Lawmakers to introduce bill to legalize marijuana

[Starving Steve]

Re: Lawmakers to introduce bill to legalize marijuana

Smoking cigarettes clearly increases your risk for lung cancer among many other deleterious things that it increases your risk for. The link between marijuana and lung cancer is MUCH weaker, if it is even there at all. Marijuana use does increase your risk for other types of cancer, but in general is not nearly the health risk that smoking tobacco is. Most physicians don't even know this.

Any smoke (which is the definition of filth or soot particles in the air) causes lung cancer when the smoke is breathed into the lungs. It doesn't matter if the smoke is from cigarettes, cigars, pot, forest fires, brush fires, garbage fires, coal in the furnace, or logs in the fireplace. Any smoke breathed into the lungs increases the risk of lung cancer, and substantially so.

I do not care what people do to their lungs, and I do not think that pot should be outlawed for any reason. However, pot does cause lung cancer, and pot does cause a break-down in the society that is horrible: gangs, corruption, violence, racketeering, terrorism, drug-dealing, money-laundering, arson, drive-by shootings, etc. I am very disappointed by what I see happening here on the West Coast, especially with the drug culture. So, pot is not the innocent drug that it is made-out to be by its proponents.

Now, if you want to smoke pot, be my guest. The words in Yiddish are: "Gey deharget!" which roughly translates to English as, "Go break your neck!" But don't be surprised if in a few years you end-up with serious lung disease or lung cancer. And don't be surprised if your friends are criminals, and don't be surprised if you are participating in criminal activity. Don't be surprised when the people around you are killed or in prison. And don't be surprised if you have nothing to show for your years of effort and your entire life--- except some pot plants in your bedroom and maybe some pills in your pocket.

This is the real truth about pot.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Lawmakers to introduce bill to legalize marijuana

Smoking cigarettes clearly increases your risk for lung cancer among many other deleterious things that it increases your risk for. The link between marijuana and lung cancer is MUCH weaker, if it is even there at all. Marijuana use does increase your risk for other types of cancer, but in general is not nearly the health risk that smoking tobacco is. Most physicians don't even know this.

This is absolutely false. There is nothing unique to tobacco that makes it increase the risk for cancer. Certain organic chemicals, when heated to a high temperature, form nitrosamines. It is these substances that cause cancer. Smoking marijuana demonstrates a lower risk because people tend to smoke much less of it than they do tobacco, but if one were to smoke a similar quantity - the risk would be identical.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: It's a human rights issue.

It's a human rights issue. If a person doesn't have the right to treat ones own body and life as they see fit, they haven't even the most basic of human rights. I don't advocate for the use of drugs, just for the right to self determination.

Ridiculous.

Your argument highlights the absurdity of the very concept of "human rights" which are increasingly irrelevant to a world of third world slums and filth.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: It's a human rights issue.

c1ue, you need to re-read your last sentence in the quote above several times. I don't think you've let it fully sink in. Self-determination ends when your first arrives at my nose--TRUE. The only thing you list in the examples that is relevant is the impaired function at driving, and possibly the impaired function at work if it involves the safe operation of large machinery.

Losses of productivity and dependence on welfare and other such highly-indirect aspects cannot be considered as appropriate excuses to end self-determination. If that were true, then you couldn't ever throw out any food, because the added demand increases the price I have to pay; nor could you ever go to the doctor for anything that wasn't life-threatening because you take up the valuable time of the doctor from helping me out, and etc.

Self determination ends when your fist arrives at my nose; it does not end when your actions have the slightest perceptible consequence on others.

You are repeating libertarian claptrap that has no basis in reality.

Not only is the world you envision impossible to implement (and has in fact never been implemented in the entire history of human existence), you demonstrate how you have absolutely no understanding of how or why human societies function as they do.

[Jay]

Re: Lawmakers to introduce bill to legalize marijuana

Any smoke (which is the definition of filth or soot particles in the air) causes lung cancer when the smoke is breathed into the lungs. It doesn't matter if the smoke is from cigarettes, cigars, pot, forest fires, brush fires, garbage fires, coal in the furnace, or logs in the fireplace. Any smoke breathed into the lungs increases the risk of lung cancer, and substantially so.

I do not care what people do to their lungs, and I do not think that pot should be outlawed for any reason. However, pot does cause lung cancer, and pot does cause a break-down in the society that is horrible: gangs, corruption, violence, racketeering, terrorism, drug-dealing, money-laundering, arson, drive-by shootings, etc. I am very disappointed by what I see happening here on the West Coast, especially with the drug culture. So, pot is not the innocent drug that it is made-out to be by its proponents.

Now, if you want to smoke pot, be my guest. The words in Yiddish are: "Gey deharget!" which roughly translates to English as, "Go break your neck!" But don't be surprised if in a few years you end-up with serious lung disease or lung cancer. And don't be surprised if your friends are criminals, and don't be surprised if you are participating in criminal activity. Don't be surprised when the people around you are killed or in prison. And don't be surprised if you have nothing to show for your years of effort and your entire life--- except some pot plants in your bedroom and maybe some pills in your pocket.

This is the real truth about pot.

I don't advocate smoking or not smoking pot. I advocate the truth. Please point me in the direction of well controlled studies that clearly show a link between marijuana smoking and lung cancer that is even remotely as close to the risk smoking cigarettes is. What you do in your own private time is of no interest to me.

[Jay]

Re: Lawmakers to introduce bill to legalize marijuana

Smoking marijuana demonstrates a lower risk because people tend to smoke much less of it than they do tobacco, but if one were to smoke a similar quantity - the risk would be identical.

OK, show me studies.

[flintlock]

Re: It's a human rights issue.

http://eliteselfimage.com/program_adult.html

[Ghent12]

Re: It's a human rights issue.

You are repeating libertarian claptrap that has no basis in reality.

Not only is the world you envision impossible to implement (and has in fact never been implemented in the entire history of human existence), you demonstrate how you have absolutely no understanding of how or why human societies function as they do.

Your ad hominem has no basis in this conversation. It is absolutely clear that drug prohibition as practiced in the United States has caused far more problems than any visible gain. Hell, even some of the stuff on Starving Steve's list, such as gangs, are caused by drug prohibition and not by the drugs themselves (black markets tend to create black "enforcers" of economic laws--that's how reality works).

I understand why people act and why human societies "function" as they do, and your vitriol against "libertarian" ideology doesn't advance any discussion whatsoever. As an example, take the message of mine that you quoted and compare it with what you are saying; you did nothing whatsoever to address the topic and only attacked a messenger presenting the argument that individuals should be considered valuable.

[flintlock]

Re: It's a human rights issue.

Your ad hominem has no basis in this conversation. It is absolutely clear that drug prohibition as practiced in the United States has caused far more problems than any visible gain. Hell, even some of the stuff on Starving Steve's list, such as gangs, are caused by drug prohibition and not by the drugs themselves (black markets tend to create black "enforcers" of economic laws--that's how reality works).

I understand why people act and why human societies "function" as they do, and your vitriol against "libertarian" ideology doesn't advance any discussion whatsoever. As an example, take the message of mine that you quoted and compare it with what you are saying; you did nothing whatsoever to address the topic and only attacked a messenger presenting the argument that individuals should be considered valuable.

Itulip is badly in need of a moderator in my opinion. It is starting to read like a YouTube comments section.

http://youtu.be/MOmLDGKJcLg

[DSpencer]

Re: It's a human rights issue.

Itulip is badly in need of a moderator in my opinion. It is starting to read like a YouTube comments section.

http://youtu.be/MOmLDGKJcLg

I've never seen a forum moderator who would go so far as to restrict ad hominem arguments or other illogical arguments. Usually they just restrict outrageously racist, profane, threatening etc behavior.

It would be an interesting experiment though to have a forum that tried to prohibit logical fallacies and claims with no data. People would probably suspect bias and maybe rightly so.

[FRED]

Re: It's a human rights issue.

I've never seen a forum moderator who would go so far as to restrict ad hominem arguments or other illogical arguments. Usually they just restrict outrageously racist, profane, threatening etc behavior.

It would be an interesting experiment though to have a forum that tried to prohibit logical fallacies and claims with no data. People would probably suspect bias and maybe rightly so.

Exactly right. Our concern is that members treat each other with respect. The general rule is never say anything to anyone on the iTulip forums that you would not say to their face, when sober.

[lektrode]

Re: It's a human rights issue.

Exactly right. Our concern is that members treat each other with respect. The general rule is never say anything to anyone on the iTulip forums that you would not say to their face, when sober.

+1
incivility in this type of 'arena' accomplishes nothing and detracts from the otherwise highly enlightening (not to mention entertaining) comments and observations

and while i'd be the first to admit some of (us ;) can get a bit carried away, i try always not to attack personally the other guys POV - i dont believe a moderator on the public side (news, anyway) is a good idea, as it would tend to stifle the otherwise wide-open discussions - and since one has to be logged-in to post, methinks this enforces a self-limiting 'control' factor that some of the other direct-audience-participation sites seem to lack or disregard.

just my .02

and: we're all adults here, right?