Tesla Steps Up Production

[lektrode]

Re: 'Not As An Only Car'

Id buy one if it weren't for the winters here. The roadster is a bit pricey for a summer toy.

and then theres yet another issue - what, they going to send over a nice n toasty-warmed-up battery on below-zEErow (F) daze?

i suppose one could always put in some sort of block heater, but then if one feels like droppin 71grand for such a marvel, then guess the least of yer worries would be room in a heated garage for it - altho the standby-discharge rate of the batts gets to be the next one

but it really does get my hackles up with the notion of 7100 worth of tax credits for something like this - there really ought to be a limit on that credit - its nothing less than 'welfare for the rich' (nothing personal, mr radon)

[GRG55]

Re: 'Not As An Only Car'

and then theres yet another issue - what, they going to send over a nice n toasty-warmed-up battery on below-zEErow (F) daze?

i suppose one could always put in some sort of block heater, but then if one feels like droppin 71grand for such a marvel, then guess the least of yer worries would be room in a heated garage for it - altho the standby-discharge rate of the batts gets to be the next one

but it really does get my hackles up with the notion of 7100 worth of tax credits for something like this - there really ought to be a limit on that credit - its nothing less than 'welfare for the rich' (nothing personal, mr radon)

Who is going to park a $75k car outside in any kind of northern climate winter. The Model S is being sold (leased?) to high income earners in places like Southern California, where image is everything. There's lots of high income earners in North Dakota now. I doubt very many of them have traded their F150 for a Tesla.

[vt]

Re: 'Not As An Only Car'

Betcha their trucks are diesels

[charliebrown]

Re: Tesla Steps Up Production

hi all,

I just saw this article on zero-cred.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...il-bag-holders

In summary, Institutional holding of the float of TSLA shares has declined from 84% to 66% Since Jan 2013.
Also, there is a convertible bond issues for 660M of tsla bonds to convert to equity at $124 coming due
on Oct. 1.

[vt]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

Is this Tesla's cheaper model?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFdBcYN3sNw

[verdo]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

Is this Tesla's cheaper model?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFdBcYN3sNw

haha. awesome

[don]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

Oops, in Seattle . . .

[GRG55]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

Oops, in Seattle . . .

Must have been an electrical fire...

[don]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

Must have been an electrical fire...

What cells? Location, location, location . . .

[don]

Fire

SEATTLE (AP) — A fire that destroyed a Tesla electric car near Seattle began in the vehicle's battery pack, officials said Wednesday, creating challenges for firefighters who tried to put out the flames.

Company spokeswoman Liz Jarvis-Shean said the fire Tuesday was caused by a large metallic object hitting one of the battery pack's modules in the pricey Model S. The fire was contained to a small section at the front of the vehicle, she said, and no one was injured.

Shares of Tesla Motors Inc. fell more than 6 percent Wednesday after an Internet video showed flames spewing from the vehicle, which Tesla has touted as the safest car in America.

The liquid-cooled 85 kilowatt-hour battery in the Tesla Model S is mounted below the passenger compartment floor and uses lithium-ion chemistry similar to the batteries in laptop computers and mobile phones. Investors and companies have been particularly sensitive to the batteries' fire risks, especially given issues in recent years involving the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid car and Boeing's new 787 plane.

In an incident report released under Washington state's public records law, firefighters wrote that they appeared to have Tuesday's fire under control, but the flames reignited. Crews found that water seemed to intensify the fire, so they began using a dry chemical extinguisher.

After dismantling the front end of the vehicle and puncturing holes in the battery pack, responders used a circular saw to cut an access hole in the front section to apply water to the battery, according to documents. Only then was the fire extinguished.

The incident happened as the Tesla's driver was traveling southbound on state Route 167 through the Seattle suburb of Kent, said Trooper Chris Webb of the Washington State Patrol. The driver said he believed he had struck some metal debris on the freeway, so he exited the highway and the vehicle became disabled.

The driver, who did not return a phone call seeking comment, told authorities he began to smell something burning and then the vehicle caught fire.

Firefighters arrived within 3 minutes of the first call. It's not clear from records how long the firefighting lasted, but crews remained on scene for 2 1/2 hours.

Tesla said the flames were contained to the front of the $70,000 vehicle due to its design and construction.

"This was not a spontaneous event," Jarvis-Shean said. "Every indication we have at this point is that the fire was a result of the collision and the damage sustained through that."

There was too much damage from the fire to see what damage debris may have caused, Webb said.

The automobile website Jalopnik.com posted photos of the blaze that it says were taken by a reader, along with a video.
Shares of Palo Alto, Calif.-based Tesla have risen more than 400 percent this year. But some investors likely were alarmed that the fire could be an indication of a flaw in the company's battery packs, and Tesla shares fell $12.05 to $180.95 Wednesday.

Also contributing to the stock's decline was a rare analyst downgrade. R.W. Baird analyst Ben Kallo cut his rating on the stock from "Outperform" to "Neutral," telling investors that while he's still bullish on Tesla's long-term prospects, the company has "significant milestones" during the next 18 months that come with risk.

The company's battery system and the Model S itself have received rave reviews, including a top crash-test score from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and a tie for the highest auto rating ever recorded by Consumer Reports magazine.

But lithium-ion batteries have raised concerns in other vehicles.

Two years ago, battery fires broke out in three Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid cars after crash-testing, but NHTSA investigators determined that the Volt was no more risky than vehicles with conventional gasoline engines.

Officials from General Motors Co. and the government believed the fires were caused by coolant leaking from damaged plastic casing around the batteries after side-impact test crashes. At the time, they said there were no real-world fires in any Volts.

Still, the fires tarnished the Volt's reputation and cut into sales. Recently, though, sales have recovered. Sales are up about 3 percent this year, with GM selling about 17,000 Volts through September.

Earlier this year, Boeing Co.'s worldwide fleet of 787s was grounded because lithium-ion batteries overheated or caught fire. Flights resumed four months later after a revamped battery system was installed.

Under normal circumstances, investigators from NHTSA, the government's auto safety watchdog, would travel to Washington state to investigate the Tesla crash. But with the partial government shutdown, NHTSA's field investigations have been suspended.

[EJ]

Re: Fire

SEATTLE (AP) — A fire that destroyed a Tesla electric car near Seattle began in the vehicle's battery pack, officials said Wednesday, creating challenges for firefighters who tried to put out the flames.

Company spokeswoman Liz Jarvis-Shean said the fire Tuesday was caused by a large metallic object hitting one of the battery pack's modules in the pricey Model S. The fire was contained to a small section at the front of the vehicle, she said, and no one was injured.

Shares of Tesla Motors Inc. fell more than 6 percent Wednesday after an Internet video showed flames spewing from the vehicle, which Tesla has touted as the safest car in America.

The liquid-cooled 85 kilowatt-hour battery in the Tesla Model S is mounted below the passenger compartment floor and uses lithium-ion chemistry similar to the batteries in laptop computers and mobile phones. Investors and companies have been particularly sensitive to the batteries' fire risks, especially given issues in recent years involving the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid car and Boeing's new 787 plane.

In an incident report released under Washington state's public records law, firefighters wrote that they appeared to have Tuesday's fire under control, but the flames reignited. Crews found that water seemed to intensify the fire, so they began using a dry chemical extinguisher.

After dismantling the front end of the vehicle and puncturing holes in the battery pack, responders used a circular saw to cut an access hole in the front section to apply water to the battery, according to documents. Only then was the fire extinguished.

The incident happened as the Tesla's driver was traveling southbound on state Route 167 through the Seattle suburb of Kent, said Trooper Chris Webb of the Washington State Patrol. The driver said he believed he had struck some metal debris on the freeway, so he exited the highway and the vehicle became disabled.

The driver, who did not return a phone call seeking comment, told authorities he began to smell something burning and then the vehicle caught fire.

Firefighters arrived within 3 minutes of the first call. It's not clear from records how long the firefighting lasted, but crews remained on scene for 2 1/2 hours.

Tesla said the flames were contained to the front of the $70,000 vehicle due to its design and construction.

"This was not a spontaneous event," Jarvis-Shean said. "Every indication we have at this point is that the fire was a result of the collision and the damage sustained through that."

There was too much damage from the fire to see what damage debris may have caused, Webb said.

The automobile website Jalopnik.com posted photos of the blaze that it says were taken by a reader, along with a video.
Shares of Palo Alto, Calif.-based Tesla have risen more than 400 percent this year. But some investors likely were alarmed that the fire could be an indication of a flaw in the company's battery packs, and Tesla shares fell $12.05 to $180.95 Wednesday.

Also contributing to the stock's decline was a rare analyst downgrade. R.W. Baird analyst Ben Kallo cut his rating on the stock from "Outperform" to "Neutral," telling investors that while he's still bullish on Tesla's long-term prospects, the company has "significant milestones" during the next 18 months that come with risk.

The company's battery system and the Model S itself have received rave reviews, including a top crash-test score from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and a tie for the highest auto rating ever recorded by Consumer Reports magazine.

But lithium-ion batteries have raised concerns in other vehicles.

Two years ago, battery fires broke out in three Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid cars after crash-testing, but NHTSA investigators determined that the Volt was no more risky than vehicles with conventional gasoline engines.

Officials from General Motors Co. and the government believed the fires were caused by coolant leaking from damaged plastic casing around the batteries after side-impact test crashes. At the time, they said there were no real-world fires in any Volts.

Still, the fires tarnished the Volt's reputation and cut into sales. Recently, though, sales have recovered. Sales are up about 3 percent this year, with GM selling about 17,000 Volts through September.

Earlier this year, Boeing Co.'s worldwide fleet of 787s was grounded because lithium-ion batteries overheated or caught fire. Flights resumed four months later after a revamped battery system was installed.

Under normal circumstances, investigators from NHTSA, the government's auto safety watchdog, would travel to Washington state to investigate the Tesla crash. But with the partial government shutdown, NHTSA's field investigations have been suspended.

Based on knowledge I gained from doing extensive due diligence on Boston Power for a client I think the Tesla S battery fire points to a serious design flaw.

In order to prevent a module fire, each cell in each module should be fused such that the cell becomes an open circuit if a certain internal temperature threshold is exceeded. Judging by the extensive damage to the car's hood a number of cells or possibly all of the cells in a module exploded then caught fire. Shareholders need to worry that lack of a per-cell shut-off safety feature may force a recall of all vehicles for replacement of all battery packs.

[GRG55]

Re: Fire

SEATTLE (AP) — A fire that destroyed a Tesla electric car near Seattle began in the vehicle's battery pack, officials said Wednesday, creating challenges for firefighters who tried to put out the flames...

...The liquid-cooled 85 kilowatt-hour battery in the Tesla Model S is mounted below the passenger compartment floor and uses lithium-ion chemistry similar to the batteries in laptop computers and mobile phones...

...The driver, who did not return a phone call seeking comment, told authorities he began to smell something burning and then the vehicle caught fire...

...Tesla said the flames were contained to the front of the $70,000 vehicle due to its design and construction...

...

List of new Tesla options:

1) Underfloor heating...perfect for keeping your toes warm on those cold, damp Seattle mornings;
2) Ultra-fast direct flame windshield defrost...make your ice scraper neighbors envious;
3) Built in safety detection system...every Tesla passes the "smell test";
4) Built in BBQ...no need to own an F150 to have a tailgate party, while saving the environment (roadside metal igniter not included);
5) High intensity emergency response beacon...visible to Fire and EMS personnel for miles.

[shiny!]

Re: Fire

Based on knowledge I gained from doing extensive due diligence on Boston Power for a client I think the Tesla S battery fire points to a serious design flaw.

In order to prevent a module fire, each cell in each module should be fused such that the cell becomes an open circuit if a certain internal temperature threshold is exceeded. Judging by the extensive damage to the car's hood a number of cells or possibly all of the cells in a module exploded then caught fire. Shareholders need to worry that lack of a per-cell shut-off safety feature may force a recall of all vehicles for replacement of all battery packs.

Is it only lithium-ion batteries without this safety feature that catch on fire, or all types of car batteries? I've seen a building burn because the Li-ion battery in a golf cart parked beside it caught fire while charging. And we've all heard of cellphones and laptops catching on fire...

[Andreuccio]

Re: Fire

List of new Tesla options:

1) Underfloor heating...perfect for keeping your toes warm on those cold, damp Seattle mornings;
2) Ultra-fast direct flame windshield defrost...make your ice scraper neighbors envious;
3) Built in safety detection system...every Tesla passes the "smell test";
4) Built in BBQ...no need to own an F150 to have a tailgate party, while saving the environment (roadside metal igniter not included);
5) High intensity emergency response beacon...visible to Fire and EMS personnel for miles.

Don't those all come standard?

[EJ]

Re: Fire

Is it only lithium-ion batteries without this safety feature that catch on fire, or all types of car batteries? I've seen a building burn because the Li-ion battery in a golf cart parked beside it caught fire while charging. And we've all heard of cellphones and laptops catching on fire...

Internal Short Circuits: Potential
Causes And Testing Issues

A review of lithium-ion battery safety
research shows a strong focus on internal
short circuits. Some field failures resulting
in fires or explosions, leading to product
damage or personnel injury, have been
linked to an internal short circuit within
the lithium-ion battery.

However, as shown in Table 1, most
lithium-ion battery safety standards
and testing protocols do not specifically
include testing for internal short circuits.
In recent years, UL has partnered with key
battery research facilities such as Argonne
National Laboratories and the National
Aeronautic and Space Administration
to better understand the root causes
of internal short circuits. The focus of
our research has been on defining and
developing safety tests that assess the
propensity of a battery to experience a
short circuit under certain
abuse conditions.

Potential Causes Of Internal
Short Circuits

Although an internal short circuit may
have many causes, it is basically a
pathway between the cathode and
anode that allows for efficient but
unintended charge flow. This highly
localized charge flow results in joule
heating due to internal resistance,
with subsequent heating of the active
materials within the lithium-ion battery.
The increased heat may destabilize
the active materials, in turn starting a
self-sustaining exothermic reaction. The
subsequent heat and pressure build-up
within the cell may lead to catastrophic
structural failure of the battery casing
and the risk of additional combustion as
a result of exposure to outside air.
Lithium-ion batteries are designed with
integrated safety devices that open the
external electrical load in the event of an
over-current condition or relieve excessive
pressure build-up in the cell. However,
these safety devices are unable to
mitigate all internal cell fault situations,
such as an internal short circuit. For
products like electric vehicles, the
presence of hundreds of these batteries
requires more sophisticated safeguards
such as battery management systems.
Clearly, the desired goal is a test portfolio
(simulating a wide variety of abuse
conditions) that can assess the likelihood
of a battery to manifest a
short circuit.

Safety Issues for
Lithium-Ion Batteries