HOAs in Cali? More Than You Think

[don]

Hard-Pressed Homeowners Facing Another Financial Threat

By NGOC NGUYEN

Estrella Bryant was at risk of losing her San Francisco town house last year.

Ms. Bryant, 70, had not fallen behind on her mortgage payments. Instead, she owed $560 in dues to the Parkview Heights Homeowners Association. The association turned over the case to a collection agency and threatened to foreclose unless Ms. Bryant paid off her debt, which increased tenfold because of fees and interest.

“It’s been a nightmare,” said Ms. Bryant, a Filipina immigrant who lives on Social Security and occasional bookkeeping jobs. She said she repeatedly asked Parkview Heights representatives why she was dealing with a debt collector instead of the association.

“Aren’t you supposed to help homeowners?” she asked.

With the help of a lawyer, Ms. Bryant worked out a payment plan and saved her home. But her ordeal reveals another dimension to the foreclosure crisis, in which homeowners associations nationwide have the same powers as banks and mortgage lenders, and they can exercise a little-known right to foreclose on homes. California law permits associations to initiate foreclosure proceedings when a debt exceeds $1,800, or if a lower amount of dues is owed for more than one year.

One out of every four California homeowners belongs to a homeowners association — entities that sell property and provide services in residential subdivisions with support from member dues. There are more than 15,000 associations in Northern California, according to Levy, Erlanger & Company, a professional services firm that caters to them.

Last year, associations foreclosed on about 300 Bay Area homes — twice as many as five years ago, according to an analysis by New America Media, a nonprofit news organization. The study used data from ForeclosureRadar.com, an independent Web site.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/us...%20news&st=cse

[World Traveler]

Re: HOAs in Cali? More Than You Think

Same thing in Texas. Homeowners Associations have the legal right to foreclose if HOA fees are not paid.

There was a story in Houston Chronicle about 3-4 years ago. I found it interesting, because the neighborhood is about 5 miles from my home. A woman in her 80's, who it appears had beginning dementia, received the annual HOA bill. Along with a lot of other mail, she set it aside and ignored it. Also ignored second notice.

The HOA then foreclosed a few months later and the house was sold on the courthouse steps to a bidder who got a super deal, as he paid a minimal price for a home in a wealthy neighborhood, a home that had no mortgage. As part of the process, the HOA bill was settled.

The woman in her 80's had no idea she had been foreclosed on, til the new owner showed up at her door. She had to vacate home for new owner. The reason story got any publicity is because there was some outrage due to the woman's age and declining mental abilities.

[BigBagel]

Re: HOAs in Cali? More Than You Think

Same thing in Texas. Homeowners Associations have the legal right to foreclose if HOA fees are not paid.

There was a story in Houston Chronicle about 3-4 years ago. I found it interesting, because the neighborhood is about 5 miles from my home. A woman in her 80's, who it appears had beginning dementia, received the annual HOA bill. Along with a lot of other mail, she set it aside and ignored it. Also ignored second notice.

The HOA then foreclosed a few months later and the house was sold on the courthouse steps to a bidder who got a super deal, as he paid a minimal price for a home in a wealthy neighborhood, a home that had no mortgage. As part of the process, the HOA bill was settled.

The woman in her 80's had no idea she had been foreclosed on, til the new owner showed up at her door. She had to vacate home for new owner. The reason story got any publicity is because there was some outrage due to the woman's age and declining mental abilities.

Sad story. If I may recommend a book:
Never Say Die: The Myth and Marketing of Old Age by Susan Jacoby

I recently read it and if you're over 50 I would highly recommend it. We're going to get a lot more stories like the above in the future and unfortunately some of us will be the main character in those stories.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/bo...r-say-die.html

[we_are_toast]

Re: HOAs in Cali? More Than You Think

I can fully appreciate what these people are going through.

I live in an association that has a psychopath for a president, and he has packed the board with a cult following. When I say the president is a psychopath, I'm not name calling, I mean it in the fullest medical definition of the word. He's a pathological liar, feels no empathy for others, and his sole purpose is to manipulate others for his personal gain. He has surrounded himself with people who have never even tried to read the covenants and By-Laws of the association, and couldn't understand them if they did anyway. I got myself on the board a few years back and was amazed at the constant lying and manipulation of the board by the president. I started asking to see receipts and bank statements, they denied me access, and the war was on.

Since I had never in my life seen anyone lie so much as this president, I started doing a lot of research into pathological lying. Everything started pointing to psychopathy. I once counted 2 lies, and 3 attempts to manipulate, in one sentence in an email from this guy. I've seen numerous times where the end of one sentence would contradict the beginning of the sentence. A typical psychopath is not Ted Bundy or Charles Manson. They're our bosses, police officers, politicians, HOA board members..., they make up about 1% of the population, and they gravitate to power in order to get what they want, . And HOA boards have more power than you can imagine.

HOA's typically fall below the laws that govern most government entities such as county boards and city councils. In my state they are non profit corporations. But they have the power to levy fines and to foreclose. And their biggest power of all, is the ability to shift the burden of proof. They can levy a fine against you by accusing you of some violation, and now it's up to you to hire a lawyer and go through a very expensive process to prove you are not in violation. In the mean time, they are using the association money, part of which is your own, to tie you up in litigation.

We tried voting him out, but he refused to count more than 30% of the votes, all of which were against him. After going to several attorneys, they told us it could take 2 years to get this through court and would cost 10's of thousands of dollars. And if you think people are apathetic over congressional elections, try to get them involved over what's happening in their HOA. We did sue the association to get them to turn over the financial documents of the association as required by state law and our covenants. He has refused to turn them over, and the case has been going on for more than a year. He's threatened us personally with liable and slander lawsuits, and he's filed false police complaints against us.

I've got my place up for sale and I'll be trying to find a place without an HOA, but at the very least, I'll do due diligence before I buy another place with an HOA.

[don]

Re: HOAs in Cali? More Than You Think

Curious what your HOA president's profession was or is.

[we_are_toast]

Re: HOAs in Cali? More Than You Think

Curious what your HOA president's profession was or is.

He was a police officer until they booted him out.

[don]

Re: HOAs in Cali? More Than You Think

He was a police officer until they booted him out.

You have my sympathy.

[World Traveler]

Re: HOAs in Cali? More Than You Think

Another interesting thing in the Houston Chronicle article was that after the foreclosure this old woman moved in with a friend.

This implies that either she had no close relatives who would or could take her in. Or maybe no close relatives at all. It sounds like no one was monitoring her financial affairs.

Perhaps that is a lesson in ageing... the importance of having a "trusted community" to assist us as we get older, especially the 80's and 90's. And, of course, taking the hardest step of all, recognizing that we may need help from this "trusted community" as we age.

[flintlock]

Re: HOAs in Cali? More Than You Think

I can fully appreciate what these people are going through.

I live in an association that has a psychopath for a president, and he has packed the board with a cult following. When I say the president is a psychopath, I'm not name calling, I mean it in the fullest medical definition of the word. He's a pathological liar, feels no empathy for others, and his sole purpose is to manipulate others for his personal gain. He has surrounded himself with people who have never even tried to read the covenants and By-Laws of the association, and couldn't understand them if they did anyway. I got myself on the board a few years back and was amazed at the constant lying and manipulation of the board by the president. I started asking to see receipts and bank statements, they denied me access, and the war was on.

Since I had never in my life seen anyone lie so much as this president, I started doing a lot of research into pathological lying. Everything started pointing to psychopathy. I once counted 2 lies, and 3 attempts to manipulate, in one sentence in an email from this guy. I've seen numerous times where the end of one sentence would contradict the beginning of the sentence. A typical psychopath is not Ted Bundy or Charles Manson. They're our bosses, police officers, politicians, HOA board members..., they make up about 1% of the population, and they gravitate to power in order to get what they want, . And HOA boards have more power than you can imagine.

HOA's typically fall below the laws that govern most government entities such as county boards and city councils. In my state they are non profit corporations. But they have the power to levy fines and to foreclose. And their biggest power of all, is the ability to shift the burden of proof. They can levy a fine against you by accusing you of some violation, and now it's up to you to hire a lawyer and go through a very expensive process to prove you are not in violation. In the mean time, they are using the association money, part of which is your own, to tie you up in litigation.

We tried voting him out, but he refused to count more than 30% of the votes, all of which were against him. After going to several attorneys, they told us it could take 2 years to get this through court and would cost 10's of thousands of dollars. And if you think people are apathetic over congressional elections, try to get them involved over what's happening in their HOA. We did sue the association to get them to turn over the financial documents of the association as required by state law and our covenants. He has refused to turn them over, and the case has been going on for more than a year. He's threatened us personally with liable and slander lawsuits, and he's filed false police complaints against us.

I've got my place up for sale and I'll be trying to find a place without an HOA, but at the very least, I'll do due diligence before I buy another place with an HOA.

Sounds like the guy we had! No doubt in my mind he was ripping off the association . Ridiculous projects were done the board never approved. He'd just do them. $2000 landscape projects that looked like they should cost $200. Then his yard would end up with work done at the same time. Due to a mistake in the HOA rules, he actually moved out of the neighborhood and still wanted to remain President!!!!. A meeting was held where 80% of the resident voted to oust him. He still wouldn't quit. His next door neighbor called him "Gestapo like". What is it about some people when they get a little power?

His wife was kooky also. She'd show up at our door with her kid, wanting my wife to "watch her for a second while she did some errands". Only thing is, we had no idea who she even was! Our kids went to school together, but we didn't even know her. They lived a mile away! My wife, caught off guard, agreed to help her out. The mother didn't come back until late that night! We were contemplating calling the police about it when she arrived. No excuses, just picked up the kid and left.

I get approached from time to time by the same types in the course of my business. They want freebies at their home in exchange for the HOA business. I finally just quit doing HOA jobs. Too much drama! Call my cynical, but I'm wary of anyone who volunteers for that job.

[don]

Re: HOAs in Cali? More Than You Think

All of us on the 'tulip that have been self-employed have heard from the 'employed' how great it must be to be our own boss. Time off whenever you please, lots of dough, all kinds of angles to shoot. When some of these fantasists are given a no-risk taste of what they think you've been doing, they run amok.