guess the tax burden just for the schools is about 1.5% annually. Given a median home price of 250k, works out to a tax of roughly 4000 a year just for the schools. And this mostly hits the middle class home owner whose wages are stagnant. My wife was a teacher and we need good teachers. But monopoly control over employment and high salaries does not guarantee that. The first thing that needs to be cut is the sports programs. How much does is take to run a suburban football team? Multiple coaches all making over 100k, insurance, facilities upkeep, transportation etc. Yes sports builds character, but can we do this with an intramural program?

                      Property taxes are crushing us here, after federal taxes it is my next largest budget item. Every year it marches up 5% and my salary is not keeping pace. I may soon have to find a second job to pay my tax burden, or move. Moving has high costs too, social as well as financial.

                      The masses of middle class here can no longer support the school system that was built on 1950's - 1970s real wages. So what is your solution? If you have the answer on how to bring back good paying jobs to the U.S. that would be the best solution as then joe six pack can afford the school system we have now. I think BHO would like to figure that out too.

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