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Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

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  • Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

    From the AP:

    ATHENS, Greece — Greece’s prime minister, struggling to ensure Parliamentary approval for a crucial austerity bill, said Wednesday he would reshuffle his Cabinet and seek a vote of confidence for his new government this week, after coalition talks with opposition parties failed.

    George Papandreou has been struggling to contain an internal party revolt over the new austerity package that is the main condition for continued funding from an international bailout and avoiding a devastating default that would knock the global economy and undermine the future of the eurozone.

    ...

    The emergency talks began as riot police clashed with thousands of youths in the main square outside Parliament. Police fired repeated volleys of tear gas to repel rioters hurling firebombs and ripped-up paving stones. A crowd of youths smashed the windows of a luxury hotel in the square. More than 60 people were injured, including 36 police.

    ...

    The new austerity package, which runs two years beyond the current government’s mandate to 2015, has sparked widespread protests and a revolt from within Papandreou’s Socialist party. He saw his majority in the 300-seat Parliament reduced to five on Tuesday after one of his deputies rebelled and declared himself an independent. Another deputy has said he will not vote for the austerity package.

    But the measures must be passed by Parliament before the end of the month if debt-ridden Greece is to continue receiving funding from its international bailout.

    My impression is that this sucker is coming apart, and soon. The politics required to avoid a Greek default is failing at multiple points -- internally, Greece can't implement the austerity measures set as a condition for a further bailout, and externally, Germany and the ECB can't agree as to whether investors in Greek bonds will have to take haircuts. I'll go out on a limb and predict that this actually will fall apart this time. To my mind, given the current despondent atmosphere about the state of the recovery -- and the recent stock market losses -- this will likely result in further stock market declines.

    Disclaimer: I'm not very good at this, and no one should trade based upon my guess as to what might happen. But I wanted to lay down a marker about what I think is going to happen.

  • #2
    Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

    I think the politicians will put it to referendum to save their skin. If that happens the politicians get to save some face while also claiming that democracy trumps the interests of senior bond holders. Then it comes apart at the seams...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

      Originally posted by Chris View Post
      Then it comes apart at the seams...
      But is it tradeable?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence


        Left and right wing demonstrators clash in Athens's Syntagma Square

        Does that mean some of these guys are from the Greek banks

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

          Originally posted by don View Post
          Does that mean some of these guys are from the Greek banks
          I would have thought French banks...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

            Originally posted by ASH View Post
            I would have thought French banks...
            Close ... German banks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

              Originally posted by don View Post
              Close ... German banks.
              I was going off of Moody putting Credit Agricole, BNP Paribas and Societe Generale on review for a possible downgrade. But really, it's not just the banks of a single country. It looks like France is the biggest bag-holder, with Germany second. (Data is from Sept. 30th 2009, so not entirely current.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

                Originally posted by ASH View Post
                I was going off of Moody putting Credit Agricole, BNP Paribas and Societe Generale on review for a possible downgrade. But really, it's not just the banks of a single country. It looks like France is the biggest bag-holder, with Germany second. (Data is from Sept. 30th 2009, so not entirely current.)


                Thanks, but I do not understand this chart. Ireland is a smaller country than Greece. How can Ireland owe four times the amount?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

                  Originally posted by ASH View Post
                  But is it tradeable?
                  Certainly. Short EUR/JPY. You get exposure to the carry unwind as well as the Euro crisis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

                    Size of the country doesn't matter at all, in the end its how stupid the government and how greedy the bankers were that determines how much debt these countries can have. If they let you lever up 1,000,000:1 or more anything is possible really.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

                      Originally posted by touchring View Post
                      Thanks, but I do not understand this chart. Ireland is a smaller country than Greece. How can Ireland owe four times the amount?
                      I don't know the whole back story, but one reason may be that Ireland, until recently, enjoyed a much more dynamic economy than Greece. Ireland was referred to as the "Celtic tiger", in comparison to the "Asian tiger" economies, and attracted a lot of foreign capital. Note that the chart shows bank exposure to Irish debt -- it's not really a chart of how much these countries owe in total, but rather how much of what they owe is held by banks in foreign countries. So in a way, this says that the Irish had a lot more opportunity to raise capital from overseas banks than did the Greeks.

                      For what it's worth, this is a link to a Central Statistics Office report on their external debt. Ireland's gross external debt per capita is staggeringly high ($3.7T for fewer than 5M people), but they also hold a lot of foreign assets, so the CSO points out that Ireland's net external debt is a lot smaller ($210B). Still, it's somewhat amusing to see where they rank in per capita gross external debt ($516k) relative to Greece ($50k).
                      Last edited by ASH; June 16, 2011, 02:55 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

                        I'm in Greece now, have been for almost a year. I live on an island, so I don't have firsthand knowledge of what is going on in Athens, other than thru friends.

                        The protests you see are rather peaceful. The problem is that there is no clear message amongst the protesters. There are multiple groups of protesters protesting different issues. The "hooded ones" as they are called here, are the disruptive element. They are the so-called anarchists, many well educated. Some question their motives, and who may really be backing them.

                        Right now, the government is weak, and the Prime minister is doing whatever he can to get support to move forward on some sort of EU bailout package. It's difficult. Think Repubs v. Dems regarding the debt ceiling. That kind of conundrum. It's a combination of political posturing and pushing the envelope of the operational realities of the economic system.

                        Is there a solution? Can you trade on it? I don't know. I will be contacting my friends in Athens soon for their take. But this is big. I believe that Greece is on the edge, which means globally, the risks are high. I think that ultimately something will be done for Greece, maybe better terms for Greece, and the EU will not allow (as long as they can control the situation) the Euro to fall apart.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

                          I have a trade for you: buy the Greek bonds at just about 30%. The Illuminati have decided that Greece will stay in the euro and you will get every drachma back with interest.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

                            Very sorry to see this happen to your people, Bloomberg video:-
                            http://www.bloomberg.com/video/70951226/
                            Mike

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Greek coalition talks fail -- prime minister to seek vote of confidence

                              Originally posted by globaleconomicollaps View Post
                              I have a trade for you: buy the Greek bonds at just about 30%. The Illuminati have decided that Greece will stay in the euro and you will get every drachma back with interest.

                              How does one buy Greek bonds?

                              And what happens if Greece drops out of the Euro?
                              Last edited by touchring; June 16, 2011, 07:15 AM.

                              Comment

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