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  • 565 Daze

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Charles and Jill Segal have not made a mortgage payment in nearly five years -- but they continue to live in their five-bedroom West Palm Beach, Fla. home.

    Lynn, from St. Petersburg, Fla., has been living without paying for three years.

    In Thousand Oaks, Calif., an actor has missed 30 payments, and still, he has not lost his home.

    They're not alone.

    Some 4.2 million mortgage borrowers are either seriously delinquent or have had their cases referred to lawyers to pursue foreclosure auctions, according to LPS Applied Analytics. Of those, two-thirds have made no payments at all for at least a year, and nearly one-third have gone more than two years.

    These cases can go on and on. Nationwide, it takes an average of 565 days to foreclose on borrowers in default from their first missed payments to the final auction. In New York, the average is 800 days and in Florida, where the "robo-signing" issue is particularly combative, it's 807.

    If they want to fight evictions hard, borrowers can remain in their homes even longer while their cases are being worked through.

    The Segals have been doing that -- in court. They bought their home in 2003 with an adjustable rate mortgage. After a few years, their monthly payments tripled to $3,000, just as their home-inspection business was cratering.

    The Segals want the bank to modify the mortgage so payments are affordable, and they think the court will agree that their lender put them into a toxic loan.

    "The evidence will show that we were defrauded," said Jill Segal.

    Walk away from your mortgage? Time to get ruthless

    If they lose, of course, they'll finally have to leave. And, unfortunately, more than 50 months of missed mortgage payments hasn't translated into big savings.

    "It's very hard to save," said Jill Segal. "Our company's billing is 90% off and my husband is only working about four days a week."

    Lynn, who didn't want her last name used, purchased a two-bedroom on Tampa Bay in 1998 for $135,000.

    As the waterfront property's value skyrocketed, eventually reaching $750,000, she refinanced twice (once to expand a business), and took out a second mortgage. She now owes more than $600,000 on the home, which is worth only $235,000.

    Living in this foreclosure limbo is "Hell," Lynn said. "I feel like I'm locked in a box. I work for a financial organization and if this came out, it could cost me my job."

    She's still hoping to negotiate the loan. In the meantime, small things bother her. "A couple years ago, I lost my dog and I can't decide on getting a new one," she said.

    If she has to move, she can't be sure she'll go somewhere that allows pets.

    The actor from Thousand Oaks, Calif. began having problems during the screenwriters' strike in late 2007, followed by a threat of a strike by the Screen Actors Guild.

    He's working with his lender toward a mortgage modification, submitting page after page of documents, which the bank has often misplaced or waited so long to examine them that they had grown too old to use.

    His ideal outcome is get the loan modified and get all his late fees waived. He feels entitled to that because the bank advised him to stopped paying in the first place to qualify for one of the government's foreclosure programs. Before that, he had missed only one payment.

    Meanwhile, he has cobbled together some income streams -- small acting parts, teaching acting classes and even handyman work.

    "In a way, I feel like I'm lucky because I haven't had to pay any 'rent' for 30 months," he said.

    But he feels like he's always under a cloud. "I haven't slept in three years," he said. "It's terrifying. I have to have the ultimate poker face in front of my kids."

    10 dirt cheap housing markets

    Ruben Martinez, a Staten Island, N.Y., man trapped in a particularly bad adjustable rate mortgage, stopped paying more than three years ago. His attorney, Robert Brown, has managed to stave off one foreclosure.

    Martinez, still struggling to find work, has little in savings despite the missed payments. He's earning some income as a pastor and consulting for a non-profit family counseling organization.

    "There's pressure on me every day," he said. "I have a wife, three daughters and two grandchildren. Where are we going to live?"

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/09/real...t#storycontent

  • #2
    Re: 565 Daze

    Lynn, who didn't want her last name used, purchased a two-bedroom on Tampa Bay in 1998 for $135,000.

    As the waterfront property's value skyrocketed, eventually reaching $750,000, she refinanced twice (once to expand a business), and took out a second mortgage. She now owes more than $600,000 on the home, which is worth only $235,000.

    Living in this foreclosure limbo is "Hell," Lynn said. "I feel like I'm locked in a box. I work for a financial organization and if this came out, it could cost me my job."
    What an absolute joke.

    She works for a "financial organization" and used the money to expand a business so she's apparently not totally brain dead.

    Her house has INCREASED in value by $100,000!!!

    Yet she has managed to suck out hundreds of thousands of dollars by refinancing twice and apparently the money is all gone.

    This may be the least empathetic foreclosure story that I have heard yet.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 565 Daze

      Originally posted by DSpencer View Post
      What an absolute joke.

      She works for a "financial organization" and used the money to expand a business so she's apparently not totally brain dead.

      Her house has INCREASED in value by $100,000!!!

      Yet she has managed to suck out hundreds of thousands of dollars by refinancing twice and apparently the money is all gone.

      This may be the least empathetic foreclosure story that I have heard yet.
      Odious, isn't it. I question the 565 as well. How could that be a national average? Mortgage holders in large number were defaulting in 2006? As is obvious here at the 'tulip and elsewhere, nothing riles us like someone 'getting away' with not paying their debts. If it's someone in your neighborhood, apoplexy. My wife attempted to educate her van pool on the bankster ploys and plots and gave up with the general apathy ... until non-payee mortgages came up. The van was in flames.

      Here's the thing. Regardless of what I think, what my fellow 'tulipers think, or what the van pool thinks, this phenomenon is an effect and not a cause. Ignoring debt wasn't really a viable option until now. Understanding what changed, why it exists, is much more useful that emotional condemnation of the deadbeats. The deadbeats are part of our New Normal, like it or not. Not liking it won't make it go away. Understanding why its happening is a step in the right direction of personal salvation, from wealth preservation to daily living. The deadbeats are the growing sector of our society.

      We sorely need more discussions on dealing with this phenomenon on the 'tulip.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 565 Daze

        If you rob a bank of $500,000 you go to jail for a very long time. If you take $500,000 from a bank via mortgages and don't repay you are a victim worthy of sympathy? What nonsense!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 565 Daze

          Originally posted by don View Post
          .... Ignoring debt wasn't really a viable option until now. Understanding what changed, why it exists, is much more useful that emotional condemnation of the deadbeats. The deadbeats are part of our New Normal, like it or not. Not liking it won't make it go away. Understanding why its happening is a step in the right direction of personal salvation, from wealth preservation to daily living. The deadbeats are the growing sector of our society.

          We sorely need more discussions on dealing with this phenomenon on the 'tulip.
          Deadbeats and dodgy borrowers are hardly new. I'll bet the first bank met the first deadbeat on the first day of business. Banks know perfectly well that every crook, idiot and dreamer would like to borrow a large sum of money.

          It is the core function of the bank qualify borrowers in the first place, and swiftly repossess collateral in the second place. While it's interesting to debate the morality of the deadbeat squatters, it serves no practical purpose. It's human nature and won't change. The banks are the place to change things - they need to stop foot-dragging, evict the deadbeats and take possession of the houses.

          Many threads here have suggested the bankers are engaged in extend-and-pretend to avoid booking the losses on these loans. Looks like a cozy arrangement between the deadbeats, who live free for a couple years, and the banksters, who avoid taking big losses and small bonuses.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 565 Daze

            Originally posted by Chknrnchr View Post
            If you rob a bank of $500,000 you go to jail for a very long time. If you take $500,000 from a bank via mortgages and don't repay you are a victim worthy of sympathy? What nonsense!
            That's a very insightful response. When you rob a bank, you get a heavy sentence to serve. When you assist the banks in their public fraud, you get to live for free. Well done.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 565 Daze

              Originally posted by don View Post
              That's a very insightful response. When you rob a bank, you get a heavy sentence to serve. When you assist the banks in their public fraud, you get to live for free. Well done.
              _and_ you get a bonus....

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 565 Daze

                This arguement has been played out here many times before. Maybe a better way to look at it is, why do I react to news like this the way I do.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 565 Daze

                  Originally posted by cjppjc View Post
                  This arguement has been played out here many times before. Maybe a better way to look at it is, why do I react to news like this the way I do.
                  Partly because its reduced to the human level. The guy on the corner could be living free. I see him out in front of his house when I come home (dead tired) from work. The banksters seem so far away.

                  A part that's not discussed is, in what way will the growing subclass of deadbeats, for lack of a better word, impact on us 'tulipers? As stated above, the deadbeats are a given. How do we figure that in our fiscal outlook?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 565 Daze

                    Originally posted by don View Post
                    ... As stated above, the deadbeats are a given. How do we figure that in our fiscal outlook?
                    It's an interesting question for the economics. To the delinquent borrower, this is a cash subsidy. Like mortgage checks dropped from Ben's helicopter. Keynesians would say this will stimulate their consumption. The economic and fiscal effects of the banks extended-and-pretended books are beyond my meager abilities.

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