Tesla Steps Up Production

[GRG55]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

I think that is the approach that will make electric vehicles mainstream.

I do worry about the 3 wheel approach, though. I have heard the 3 wheelers are more likely to roll over
than 2 or 4 wheel vehicles. 2 wheelers can tilt to stabilize in turns.

Two wheel and four wheel vehicles use completely different methods to steer. Four wheelers use slip angle to generate the cornering vector. Two wheelers, like motorcycles, use centripetal acceleration.

Three wheelers, like the Arcimoto, that are front wheel drive suffer more acutely than rear-drive vehicles from a condition known as trailing throttle oversteer. Go into a corner a bit too fast, lift off the accelerator to slow down, and instantly the rear of the vehicle will try to beat the front wheels home. With only one rear wheel tire contact patch with the pavement, front wheel drive three wheelers are more susceptible to the results of this than four wheel front-drive cars.

Britain's Morgan Motor Company is also famous for producing three-wheelers (Peter Seller's character drove one in "The Party"). Their vehicle was patterned after motorcycles and it's the rear wheel that is driven. Morgan introduced a new three wheeler at the 2011 Geneva Auto Show, which maintains the rear wheel drive configuration of the original. Canada's Bombardier Corporation's Can Am Spyder three wheeler is also based on driving the single rear wheel.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

High style 3 wheelers are available today

[shiny!]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

Two wheel and four wheel vehicles use completely different methods to steer. Four wheelers use slip angle to generate the cornering vector. Two wheelers, like motorcycles, use centripetal acceleration.

Three wheelers, like the Arcimoto, that are front wheel drive suffer more acutely than rear-drive vehicles from a condition known as trailing throttle oversteer. Go into a corner a bit too fast, lift off the accelerator to slow down, and instantly the rear of the vehicle will try to beat the front wheels home. With only one rear wheel tire contact patch with the pavement, front wheel drive three wheelers are more susceptible to the results of this than four wheel front-drive cars.

Britain's Morgan Motor Company is also famous for producing three-wheelers (Peter Seller's character drove one in "The Party"). Their vehicle was patterned after motorcycles and it's the rear wheel that is driven. Morgan introduced a new three wheeler at the 2011 Geneva Auto Show, which maintains the rear wheel drive configuration of the original. Canada's Bombardier Corporation's Can Am Spyder three wheeler is also based on driving the single rear wheel.

I used to ride in this 1939 3-wheel Morgan when I was a kid. It was amazing! Saw one of the new ones the other day. There's a dealer in Scottsdale.
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[Jam]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

They emphasized the 'light weight' of the vehicle a number of times. I'm sorry, but 725kg (reduced from 900kg in the previous model) for a two-seater is hardly light-weight. Compare it to, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_126 that was popular in some European countries in the seventies and eighties; it seat four (at least nominally) and weighs 580-619 kg. It also routinely delivered 40-50 miles per gallon.

[GRG55]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

High style 3 wheelers are available today

That's a Campagna Motor's T-Rex, made in Montreal, Canada.

The model in the picture is a track version with a Kawasaki 1400cc engine. Produces more hp than the engine in my first VW Beetle. Costs Cdn $65k
Ride it like you stole it...

[GRG55]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

I used to ride in this 1939 3-wheel Morgan when I was a kid. It was amazing! Saw one of the new ones the other day. There's a dealer in Scottsdale.
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So it looks like you're going to come full circle

[shiny!]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

So it looks like you're going to come full circle

It would be fun, but not unless batteries improve. My commute is 60 miles round trip. Don't much fancy dragging an extension cord out of the office into the parking lot to charge it. Now if the MAIL battery ever becomes a reality I'll buy an Arcimoto in a heartbeat.

I wonder how electric vehicles will handle air conditioning? Oregon climate is not Phoenix.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

That's a Campagna Motor's T-Rex, made in Montreal, Canada.

The model in the picture is a track version with a Kawasaki 1400cc engine. Produces more hp than the engine in my first VW Beetle. Costs Cdn $65k
Ride it like you stole it...

Back in 2003 I saw one in traffic right downtown in Chicago on Lakeshore drive, I looked them up then.
The fella was, in fact, driving it like he stole it.

[santafe2]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

It would be fun, but not unless batteries improve. My commute is 60 miles round trip. Don't much fancy dragging an extension cord out of the office into the parking lot to charge it. Now if the MAIL battery ever becomes a reality I'll buy an Arcimoto in a heartbeat.

I wonder how electric vehicles will handle air conditioning? Oregon climate is not Phoenix.

While I almost never have to drive more than 40 miles a day I have been through a summer and winter in my Volt and I can say without reservation that an electric car is much more functional in weather where you run air conditioning than sub freezing weather. Average miles on 10 kWh of battery energy is over 40 in the summer and under 30 in very cold weather. On the few days last winter where the temperature was near zero-F the "engine" came on for the first few miles to help warm the batteries. Overall the car works well for me and is averaging about 250 mpg after 5,000 miles. I've no personal experience with the Tesla but a friend in LA has a Model S and loves it. Then again, I suppose any of us would love almost any $75,000 vehicle.

[santafe2]

Re: Tesla Steps Up Production

the tesla is too much car for me too. If i had a lot of money and was a green guy, I would get the volt. I could drive it on electricity most of the time around town and commute to work.
However unlike the tesla, the volt would still be viable for a long trip using heat or a/c.

The bottom line for me is total cost of ownership. at $36,000 i could never recap the additional cost in gas savings. Also I drive my cars into the ground. What is the repair costs
of the volt after 10,12,14 years? Cheap as my ford focus?

That was my thinking. We're in the middle of nowhere so I either drive about 25 miles a day or I have to drive a long distance and the Volt is a good solution for me. I didn't want a car that I couldn't drive to Denver or Phoenix without just pulling in and filling up with gasoline. That said, I've actually only been to a gas station 3 times in 7 months and the car only takes 6 gallons of gasoline. It's a little more than 2 gallons a month. As for 'green', I would not make a green argument for any new car, electric or otherwise but I like avoiding gas stations.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

KTM X-Bow

http://www.ktm.com/x-bow.html

[ST]

Re: Tesla Steps Up Production

The original run on the $109,000 Roadster was 2,500. The Model S is planned for an initial production run of 5,000, increasing to 20,000 by 2013. Pricing is $54,400 to $77,400, depending on battery capacity.

Details should be available online in a few days at SFGate.

likely this was already posted:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/au...tomobiles&_r=0

it caused the company great grief and started a public fight

[Polish_Silver]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

The Daily Planet did a feature story on the Arcimoto electric vehicle, including an interview with the developer about their view of the future of transportation. It starts about 1 minute 40 seconds in:

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/dai...12/#clip814414

Good video. I think the minimalist approach is right. I also like his idea of autonomous taxis ordered over the cell phone.
He also seemed to be saying that self driving cars would work better if all the cars were self driving, which makes a lot of sense. But they still have to avoid hitting the jay walkers.

[GRG55]

Re: Somebody gets it right!

KTM X-Bow

http://www.ktm.com/x-bow.html

This isn't a road car; it's a toy for the boyz. A modern day version of Colin Chapman's Lotus Super 7. Apparently they only make about 100 of these X-Bows each year.

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere"
--Colin Chapman--

[GRG55]

Re: Tesla Steps Up Production

The economic reality of vehicle manufacturing rears it ugly head again.

US government subsidies, a Chinese partner, celebrity owners...what could possibly go wrong...

Fisker Woes Grow on Staff Furloughs, Dongfeng’s Retreat

Mar 28, 2013 10:01 PM MT

Fisker Automotive Inc., a maker of luxury plug-in cars that’s seeking investors to fund operations, lost a potential automotive partner and furloughed employees for a week to save cash. Fisker also retained restructuring lawyers, according to a person familiar with the matter...

Looks like the restructuring news was correct. From ABC News:

Is Fisker Headed for a Solyndra-Like Collapse?

As a major financial deadline looms, a green car company that was approved for a $529 million loan from the U.S. Energy Department is keeping quiet about whether it could be headed towards a Solyndra-like collapse, following reports the company may be preparing for bankruptcy.

"We are not offering any official comment on the speculation around bankruptcy at this stage," Roger Ormisher, a spokesperson for the electric car company Fisker Automotive, told ABC News recently.

Ormisher was responding to questions about reports last week that Fisker had hired a prominent law firm to advise it on possible bankruptcy proceedings. The Anaheim, Calif.-based company recently disclosed that it had furloughed non-essential U.S. workers in March, a move made as the company is "in the process of identifying a strategic partner... [but] continuing to manage its day-to-day operations," Ormisher said.

Fisker Automotive entered the electric car market with hefty support from the U.S. Energy Department and backing from such celebs as Justin Bieber and Leonardo DiCaprio, but the company and its high-priced Fisker Karma have continued to skid financially.

If the California-based luxury carmaker goes bust, it will be the most high profile failure of an alternative energy firm backed by the Obama administration since the solar company Solyndra filed for bankruptcy in 2011.