Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

[Mn_Mark]

http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energ...cle3144827.ece

“In some way a new kind of physics is taking place. It’s enigmatic, but probably no new laws of nature are involved. We believe it is possible to explain the process with known laws of nature,” said Hanno Essén, associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and chairman member of the board (chairman until April 2) of the Swedish Skeptics Society.


....

At the trial in Bologna, Kullander and Essén could investigate the energy catalyzer with the surrounding insulation and the lead shielding stripped away. The exterior design is described in their report.
The reactor itself, which is loaded with the nickel powder and secret catalysts pressurized with hydrogen, has an estimated volume of 50 cubic centimeters (3.2 cubic inches). The reactor is made of stainless steel.
A copper tube surrounds the steel reactor. The water to be heated flows between the steel and the copper. In operation, the construction is also surrounded by insulation and a lead shielding with a thickness of approximately two centimeters (0.8 inches).

Before starting, Kullander and Essén calibrated the water flow and estimated it at 6.5 kg per hour. The power required to heat the flowing water from 18 degrees and convert it completely into steam was calculated to 4.7 kW.
They also filled the reactor with hydrogen at a pressure of about 25 bars. The reactor was according to Rossi loaded with 50 grams of nickel powder.
As in previous trials the process was ‘ignited’ with an electrical resistance. Input power was 330 watts, of which about 30 watts were required to operate the electronics.

A phenomenon that Kullander and Essén noted was that the curve for the water temperature at the output showed a steady increase up to about 60 degrees centigrade, after which the increase escalated.
“The curve then became steeper, it clearly had a new derivative. At the same time there was no increase in power consumption, it rather decreased when it got warmer,” said Essén.
In their report they note that it took nine minutes to go from 20 to 60 degrees centigrade, which corresponds to the heating from the input electrical power. Going from 60 to 97.5 degrees centigrade, by contrast, just took four minutes.

Throughout the experiment Kullander and Essén had the opportunity to examine the equipment.
“We checked everything that could be checked, and we could walk around freely and have a look at most of the equipment,” said Essén.
“We looked specifically into the big control unit (with electronics) and it contains mostly rectifiers and passive components – there was nothing of interest in it,” said Kullander, which is in line of what Dr. Levi previously noted.

...

“My belief that there is an energy development far beyond what one would expect has been strengthened significantly as I have had the opportunity to see the process for myself and perform measurements,” said Kullander.
“Everything that we’ve found so far fits together. There is nothing that seems to be strange. All people seem to be honest and competent,” Essén added.

...

Ny Teknik: For how long has the powder supposedly been used in the process?
Kullander: The powder has reportedly been used for 2.5 months continuously with an output of 10 kW (according to Rossi). It corresponds to a total energy of 18 MWh, with a consumption of up to 100 grams of nickel and two grams of hydrogen. If the production had been done with oil, two tons of oil would have been required.

If I understand correctly, he is saying that in this process about 15 nickel coins' weight of nickel (100 grams) is producing as much energy as two tons of oil. Pretty impressive.

[lektrode]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energ...cle3144827.ece
If I understand correctly, he is saying that in this process about 15 nickel coins' weight of nickel (100 grams) is producing as much energy as two tons of oil. Pretty impressive.

Mr c1ue?

[Adeptus]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

Ok, just let me know when "It's time at last to sell silver... and buy nickel!" ;-)

All semi-joking aside, the global impact of such a (clean?) gigantic and near free energy source would be transformational for the human race. I'm thinking at least 5x more revolutionary and impactful than the Internet or industrial revolution upon global human society. The possibility of world peace (due to no more oil wars), and end of starvation for 3rd world countries (free energy = cheap mass farming), and almost by proxy end of 3rd world countries/poverty becomes possible to imagine.

Perhaps the concept of 'free-energy' or near-free-energy was one of the reasons our Pythonic Cow, went on to greener pastures associated with UFO reverse engineering for the purpose of identifying sources of near-free-energy.

Adeptus

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I truly hope Mr. Rossi has discovered a historic new energy source, but I'm not expecting it to be verified as true.

If his worry is getting personal credit for his genius down through history, he should publish and get open peer review. In modern science, that means disclosing all the details and letting other people build your device, test it, and confirm your results.

If his worry is getting his valuable invention stolen and not getting rich, he can keep his secret and sell his amazing free power. If the gizmo really does work, why doesn't he just build a couple hundred of them, put them in his basement, and get rich selling electricity? In a couple years he could bootstrap his business into a major power producer raking in billions.

Perhaps I'm too cynical, but he strikes me as a crackpot inventor.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

Ok, just let me know when "It's time at last to sell silver... and buy nickel!" ;-)

All semi-joking aside, the global impact of such a (clean?) gigantic and near free energy source would be transformational for the human race. I'm thinking at least 5x more revolutionary and impactful than the Internet or industrial revolution upon global human society. The possibility of world peace (due to no more oil wars), and end of starvation for 3rd world countries (free energy = cheap mass farming), and almost by proxy end of 3rd world countries/poverty becomes possible to imagine.

Perhaps the concept of 'free-energy' or near-free-energy was one of the reasons our Pythonic Cow, went on to greener pastures associated with UFO reverse engineering for the purpose of identifying sources of near-free-energy.

Adeptus

It's a nice dream. Muon catalyzed fusion actually can occur at or about room temperatures, but muons are not easy or cheap to come by.

I'll believe Rossi when the device can be fully inspected and verified. Google petroldragon and get the translator ready. Rossi has already done time for tax evasion related to a company that purported to turn solid waste into oil.

I'd generously put the odds of this working at all at 1%. Generously.

I don't think that the universe works this way. It never gives you more than you put into it.

[GRG55]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energ...cle3144827.ece

If I understand correctly, he is saying that in this process about 15 nickel coins' weight of nickel (100 grams) is producing as much energy as two tons of oil. Pretty impressive.

You can't seriously believe that a handful of nickel can produce energy...

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I truly hope Mr. Rossi has discovered a historic new energy source, but I'm not expecting it to be verified as true.

If his worry is getting personal credit for his genius down through history, he should publish and get open peer review. In modern science, that means disclosing all the details and letting other people build your device, test it, and confirm your results.

If his worry is getting his valuable invention stolen and not getting rich, he can keep his secret and sell his amazing free power. If the gizmo really does work, why doesn't he just build a couple hundred of them, put them in his basement, and get rich selling electricity? In a couple years he could bootstrap his business into a major power producer raking in billions.

Perhaps I'm too cynical, but he strikes me as a crackpot inventor.

I'm with 'ohio, who sounds like he's actually from Missouri ;-)

[Adeptus]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

I don't think that the universe works this way. It never gives you more than you put into it.

Actually, the Universe created you, before you had a chance to put anything into it.

Please consider my above Koan to be added into the Zen archives. :-D

Ok, but from a scientific perspective, what you are saying suggests that something greater than the Universe had to create the Universe, which then begs the question, what greater thing, created the greater thing that created the Universe? etc. This for me is where Science runs into a brick wall - it's 'potential energy' to explain Theories of Everything (including debunking the possibility of free energy) gets reduced to zero credibility. You need to step outside conventional science to explain certain fundamental aspects of science. Or if you prefer, you need a new science to explain the fundamentals of the old science - and since this infers that our existing scientific knowledge is not complete, nor that our Scientific paradygm necessarily possess all the raw constructs/fundamentals that can explain everything we don't yet know, this leaves open the possibility that things like free-energy can exist and require a new science to explain it.

All contemplations aside, I agree, there's been so many charlatans or deluded individuals claiming "free energy", that one can't help but be a cynic.

[DSpencer]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

If the gizmo really does work, why doesn't he just build a couple hundred of them, put them in his basement, and get rich selling electricity? In a couple years he could bootstrap his business into a major power producer raking in billions.

This was my thought as well. In another thread there was lengthy debate about the physics of such a device, which was interesting. However, in the back of my mind was the simple thought: If I could build devices like this, I wouldn't give a rat's a$$ about convincing other scientists, skeptics societies, or anybody. I would simply prove it by selling cheap energy and becoming the richest man on earth.

[don]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

If you could have a superpower, which one would you pick?


France

[dcarrigg]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

Actually, the Universe created you, before you had a chance to put anything into it.

Please consider my above Koan to be added into the Zen archives. :-D

Ok, but from a scientific perspective, what you are saying suggests that something greater than the Universe had to create the Universe, which then begs the question, what greater thing, created the greater thing that created the Universe? etc. This for me is where Science runs into a brick wall - it's 'potential energy' to explain Theories of Everything (including debunking the possibility of free energy) gets reduced to zero credibility. You need to step outside conventional science to explain certain fundamental aspects of science. Or if you prefer, you need a new science to explain the fundamentals of the old science - and since this infers that our existing scientific knowledge is not complete, nor that our Scientific paradygm necessarily possess all the raw constructs/fundamentals that can explain everything we don't yet know, this leaves open the possibility that things like free-energy can exist and require a new science to explain it.

All contemplations aside, I agree, there's been so many charlatans or deluded individuals claiming "free energy", that one can't help but be a cynic.

I think that the statement I made might have been misinterpreted here.

All that I meant was that thermodynamics has laws.

[c1ue]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

If I understand correctly, he is saying that in this process about 15 nickel coins' weight of nickel (100 grams) is producing as much energy as two tons of oil. Pretty impressive.

As ASH calculated out in another thread - the amount of energy being output from the purported cold fusion device is far too small even in the best case. Secondly all known fusion reactions create some type of radiation - which apparently in this case is so weak as to be contained by aluminum foil.

As I noted much earlier - there are already devices incorporating nickel which produce energy: they're called nickel metal hydride batteries. Add water, and they cough up energy.

An examination of only the outside of this device frankly means jack. Similarly analysis of powders given by the inventor is equally meaningless.

If indeed some magic intersection of existing 'atomic, molecular, nuclear and plasma physics' covers this, then that's great.

In the meantime, lack of transparency is more the mark of the fraudster than the inventor.

[c1ue]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

BTW, some details of the original publication which redline my charlatan-o-meter:

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/...ality-or-scam/

Journal of Nuclear Physics? Really?
- A web site registered in California by a secret entity.
- A “journal” that is not a journal but a blog.
- A blog name that resembles the (real) former Soviet Journal of Nuclear Physics.
- A virtual “editor” comprised of a “team of scientists.”
- A “team of scientists” who’s only active participant appears to be Andrea Rossi.
- A “10 kW module reactor” that is anybody’s guess.
Record of e-mail exchange, Jan. 12, 2011:
*****
Dear Editor,
Who is the editor of JONP?
Thank you,
Steven B. Krivit
Editor, New Energy Times
*****
The editor of JONP is a team of scientists who finance the Journal.
We have no owner and we are a free association. We publish for free
all the papers that our Board Of Advisers deems scientifically valid
and we do not accept advertising to remain completely independent.
Warm regards,
JONP, The Board Of Advisers
*****
To whom am I speaking please?
Rossi?
Focardi?
*****
I am writing on behalf of the board of advisers,
Andrea Rossi
******

From the JONP Web site:

An astroturf scientific sounding journal with the 'inventor' on the board of advisors - looks REALLY bad.

[aaron]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

Thanks, C1ue.

[sunskyfan]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

You can't seriously believe that a handful of nickel can produce energy...

Go out tonight and if it is clear find a bright red star like Betelgeuse in Orion. A red giant. Nickel and Silicon is being turned to Iron there and producing energy as you watch.


Quantum tunneling through potentials happen in every transistor. It is part of nature. If it didn't happen stars would not produce as much energy as the do. There are two ways to bring nuclei close enough together for them to fuse: Heat/Gravity/Pressure and the random proximity due to tunneling. If you could create a matrix that sets up a resonance you might get enough tunneling for a few statistically significant fusion events. Perhaps enough to net some energy. This idea reminds me of chasing a room temperature superconductor. Possible but not probable but something that "credible" people have been spending lots of money and time chasing. Healthy skepticism is called for but these ideas should not to be ridiculed as fantasy.

[Mn_Mark]

Re: Rossi "cold fusion" device function confirmed by two Swedish scientists

This was my thought as well. In another thread there was lengthy debate about the physics of such a device, which was interesting. However, in the back of my mind was the simple thought: If I could build devices like this, I wouldn't give a rat's a$$ about convincing other scientists, skeptics societies, or anybody. I would simply prove it by selling cheap energy and becoming the richest man on earth.

That's what Rossi is doing. He is developing a large array of these which are planned to be installed in a factory in Greece. From what I have read, it is exactly his plan to commercialize this and let the science explaining it come along later. He plans to demonstrate a 1 megawatt version this October.