Murder city - the future?

[dcarrigg]

Re: Murder city - the future?

What is the source of this graph?

I ask because I had posted specifically on remittances from Mexico not long ago.

The data from that post contradicts the remittance behavior in this graph - while remittances are down starting roughly 2007, they were rising every year until then.

This isn't necessarily a contradiction of what is shown - but the impact is far different given the absolute numbers.

Remittances to Mexico went from approx. $13T in 2004 to a peak of $26T in 2007, then $25T in 2008, then on pace for $22.5T in 2010. Hardly the same drop as housing starts:

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...nces-to-Mexico

You mean Billion rather than Trillion here, no? The graph startled me too.

[housingcrashsurvivor]

Re: Murder city - the future?

I remember a substantial article that correlated reducing crime statistics with abortion. I would not be too quick to dismiss it. It presented a pretty compelling case if I recall correctly. Think of it in the context of which age group is statistically most likely to commit crime, and how that tendency reduces with maturity. Then consider the fact we had a boom for a while of kids in that age group, which then tapered off significantly due to easily available abortion. I'm not saying this concept is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but don't dismiss it without reviewing the case that was presented.

The book "Freakonomics" makes a compelling argument relating the decrease in crime rates to legalization of abortion (Roe Vs Wade case) giving references to literature and case studies. He argues that before Roe Vs Wade, it was predominantly the daughter's of middle or upper-class families who could arrange and afford a safe illegal abortion. But, after the Roe Vs Wade decision, woman who were unmarried or in her teens or poor or all three were most likely to take advantage. Had they been born, most likely those kids would have had a bad future, it led to decrease in crimes (a decade or two later).

So then by...

http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

Who's having abortions (religion)?

Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".

Who's having abortions (income)?
Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.

...it looks like it is mostly middle class Christians breeding criminals, huh?

Care to rethink that theory now?

[flintlock]

Re: Murder city - the future?

Holy good God! I had never seen this. I figured it would be bad - but this is beyond what I imagined. There's a feature article here - just needs some fleshing out.

Its exactly what I imagined. Further evidence unemployment stats are cooked.

[DSpencer]

Re: Murder city - the future?

So then by...

http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

Who's having abortions (religion)?

Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".

Who's having abortions (income)?
Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.

...it looks like it is mostly middle class Christians breeding criminals, huh?

Care to rethink that theory now?

I'm not convinced either way on the overall abortion/crime debate, but these stats are hard to interpret without more info. What percent of the overall population is Christian vs Jewish or makes x amount of money? I think the more relevant question is what percent of pregnancies are aborted for a particular group.

[housingcrashsurvivor]

Re: Murder city - the future?

I'm not convinced either way on the overall abortion/crime debate, but these stats are hard to interpret without more info. What percent of the overall population is Christian vs Jewish or makes x amount of money? I think the more relevant question is what percent of pregnancies are aborted for a particular group.

Respectfully, you have already been provided the information you request.

The "percent of pregnancies (which are) aborted for (the religious) group(s)" are: Protestants @ 37.4%, Catholics @ 31.3% etc. adding up to 76.3% of all abortions occurring amongst the moral majority, as opposed to just 23.7% being aborted by the heathens. Meanwhile, insert those figures into that criminal premise proposed by others that those who have been aborted would have developed into they who create crime, and, well, interpretation of the premise is no longer quite so difficult.

[DSpencer]

Re: Murder city - the future?

Respectfully, you have already been provided the information you request.

The "percent of pregnancies (which are) aborted for (the religious) group(s)" are: Protestants @ 37.4%, Catholics @ 31.3% etc. adding up to 76.3% of all abortions occurring amongst the moral majority, as opposed to just 23.7% being aborted by the heathens. Meanwhile, insert those figures into that criminal premise proposed by others that those who have been aborted would have developed into they who create crime, and, well, interpretation of the premise is no longer quite so difficult.

I worded that poorly. What I meant was: what percent of group x women who get pregnant have an abortion. The point being that for example, if "heathens" account for 8% of pregnancies but 24% of abortions they are aborting their pregancies at a higher than avg rate. Maybe heathens abort 50% of their pregnancies but only make up a small precent of the population.

Personally I doubt that religious affiliation is a real strong indicator, especially because lots of people are "Christian" without living up to that name whatsoever. I bet theres a lot of bibles being read on death row.

[fallout]

Re: Murder city - the future?

Holy good God! I had never seen this. I figured it would be bad - but this is beyond what I imagined. There's a feature article here - just needs some fleshing out.

Remittances from Mexicans abroad made up the number one source of Mexican GDP in 2006, with PEMEX at #2 (discussed at length on The Oil Drum a few years ago). I do not have more current data.

[c1ue]

Re: Murder city - the future?

You mean Billion rather than Trillion here, no? The graph startled me too.

Indeed - sorry I'm already into the hyperinflationary mindset...

[housingcrashsurvivor]

Re: Murder city - the future?

I worded that poorly. What I meant was: what percent of group x women who get pregnant have an abortion. The point being that for example, if "heathens" account for 8% of pregnancies but 24% of abortions they are aborting their pregancies at a higher than avg rate. Maybe heathens abort 50% of their pregnancies but only make up a small precent of the population.

Personally I doubt that religious affiliation is a real strong indicator, especially because lots of people are "Christian" without living up to that name whatsoever. I bet theres a lot of bibles being read on death row.

That was much better worded. Thank you for the clarification. Perhaps the heathens are using contraception less than the Catholics. I see your point and I suppose that hole can be dug as deep as anyone pleases.

Hey, all I did was provide some stats to plug into the premise.

[mikedev10]

Re: Murder city - the future?

calderon ramping up the drug war in mexico correlates quite well with the violence no? as does our own war on drugs and incarceration rates?

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Murder city - the future?

I think the explanation is reasonable simple. Jailing criminals prevents further crime. This argument that abortion has reduced crime is spurious at best.

Of course it's not spurious.

Criminal behavior is associated with low IQ. Unplanned pregnancy and sexual promiscuity are also associated with low IQ.

What group commits the most crime per capita and has the largest number of abortions per capita? I'll let you take a guess.

Saying that abortion doesn't stop crime is as ridiculous as saying intelligence isn't heritable. Only bourgeois Americans, shielded from the realities of our anarchic cities, can possibly hold such views.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Murder city - the future?

Birth control pills don't hurt.

The problem is the people who commit crimes can't be trusted to take them.

There is only one way for the future: eugenics or massive famine and war.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Murder city - the future?

Yes, I think it made brief references to Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, Canada and he gives example of Romania, after Nicolae Ceausescu declared abortion illegal in 1960's.

There was almost no crime in Scandinavia until immigration was allowed. All of the places you mention still have very low immigration and low crime in comparison to the US. Or, in the case of places like Canada and Australia, they require educational requirements that dramatically reduce the numbers of the least intelligent immigrant groups that commit all the crimes in America. Even Romania is a unique case given how impoverished the country is. The GDP per capita is on par with many other countries where the sheer barbarism and chaos is far greater.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Murder city - the future?

This is a bit off topic but since the last post refers back to the BIG them of the collapsing FIRE economy, I have a question to put out there and get some opinions. I completely beleive the Itulip thesis regarding the FIRE economy's failure and government willingness to try anything to prevent it. The question is what should someone, who had a long and prosperopus career, smack in the middle of the FIRE economy, do for the second half of his working years - what industries will be flourishing in the future?

I don't think you're grasping the severity of the problem here.

Unless your career was as a solider, assassin, doctor, blacksmith, carpenter, or something similar - your prosperous career will likely be of little relevance.

Focus on your community. Don't be a typical atomized American. You won't survive.

[housingcrashsurvivor]

Re: Murder city - the future?

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