Fukushima finally wins Gold

[thunderdownunder]

http://enenews.com/japan-officially-...yl-translation

The implications even for Steve are cause for concern. This won't get a mention

[Adeptus]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

From Japan Newswire: http://www.japantoday.com/category/n...ghest-7-from-5

That's not exactly the thread title i'd pick for this event. This is totally surreal. Fukushima hits level 7 for reactor #1 = Chernobyl !!!

So at which point does it go beyond Chernobyl given some estimate there's some 40 times more nuclear material there than Chernobyl?

"Dude, this is pretty *u*ked up right here."
-Eric Cartman

[don]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

Chill.

Eat a mushroom.

Check back in a few years . . . .

[thunderdownunder]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

So at which point does it go beyond Chernobyl given some estimate there's some 40 times more nuclear material there than Chernobyl?
When the ministry of silly walks allows.
Exclusion zones are being increased as I write. This is a long term event which has long term implications. Food/fishing/water/ sovereign risk to other countries.
To date they have not done anything which could be called containment. The lack of response after 30 days is distressing. Godzilla is "Winning" and the opposing team don't have a viable game plan because thats not how it works in Japan. Orders come from superiors who have little knowledge and a consensus must be reached before the actions filter down. No one argues or has input - only from the Top

[Shakespear]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

"The implications even for Steve are cause for concern. This won't get a mention"

I suspect NOT.

No problem though, in a few years the area will turn into a National Reserve where animals will happily skip about on 7 legs and people will be taking tours like at Chernobyl. So far none of my Ukrainian friends have not gone on this tour. Guess they don't want to get any of that "beneficial natural radiation".

But ...
http://www.tourkiev.com/chernobyltour/

http://feww.wordpress.com/2011/04/12...7km-ese-tokyo/

[sunskyfan]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

Well, you know, when you see explosions and clouds of smoke coming from a nuclear facility perhaps there IS something wrong. But, we will wait for someone to TELL us there is something wrong since "belief" and "believers" work that way. I guess I might have to listen to Limbaugh tomorrow to see if there is really a serious event or another overblown media event like the Gulf Oil spill ;0 ... yawn.

[mesyn191]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

That's not exactly the thread title i'd pick for this event. This is totally surreal. Fukushima hits level 7 for reactor #1 = Chernobyl !!!
-Eric Cartman

Level 7 is a potential threat level, so level 7 doesn't automatically equal Chernobyl, they're saying it could get that bad though so they've temporarily increased it. FWIW they've already said they won't really know what the threat level is until the situation is totally contained and that it could change at any time, so it could change back to 5 or even 3 or 4 for all we know.

So far this is still about as bad as TMI so quit freaking out.

[thunderdownunder]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

@ mesyn 191
I never freak out. What I expect is that If the (American Public) are fully informed....For I have complete confidence in the response and dedication of our citizens whenever they are fully informed ..... f#$k it ...just read JFK speeches
I now live in Australia but fish/plankton /Krill / ditto...have no borders but I am protected in air by the "doldrums".
China has made some "diplomatic" speeches in the last few hours. They say that if you don't inform us fully, truthfully, in real time, you will find we get very pissed off.
Thailand is fuming, Vietnam is agitating and America is watching something important on TV.
They, Japan, have suffered but they have no Idea how to contain.
Fact - TMI did not release highly radioactive water into the World food basket (Pacific)
Fact- Containment has not been achieved and won't be for a long time.
Fact- Elevated levels of radiation have become apparent all throughout the Nth Hemisphere.
Fact- You don't have one open sarcophagus you can sand, concrete and enclose. They have 3 bleeding sores.
Fact - You have an Island, most populous and it survives on export. Radiation will Kill that.
Fact - Cancer was a rare illness before we Used E=Mc2 to is destructive end.
Fact- the rating signifies .........It is Cat- o - strophic
Fact - My own Father was in both those places at the end of WW2 as an interpretor in demob and after playing grid iron in the dust - His nick was Lucky - cause when he Died he had nothing left to remove that did not terminate him. No left eye, no Pancreas, 1 lung, 1 kidney ,no prostrate, and the liver (as a non drinker) had a cut and shut but the thyroid and the bowel and the bone just shut my best mate down. When they dressed him for the coffin prior the gas burn, the Undertaker wanted to Know if he had been 'Shark bitten' as his body was one very large stitch patchwork.
Conclusion - Don't be a Smart ass when it comes to things you have never (really) had to suffer. (yet) and both he (did)and I (Now)firmly believe that with technology generation 4 pebble bed and the yet to be V reactors will be a safe and secure future for base load.
So I will politely say - get stuffed

[c1ue]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

I'd say if you were so concerned about radioactive water - you wouldn't eat fish from the Pacific Ocean at all.

Almost all the nuclear fission and fusion bombs exploded in tests in the 60s and 70s were in the Pacific.

These released not just I131 and Cesium 137, but the real deal: plutonium, strontium, etc etc. in hundreds of pounds volumes.

There are still radioactive ships lying in relatively shallow waters in many parts.

[mesyn191]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

@ mesyn 191
I never freak out.

Maybe I'm reading into your posts but it sure sounds like you are and do.

China has made some "diplomatic" speeches in the last few hours. They say that if you don't inform us fully, truthfully, in real time, you will find we get very pissed off.
Thailand is fuming, Vietnam is agitating and America is watching something important on TV.

What does this have to do with anything? Japan has been pretty open and clear about what has been going on and and what they're doing about it. Those other countries are just using this event as a chance to chest beat in front of their citizens.

They, Japan, have suffered but they have no Idea how to contain.

Says who? All things considered they're doing about as good of job as you could expect.

Fact - TMI did not release highly radioactive water into the World food basket (Pacific)
Fact- Containment has not been achieved and won't be for a long time.
Fact- Elevated levels of radiation have become apparent all throughout the Nth Hemisphere.
Fact- You don't have one open sarcophagus you can sand, concrete and enclose. They have 3 bleeding sores.
Fact - You have an Island, most populous and it survives on export. Radiation will Kill that.

This is all technically true but mostly hand waving and scare tactics you seem to have fallen for. We've had more radiation in the ocean for decades from the Russians dumping old nuclear waste and cores into the sea, and then you have things like B30 and Chelyabinsk which are far far worse than Fukushima. Both have also been around for decades long before Fukushima. Permanent containment will probably take years but this really doesn't mean much of anything to anyone. Its not like a few feet of temporary earth and/or cement won't work in the short term while they build something more permanent. Radiation levels have also been elevated in the northern hemisphere but the amount is trivial, something like 1 or 2 becquerels which is barely above back ground levels, which you should know already if you don't. And AFAIK Japan's exports are still doing OK all things considered. I've heard of a few cases of vegetables being rejected and such but no mass rejection of all goods from Japan, which is what you'd need to really hit their economy.

Fact - Cancer was a rare illness before we Used E=Mc2 to is destructive end.

People also live longer too since that time period and other factors are in play too such as ozone depletion which raises UV levels. AFAIK no clear cut link to increased world wide cancer from bomb radiation fall out has ever been found.

Fact - My own Father was in both those places at the end of WW2 as an interpretor in demob and after playing grid iron in the dust - His nick was Lucky - cause when he Died he had nothing left to remove that did not terminate him. No left eye, no Pancreas, 1 lung, 1 kidney ,no prostrate, and the liver (as a non drinker) had a cut and shut but the thyroid and the bowel and the bone just shut my best mate down. When they dressed him for the coffin prior the gas burn, the Undertaker wanted to Know if he had been 'Shark bitten' as his body was one very large stitch patchwork.

That is terrible and does help us understand why you'd be so worried about radiation and nuclear fall out in general but doesn't have much of anything to do with the situation at hand.

So I will politely say - get stuffed

You put it politely so I'll put it politely too- quit freaking out, you've got bigger things to worry about.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

All that is being talked about is a fear-level. A fear-level of 7 is meaningless, except to the fearful..... Being the slow learner here, I use deaths--- not forecast deaths, not modelled deaths, not ought-to-have-died deaths, but real deaths. So far, I believe, ONE person has died from a crane falling on them at Fukushima. And that is all. Everyone else is doing fine.

We have the workers at Fukushima who smoke cigarettes on their breaks, and they might die of lung cancer in their middle years of life. Those won't be radiation deaths from Fukushima.

While waiting for a bus yesterday in British Columbia, I had my tongue out to taste the rainfall bearing radio-nuclides from Fukushima. The rainfall tasted fine.

The robin that bonded to my house from last spring has returned, and it is pooping all over my cabin again. Nothing is new there. More daffidils this spring than ever. I have two loons that have moved into the mud-hole next to my cabin, so everything is very Canadian. And my gigantic old-growth cedar trees are taller than ever, apparently doing just fine, too.

Radiation is a natural part of the Earth's environment; it always has been.

One death from a crane at Fukushima. So after a 9.0 mega-quake and a 30-foot high tsunami, one death from a crane at Fukushima is a statistic that speaks quite well for the nuclear power industry, thank you.

Meanwhile, time is ticking-away. The Earth's population is now 7 billion, give or take..... If you plan to live off of the sun or live off of the wind, this is going to be real sad for mankind. But you all have a decision to make: Will it be starvation and darkness for your future, or will it be oil, gas, nuclear, and hydro-electric? And yes, you can have all four: oil, gas, nuclear, and hydro-electric.

Sad to say, at this point, I would even settle for filthy coal because at least coal creates jobs and coal is dirt cheap. But if you choose coal, don't call yourselves, "environmentalists".

[Adeptus]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

I'd say if you were so concerned about radioactive water - you wouldn't eat fish from the Pacific Ocean at all.
Almost all the nuclear fission and fusion bombs exploded in tests in the 60s and 70s were in the Pacific. .

Dude, I think I'm about to turn vegetarian! Maybe my Island neighbour Starvin' Steve here can let me plant a few veggies in his Sooke back yard. :-D

[Starving Steve]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

Certainly, you can plant vegetables here. Welcome!

[c1ue]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

From wiki:

In July 1947, after the first atomic weapons testing at Bikini Atoll, the United States entered into an agreement with the United Nations to govern the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands as a strategic trusteeship territory. The Trust Territory is composed of 2,000 islands spread over 3,000,000 square miles (7,800,000 km²) of the North Pacific Ocean. On July 23, 1947, the United States Atomic Energy Commission announced the establishment of the Pacific Proving Grounds.^[1] 105 atmospheric (i.e., not underground) nuclear tests were conducted there, many of which were of extremely high yield. While the Marshall Islands testing comprised 14% of all U.S. tests, it comprised nearly 80% of the total yields of those detonated by the U.S., with an estimated total yield of around 210 megatons, with the largest being the 15 Mt Castle Bravo shot of 1954 which spread considerable nuclear fallout on many of the islands, including several which were inhabited, and some that had not been evacuated.[2

Operation Crossroads (1946)


The first use of the Pacific Proving Grounds was during Operation Crossroads, the first nuclear testing done after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Two fission bombs, both with a yield of 21 kilotons, were detonated at the Bikini Atoll, one ("Able") from an altitude of 520 ft (158 m) on July 1, 1946, and another ("Baker") was detonated a depth of 90 ft (27 m) underwater on July 25.Operation Sandstone (1948)

Main article: Operation Sandstone
Three weapons were detonated on the Enewetak Atoll as part of Operation Sandstone in 1948.
[edit] Operation Greenhouse (1951)

Main article: Operation Greenhouse
Four weapons were detonated on the Enewetak Atoll as part of Operation Greenhouse in 1951.
Operation Ivy (1952)



Two weapons were detonated at the Enewetak Atoll as part of Operation Ivy in 1952. One of them, Ivy King, was the largest pure-fission bomb ever detonated, with a yield of 500 kilotons,^[4] and the other, Ivy Mike, was the first hydrogen bomb device (it was too large to be an actual weapon), with a yield of 10.4 Mt.
Operation Castle (1954)



Six very large nuclear tests were conducted at the Bikini Atoll and the Enewetak Atoll as part of Operation Castle in 1954.Operation Redwing (1956)

Main article: Operation Redwing
Seventeen nuclear weapons were detonated on the Bikini and Enewetak Atolls as part of Operation Redwing in 1956. Many of them were designed to prove the feasibility of numerous thermonuclear weapon designs, with yields ranging from around 2 to 5 Mt.
[edit] Operation Hardtack I (1958)

Main article: Operation Hardtack I
Thirty-five weapons were detonated at the Bikini Atoll, Enewetak Atoll, and Johnston Island as part of Operation Hardtack I in 1958.
[edit] Operation Dominic (1962)

Main article: Operation Dominic I and II
Thirty-six weapons were detonated at sites in the Pacific Ocean in the vicinity of Christmas Island and Johnston Atoll as part of Operation Dominic I.

The first device whose dimensions suggest employment of all these features (two-point, hollow-pit, fusion-boosted implosion) was the Swan device, tested June 22, 1956, as the Inca shot of Operation Redwing, at Eniwetok. Its yield was 15 kilotons, about the same as Little Boy, the Hiroshima bomb. It weighed 105 lb (47.6 kg) and was cylindrical in shape, 11.6 inches (29.5 cm) in diameter and 22.9 inches (58 cm) long. The above schematic illustrates what were probably its essential features.

For example, for the Redwing Mohawk test on July 3, 1956, a secondary called the Flute was attached to the Swan primary. The Flute was 15 inches (38 cm) in diameter and 23.4 inches (59 cm) long, about the size of the Swan. But it weighed ten times as much and yielded 24 times as much energy (355 kilotons, vs 15 kilotons).

Note: this is only US testing in the Pacific.

The French tested as late as 1974:

• United States: 1,054 tests by official count (involving at least 1,151 devices, 331 atmospheric tests), most at Nevada Test Site and the Pacific Proving Grounds in the Marshall Islands, with 10 other tests taking place at various locations in the United States, including Amchitka Alaska, Colorado, Mississippi, and New Mexico (see Nuclear weapons and the United States for details).^[5]
• Soviet Union: 715 tests (involving 969 devices) by official count,^[6] most at Semipalatinsk Test Site and Novaya Zemlya, and a few more at various sites in Russia, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, and Ukraine.

• France: 210 tests by official count (50 atmospheric, 160 underground^[7]), 4 atomic atmospheric tests at C.E.S.M. near Reggane, 13 atomic underground tests at C.E.M.O. near In Ekker in the then-French Algerian Sahara, and nuclear atmospheric tests at Fangataufa and nuclear undersea tests Moruroa in French Polynesia. Additional atomic and chemical warfare tests took place in the secret base B2-Namous, near Ben Wenif, other tests involving rockets and missiles at C.I.E.E.S, near Hammaguir, both in the Sahara.
• United Kingdom: 45 tests (21 in Australian territory, including 9 in mainland South Australia at Maralinga and Emu Field, some at Christmas Island in the Pacific Ocean, plus many others in the United States as part of joint test series)^[8]
• China: 45 tests (23 atmospheric and 22 underground, at Lop Nur Nuclear Weapons Test Base, in Malan, Xinjiang)^[9][10]

Note the British nuclear weapons tests in Australia. Hopefully the Outback.

The point is: many tons, possibly hundreds of tons, of weapons grade radioactive plutonium has been released into the atmosphere and into the water in the Pacific.

Where are the 3 eyed fish? The massive birth defects and what not supposedly to result?

Again, radiation release isn't a good thing - but it is important to understand what the actual dangers are as opposed to hysteria whipped up by NGOs in order to provoke reaction (and funding).

[D-Mack]

Re: Fukushima finally wins Gold

"

Based on results obtained in studies on high background radiation areas of Ramsar, high levels of natural radiation may have some bio-positive effects such as enhancing radiation-resistance. More research is needed to assess if these bio-positive effects have any implication in radiation protection (Mortazavi et al. 2001). The risk from exposure to low-dose radiation has been highly politicized for a variety of reasons. This has led to a frequently exaggerated perception of the potential health effects, and to lasting public controversies.
http://www.angelfire.com/mo/radioadaptive/ramsar.html

There are some positive effects to background radiation, but "dosis facit venenum" still applies.


7 or 8 does it matter? It's probably made up like all other statistics.