TEPCO has another big problem

[mooncliff]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

You'd think Hawaii could make steam for electricity from Kilauea, the world's most active volcano right there on the big island.
There's a stable lava lake with surface temps above 300 C, and frequent lava flows with core temps over 1,000 C

Also, the wells sometimes blow out. 1,000 degrees is too hot and rapidly degrades equipment.
I think we will substitute mostly by efficiency and photovoltaics.

[Kadriana]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

What I mean by "can't be bothered to drive 55" is not literal. I mean so many people cannot be bothered to do a single fricking thing and then just complain.

My dad's house uses net zero energy. My mom's house uses 7% of the US average and 20% of the neighborhood average ($50 a month for electricity, we dont have gas), so you can't just say "well, that is Hawaii". And it didn't cost anything. I made money doing it from the start. The savings from not having to pay for unnecessary energy is gravy.

Of course if people think there is nothing they can do about it, they never will.

The energy problems are not new. They have been going on for 30 years. But no one can be bothered to do anything about it until the US is importing 70% of its energy and now we run into a brick wall.

My husband and I decided to put some solar panels up to take advantage of all the tax benefits and have a backup power source. Well, the first thing you do is try and reduce all your power usage. We were easily able to reduce it by 50% quite easily by replacing some light bulbs, a couple of appliances and unplugging a few things. We could probably reduce it another 50% if we unplugged everything we weren't using, turned off the tv when we weren't watching it, be stricter about turning off the lights, line drying our clothes, etc. Hopefully by the end of the summer, we will be producing all the electricity we use. We still do propane for heat but if we're producing extra power from our solar panels, we might start supplementing with space heaters in bedrooms at night.

[lektrode]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

....Something similar is going on in car efficiency. The cars use less gas and so people drive more.

and/or the car mfr's take the increase in efficiency and use it for more horsepower, while MPG stagnates

[lektrode]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

Yes, there is geothermal, but there is currently no cable to get the electricity from the big island to honolulu. there would need to be a 200 mile undersea cable, which i think would cost around 4 billion dollars. it is easier to put photovoltaics on your roof. the transmission distance is zero. and more important, you get the money from the feed in tariff, not the electric company.

thats the 'funniest' thing about the PGV (puna geothermal venture) it was protested by nearly all the usual suspects when first proposed, protested when it went online, protested every time there is some odiferous emission etc - by the same crowd that protests just about everything that might help hawai`i free itself from the grip of plantation mentality (the superferry comes to mind here, as well)

why would it be necessary to build a transmission line to oahu to justify expansion of PGV's capability, when helco still gets most of its capacity from burning oil?

but agree on the PV on ones own roof = zee-row line losses = reduction of oil imports (also = reduction of heco profits = plantation mentality)

[lektrode]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

....We still do propane for heat but if we're producing extra power from our solar panels, we might start supplementing with space heaters in bedrooms at night.

IMHO, you'd be better off putting into batteries for days when there less sunshine (or the grid goes down)
last thing you want to do is make heat with PV.

[lektrode]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

As I posted, the NSP Building in downtown Minneapolis was heated entirely by heat wasted from its office machinery (type-writers and very large dinosaur computers in the early 1970s) and its very bright ceiling lights....

back in the daze of 40cent/gal gasoline maybe, but wasting that much power on producing waste heat to heat a building would be nuts today.

[Kadriana]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

IMHO, you'd be better off putting into batteries for days when there less sunshine (or the grid goes down)
last thing you want to do is make heat with PV.

Well, we do have a battery bank and I'm talking about days it's charged up. There are some weird laws in our state requiring the electric companies to get so much power from solar so they will actually pay you more to use it than sell it back to the grid. So if we get some really sunny time in the winter and it looks like we're going to produce more than we use, we'll probably do space heaters.

[lektrode]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

Well, we do have a battery bank and I'm talking about days it's charged up. There are some weird laws in our state requiring the electric companies to get so much power from solar so they will actually pay you more to use it than sell it back to the grid. So if we get some really sunny time in the winter and it looks like we're going to produce more than we use, we'll probably do space heaters.

those might be the days to do the optional laundry ;)

altho this seems to be a 'goodnews problem' you might consider something like this:
http://www.steffes.com/off-peak-heating/ets.html
as you then use/save the electric produced by the PV, but in thermal storage, so its available after the sun goes down - would think this more efficient use of the excess, but might not be cost effective, unless you could fabricate yerself...

[mooncliff]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

My husband and I decided to put some solar panels up to take advantage of all the tax benefits and have a backup power source. Well, the first thing you do is try and reduce all your power usage. We were easily able to reduce it by 50% quite easily by replacing some light bulbs, a couple of appliances and unplugging a few things. We could probably reduce it another 50% if we unplugged everything we weren't using, turned off the tv when we weren't watching it, be stricter about turning off the lights, line drying our clothes, etc. Hopefully by the end of the summer, we will be producing all the electricity we use. We still do propane for heat but if we're producing extra power from our solar panels, we might start supplementing with space heaters in bedrooms at night.

The high end TVs and air conditioners in Japan have motion sensors, so if no one is there, the TV dims and the air conditioner powers down or even turns off if there is no activity for hours. They can also be programmed to go on and off at particular times. These kind of features should become standard soon.

The air conditioners almost all heat and cool. There are special models, only costing a few hundred dollars more than regular models, that are specially designed for Hokkaido and very cold parts of Japan, which are as cold as New England. These have no problem extracting heat from outdoor air that is way below freezing.

I leave my air conditioner on at its lowest setting 24/7 for 3 months in the winter and 3 months in the summer at a cost of $300 and $300 a season at most. I found that it is most efficient when running slow and steady like that. This is for a 600 sq ft apartment. That is at a rate of 30 cents per kwh. At the typical US rate of 10 cents per kwh, that would mean $100 and $100 per year. With the current top of the line energy efficient models, that would be $50 and $50, or $100 for heating and cooling per year. The air conditioner at most costs $2,000 for the most expensive top of the line model. Compare that to having to put in a central heating and cooling system. You could put a unit in each room and it would be less than putting in a new boiler.

This is another example of why it is so difficult to compare costs of living between the US and Japan. You simply cannot look at per capita income, GDP, and other such measures; while such measures may have not changed in 20 years, the cost of temperature control has dropped by half.

Rents in Tokyo have dropped 10 to 60%, international telecom charges nearly to zero, TV prices by 80%, etc. Your train pass is still free, paid for by your company, and you dont need a car. A lot of restaurants have lowered prices. Health care is universal and does NOT have anything to do with employment, and if you cant pay, it is free. Although nominal GDP has not changed much over the last 20 years, purchasing power of the yen has doubled and so many things have gone down in cost that everything is twice as good as it was in the 1990s. And that is with a declining work force due to demographics, so actually, economic output per worker is up 30%. This is why I think most of these metrics are just nonsense and misleading. What matters is the goods and services people are receiving, and the kinds of goods and services they are receiving (a rolex is not the same as health care). Counting money is a very poor proxy for goods and services. Especially now that there are truly disruptive technologies that can slash costs by 50 to 90% without any change in standard of living. My dad's electric bill went from $3,000 a year to zero. Does that mean he has no electricity and is sitting in the dark? No, he installed photovoltaics.

[Starving Steve]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

back in the daze of 40cent/gal gasoline maybe, but wasting that much power on producing waste heat to heat a building would be nuts today.

I would generally agree that wasting anything is nuts to-day, especially energy. But remember, waste heat (from lighting, appliances, etc.) can offset your heating bill in winter, especially in cold climates.

The problem is that waste heat could be a double liability, not only for the wasted energy, but also if you have to air-condition the structure in order to remove the waste heat. So, waste heat helps in winter by lowering your heating bill, but waste heat hurts in summer by increasing your electric bill for air-conditioning.

The point is: every energy solution has to be examined in detail. What are the net-costs, and what are the net-benefits for each so-called "energy solution"? And this might involve breaking-off with the greens and thinking for yourself, and maybe out of their entire "green energy" or "alternative energy" paradigm.

[c1ue]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

mooncliff - it is wonderful that you reduce your residential electricity consumption.

But residential electricity consumption is 1/3 or less of overall electricity consumption.

How do you reduce the electricity consumption in the aluminum cans of coffee, juice, or soda that you drink?

How about the electricity used in processing sewage?

Electricity used when you ride the JR?

Conservation can only go so far.

Let's say all of Japan's residents reduce their electricity by 50%.

This still doesn't remove the need for existing nuclear power plants - overall electricity demand would fall at best 15% - with 15% more reduction needed to deadline all present nuclear power.

[Starving Steve]

Re: TEPCO has another big problem

June 7th, 2011: Scottish Power customers face 10% hike in their electric rates, and a 19% hike in their gas rates. This hike begins August 1, 2011 and continues into the fall.

Scottish Power blamed these increases on the costs of environmental and social programmes that the company has had to pay for. Scottish Power said that it couldn't absorb these costs forever.

This story is according to The Daily Record.

Sad to say, this is exactly what is going on with PG & E in California. The costs of unnecessarily de-commissioning nuclear- power plants and not building hydro-electric dams and power plants, not building new nuclear-power plants, the costs of meeting green targets such as targets from the California Air Resources Board, and the total failure of windmills and solar power to provide quantities of electric energy needed on the grid, all have combined to create much the same story as in the UK: a major hike in utility rates, regardless of hard-times and unemployment for people in California.

Maybe people might just become a bit angry at the Sierra Club and Greenpeace, and that entire bunch of extremists now in control of the environmental movement? Maybe having to choose between freezing in the dark or not eating for a week is exactly what it might take to make people mad enough to demand an accounting from the green movement. Maybe politicians that have allowed this to happen might now to be held to account as well, and maybe held to account for their alliance politically with these extremists in the green movement?