S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

[WildspitzE]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sp-...MW_latest_news


No wonder gold shot up ~11 bucks in a second a few minutes ago.

[dcarrigg]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sp-...MW_latest_news


No wonder gold shot up ~11 bucks in a second a few minutes ago.

Is anyone else impressed with the balls of these ratings agencies?

1. Ratings agencies, S&P included, knew that mortgage backed securities were junk, but rated them AAA. Full report here. (see pg. 6)
2. Ratings agencies refuse to admit blame as U.S. Gov. bails the screwed up system out
3. Ratings agencies threaten to downgrade U.S. Gov.

That's balls. Moreover, it threatens national security. It is financial terrorism.

[seanm123]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

S&P’s credit analyst is named Nikola G. Swann

[thunderdownunder]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

Is anyone else impressed with the balls of these ratings agencies?

1. Ratings agencies, S&P included, knew that mortgage backed securities were junk, but rated them AAA. Full report here. (see pg. 6)
2. Ratings agencies refuse to admit blame as U.S. Gov. bails the screwed up system out
3. Ratings agencies threaten to downgrade U.S. Gov.

That's balls. Moreover, it threatens national security. It is financial terrorism.

Not terrorism - just letting congress see that they need to get serious. Bit like a sales manager yelling at the team - Hit your numbers or else your fired.

[WildspitzE]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

Jesse has said it best:
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot...s-us-debt.html

[chr5648]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

The essential question is ask is: Does the US/US population have the ability to service the debt and maintain the american economy at time t=0 (2011) to time t+n (20XX)?

[c1ue]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

From my view, this is just a tactical move to ratchet up the 'emergency' to squeeze through entitlement cuts.

After all, you have to have the system be threatened in order to save it via giving emergency powers to banksters...again.

[WildspitzE]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

to your point and jesse's.... lol.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sp-...-ed-90-minutes

[dcarrigg]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

From my view, this is just a tactical move to ratchet up the 'emergency' to squeeze through entitlement cuts.

After all, you have to have the system be threatened in order to save it via giving emergency powers to banksters...again.

Of course it is. They flat out say it on page 5.

[GRG55]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

Jesse has said it best:
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot...s-us-debt.html

That the ratings agencies weren't put out of business over the rampant and undenied MBS corruption is stunning. That anyone pays any attention to their pronouncements today is even more stunning...

[WildspitzE]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

That the ratings agencies weren't put out of business over the rampant and undenied MBS corruption is stunning. That anyone pays any attention to their pronouncements today is even more stunning...

Totally agree. AFAIK though, the main reasons as to why they remain "relevant" is due to the regulatory framework that governs banks, insurance companies, and pension funds; specifically as it pertains to capital requirements (which drives returns), reserves, and investment criteria.

[jk]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

the ratings agencies escaped their deserved culpability by saying that they were exercising their first amendment rights to express what were merely "opinions" in no way meant to be investment advice. but their position is institutionalized not only re the banks, but in the mandates of numerous pension funds, mutual funds, and so on, which are only allowed to own instruments with acceptable ratings.

[dcarrigg]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

That the ratings agencies weren't put out of business over the rampant and undenied MBS corruption is stunning. That anyone pays any attention to their pronouncements today is even more stunning...

Deven Sharma (Pres. of S&P) from 2008:

S&P is not alone in having been taken by surprise by the extreme decline in the housing and mortgage markets. Virtually no one -- be they homeowners, financial institutions, rating agencies, regulators, or investors -- anticipated what is occurring. Although we highlighted to investors looming issues we saw in the housing market as far back as early 2006, the reality remains that in publishing our initial ratings on many of these securities we never expected such severe, negative performance in the housing and mortgage markets. There is no doubt that had we anticipated the extraordinary events that have occurred -- and we did not -- we would have utilized different economic forecasts and would not have assigned many of the original ratings that we did.

But, sure, the U.S. is risky.

Give me a break. Decisions like this are not made by financial models. They are political. S&P had the gall to call for "new faces" in the Irish government - as if a ratings agency should be able to hold a nation hostage. Some mid-level manager can run the math - it doesn't matter much.

I'd say to watch Sharma's SEC filings, but he hasn't made one since 2006. Too bad, since the market's response to this tom foolery is predictable. Now that Standard & Poor's Financial Services Company LLC is incorporated in Delaware, it answers to no one.

Either way, feel free to thank S&P for the bump in gold.

[jk]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

with s&p making this announcement, what exactly do we know today that we didn't know yesterday? for us here, on itulip, the answer is nothing. but this is a chip in the facade of denial still being maintained by most investors and the msm. the gradual awakening of the sleepwalkers = the gradual recruitment of support for pm's = the bull market process for pm's.

[dcarrigg]

Re: S&P cuts U.S. ratings outlook to negative

with s&p making this announcement, what exactly do we know today that we didn't know yesterday? for us here, on itulip, the answer is nothing. but this is a chip in the facade of denial still being maintained by most investors and the msm. the gradual awakening of the sleepwalkers = the gradual recruitment of support for pm's = the bull market process for pm's.

Just another step up the curve.