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  • Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

    "What this country needs is a short, victorious war to stem the tide of revolution."
    V.K. Plehve, Russian Minister of the Interior to General A.N. Kuropatkin, Minister of War, 1903, on the eve of the Russo-Japanese War

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...mRB_story.html


    President Obama is proud of how he put together the Libyan operation. A model of international cooperation. All the necessary paperwork. Arab League backing. A Security Council resolution. (Everything but a resolution from the Congress of the United States, a minor inconvenience for a citizen of the world.) It’s war as designed by an Ivy League professor.

    True, it took three weeks to put this together, during which time Moammar Gaddafi went from besieged, delusional (remember those youthful protesters on “hallucinogenic pills”) thug losing support by the hour — to resurgent tyrant who marshaled his forces, marched them to the gates of Benghazi and had the U.S. director of national intelligence predicting that “the regime will prevail.”

    But what is military initiative and opportunity compared with paper?

    Well, let’s see how that paper multilateralism is doing. The Arab League is already reversing itself, criticizing the use of force it had just authorized. Amr Moussa, secretary-general of the Arab League, is shocked — shocked! — to find that people are being killed by allied airstrikes. This reaction was dubbed mystifying by one commentator, apparently born yesterday and thus unaware that the Arab League has forever been a collection of cynical, warring, unreliable dictatorships of ever-shifting loyalties. A British soccer mob has more unity and moral purpose. Yet Obama deemed it a great diplomatic success that the league deigned to permit others to fight and die to save fellow Arabs for whom 19 of 21 Arab states have yet to lift a finger.

    And what about that brilliant U.N. resolution?

    l Russia’s Vladimir Putin is already calling the Libya operation a medieval crusade.

    l China is calling for a cease-fire in place — which would completely undermine the allied effort by leaving Gaddafi in power, his people at his mercy and the country partitioned and condemned to ongoing civil war.

    l Brazil joined China in that call for a cease-fire. This just hours after Obama ended his fawning two-day Brazil visit. Another triumph of presidential personal diplomacy.

    And how about NATO? Let’s see. As of this writing, Britain wanted the operation to be led by NATO. France adamantly disagreed, citing Arab sensibilities. Germany wanted no part of anything, going so far as to pull four of its ships from NATO command in the Mediterranean. Italy hinted it might deny the allies the use of its air bases if NATO can’t get its act together. France and Germany walked out of a NATO meeting on Monday, while Norway had planes in Crete ready to go but refused to let them fly until it had some idea who the hell is running the operation. And Turkey, whose prime minister four months ago proudly accepted the Gaddafi International Prize for Human Rights, has been particularly resistant to the Libya operation from the beginning.

    And as for the United States, who knows what American policy is. Administration officials insist we are not trying to bring down Gaddafi, even as the president insists that he must go. Although on Tuesday Obama did add “unless he changes his approach.” Approach, mind you.

    In any case, for Obama, military objectives take a back seat to diplomatic appearances. The president is obsessed with pretending that we are not running the operation — a dismaying expression of Obama’s view that his country is so tainted by its various sins that it lacks the moral legitimacy to . . . what? Save Third World people from massacre?

    Obama seems equally obsessed with handing off the lead role. Hand off to whom? NATO? Quarreling amid Turkish resistance (see above), NATO still can’t agree on taking over command of the airstrike campaign, which is what has kept the Libyan rebels alive.

    This confusion is purely the result of Obama’s decision to get America into the war and then immediately relinquish American command. Never modest about himself, Obama is supremely modest about his country. America should be merely “one of the partners among many,” he said Monday. No primus inter pares for him. Even the Clinton administration spoke of America as the indispensable nation. And it remains so. Yet at a time when the world is hungry for America to lead — no one has anything near our capabilities, experience and resources — America is led by a man determined that it should not.

    A man who dithers over parchment. Who starts a war from which he wants out right away. Good God. If you go to take Vienna, take Vienna. If you’re not prepared to do so, better then to stay home and do nothing.

  • #2
    Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

    Originally posted by c1ue View Post
    "What this country needs is a short, victorious war to stem the tide of revolution."
    V.K. Plehve, Russian Minister of the Interior to General A.N. Kuropatkin, Minister of War, 1903, on the eve of the Russo-Japanese War

    There were no good options in Libya, as any responsible and well-informed citizen knows. Past administrations, both Dem and Repub, have supported Quadaffi in exchange for access to Libyan oil. The public protests exposed the moral weakness of that support and prevented us from supporting the status quo, as we have done elsewhere in the ME for decades.

    So what should Obama have done? Wapo wants you to believe it would have supported Quaddafi's removal. What a load of crap. Not a single Republican leader called for a military invasion --- not one. Indeed, most of the Fox geniuses were tripping over each other urging "caution" and saying things like "we don't know who these rebels are". Conservatives repeatedly raised the spectre of Iran, reminding us that the Irania revolution looked legitimate, too, until it was too late.

    I'm no Obama fan, but his measured response has been excellent compared to our previous adminstration. Bush did nothing about Al Queda despite the clear warnings, then went "all in" to Afghanistan (with almost full Democrat support and no whiners like we're seeing now from Wapo). Then, inexplicably, he stopped his pursuit of Bin Laden right at the moment we had him in our sights, turning over the operation to our Pakistani "allies" who immediately let him escape into Pakistan.

    Remember, this was our enemy, a man whose organization had directly attacked us on 9/11. It just amazes me that many Americans still view Bush and Cheney as "tough on terrorism". Oh, and the Republican's in the House just voted to cut $500 million from the American program to prevent nuclear fissionable materials from falling into the hands of terrorists. Who are these clowns?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

      The Germans are now as smart as the Americans used to be.
      Last edited by don; March 25, 2011, 11:26 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

        Yes, we've traded places. We once produced for the world. "Trenton makes, the world takes." At the turn of the last century, Germany was playing the Great Game with other colonial powers and relying on their military to advance the productivity of their citizens. Now Germany makes and we take. And fund the world's largest military force in history.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

          Can (or will) they conflate the pirates of Somalia with the Shores of Tripoli?

          Don't laugh. Remember Saddam and 9/11?

          No problemo.



          and it's the 210th anniversary

          (call it the bicentennial - how many would know the difference)

          beats Odyssey Dawn

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

            Originally posted by goodrich4bk
            There were no good options in Libya, as any responsible and well-informed citizen knows.
            I'm unclear as to what you're saying.

            Are you saying that intervention was necessary, and what Obama is doing is the best option?

            What about the option of not intervening, like we're not intervening in Yemen, or Bahrain, or Egypt, or ...?

            It is also quite unclear just what the result of this 'intervention' is going to be.

            Air power can stop tanks from retaking Benghazi; it is far less clear it will help the 'insurgents' take Tripoli.

            If the goal was to remove uncertainty from Libyan conflict interfering with world oil supplies, then clearly this 'option' wasn't so good.

            If the goal was to remove Qaddafi - again, as noted above, how does air power alone dig out entrenched Qaddafi supporters from cities where they're surrounded by civilians?

            If the goal was to prevent the 'massacre' of civilians as the rebel strongholds were taken - when does this end? If the rebels can't take out Qaddafi - and it is far from clear that they can - then Qaddafi just hunkers down and waits it out.

            You're also ignoring another point of the article: The UN resolution was to prevent a civilian massacre, yet Obama is saying Qaddafi must go.

            Easy to tell who's got the Peace Prize here...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

              Wow! Hard to believe that came from the WaPo editorial board.
              Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

                Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                I'm unclear as to what you're saying.

                Are you saying that intervention was necessary, and what Obama is doing is the best option?

                What about the option of not intervening, like we're not intervening in Yemen, or Bahrain, or Egypt, or ...?

                It is also quite unclear just what the result of this 'intervention' is going to be.
                Maybe he meant something more arbitrary?

                Maybe it's time to ignore the players in the Middle East. None appear to want to play the same game we want to play. Some of their values appear to be diametrically opposed to our values ("feudal" or "tribal" mindset versus "Western" mindset). Perhaps the best we can do is something like an anti-tank campaign across the whole region. See a tank, blow it up. Doesn't matter who it belongs to. You can keep the AK-47s and RPGs though, because it'd be impossible to remove them.

                /sarc

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

                  Would someone please tell me how it is possible otherwise to dispose of a despotic tyrant who controls the military and ruins millions of his citizens lives? I think it is best to trick and capture them before letting on you might do something about it. In this case, perhaps by putting a few tents around Tipoli with you know what type of human he likes inside, and perhaps a Hugo look alike, with a trap door, (or bed). The only problem then, is who replaces them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

                    Originally posted by don View Post
                    The Germans are now as smart as the Americans used to be.
                    Nobody is lily white in this affair...not even the Germans. Who do you think was helping his chemical weapons research a decade ago? And who do you think supplied his poison gasses?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

                      Originally posted by Ghent12 View Post
                      Maybe he meant something more arbitrary?

                      Maybe it's time to ignore the players in the Middle East. None appear to want to play the same game we want to play. Some of their values appear to be diametrically opposed to our values ("feudal" or "tribal" mindset versus "Western" mindset). Perhaps the best we can do is something like an anti-tank campaign across the whole region. See a tank, blow it up. Doesn't matter who it belongs to. You can keep the AK-47s and RPGs though, because it'd be impossible to remove them.

                      /sarc
                      Then what? Sell them more tanks, just like we sold 'em the ones that were just blown up? Sounds like a recession-proof business plan for that "military-industrial complex" that Ike warned about...

                      [And all this time you folks thought it was "all about the oil"...Ha!]



                      "GDLS" stands for General Dynamics Land Systems:
                      "...The first M1 Abrams battle tanks were delivered to the US Army in 1980. 3,273 M1 tanks were produced for the US Army. 4,796 M1A1 tanks were built for the US Army, 221 for the US Marines and 880 co-produced with Egypt.

                      Approximately 77 M1A2 tanks have been built for the US Army, 315 for Saudi Arabia and 218 for Kuwait. For the M1A2 upgrade programme, over 600 M1 Abrams tanks are being upgraded to M1A2 configuration. Deliveries began in 1998.

                      In June 2006, Saudi Arabia requested the foreign military sale of 58 M1A1 tanks and the upgrade of these and the 315 M1A2 already in the Saudi inventory to M1A2S configuration. The upgrade involves rebuilding to a 'like new' condition, similar to the US Army Abrams integrated management programme (AIM).

                      In August 2007, Egypt requested the foreign military sale of an additional 125 M1A1 tanks, which would bring the country's fleet to 1,005 M1A1 tanks.

                      GDLS was awarded a $349m contract in January 2008, for the production of 125 M1A1 tank kits under the tenth increment of the the Egyptian co-production programme. Deliveries began in April 2009 and will continue until July 2011.

                      In July 2008, the Iraqi Government requested the sale of 140 M1A1 tanks to be upgraded to M1A1M configuration..."
                      Last edited by GRG55; March 26, 2011, 09:39 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

                        Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                        I'm unclear as to what you're saying.

                        Are you saying that intervention was necessary, and what Obama is doing is the best option?

                        What about the option of not intervening, like we're not intervening in Yemen, or Bahrain, or Egypt, or ...?

                        It is also quite unclear just what the result of this 'intervention' is going to be.

                        Air power can stop tanks from retaking Benghazi; it is far less clear it will help the 'insurgents' take Tripoli.

                        If the goal was to remove uncertainty from Libyan conflict interfering with world oil supplies, then clearly this 'option' wasn't so good.

                        If the goal was to remove Qaddafi - again, as noted above, how does air power alone dig out entrenched Qaddafi supporters from cities where they're surrounded by civilians?

                        If the goal was to prevent the 'massacre' of civilians as the rebel strongholds were taken - when does this end? If the rebels can't take out Qaddafi - and it is far from clear that they can - then Qaddafi just hunkers down and waits it out.

                        You're also ignoring another point of the article: The UN resolution was to prevent a civilian massacre, yet Obama is saying Qaddafi must go.

                        Easy to tell who's got the Peace Prize here...
                        Not surprisingly, this is shaping up to be the roach motel outcome that EJ, among others, pointed out.

                        What I find truly surprising is American and selected European nations eagerness to get involved in not only pushing through the UN resolution, but implementing it.

                        Last time I checked all six of the GCC Arab Gulf states [Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Oman] were members of the UN and the Arab League. Collectively they have more than enough modern armaments, including jet fighters - no small amount of it sold to them by the USA and Europe - to enforce any UN no-fly zone over Libya provided they received some assistance from Europe, Turkey, Egypt and/or Tunisia to use air base facilities.

                        Quadaffi has been a Arab problem for a long time, and this was the perfect opportunity to let the Arabs solve their own problem...

                        ...but that would mean they would be going about eliminating or containing "one of their own", and that presents a serious dilema, non?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

                          Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
                          Wow! Hard to believe that came from the WaPo editorial board.
                          Just to clarify, although the piece appeared in the WaPo it was written by Charles Krauthammer. not their editorial board.
                          Greg

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

                            Last time I checked all six of the GCC Arab Gulf states [Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Oman] were members of the UN and the Arab League. Collectively they have more than enough modern armaments, including jet fighters - no small amount of it sold to them by the USA and Europe - to enforce any UN no-fly zone over Libya provided they received some assistance from Europe, Turkey, Egypt and/or Tunisia to use air base facilities.
                            This is key, and something people seem to ignore or be unaware of. Its not like the old days when only the US or Russia had the means. This was a clear cut test for the Arab League. They failed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Obama's "Short, Victorious War"...or not. WaPo editorial blasts Obama

                              Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                              Not surprisingly, this is shaping up to be the roach motel outcome that EJ, among others, pointed out.
                              ....
                              Quadaffi has been a Arab problem for a long time, and this was the perfect opportunity to let the Arabs solve their own problem...

                              ...but that would mean they would be going about eliminating or containing "one of their own", and that presents a serious dilema, non?
                              kinda funny that part, non?
                              when it seems, from my limited knowledge of the history of that part of the planet, that they were always quite willing to whack 'one of their own' to sieze whatever their cousin/brother/uncle possessed?

                              so the real question for the supporters of our anti-bushs-war prez: why was he so quick to launch when ole gee dubya waited for well over a year(2) and several UN resolutions to finally - AFTER 530+ CONGRESSIONAL TYPES VOTED ***FOR*** taking out saddam - meanwhile prez indecision doesnt so much as call harry before opening a 3rd front, BEFORE THEY EVEN COME UP WITH A PHREAKIN BUDGET to operate the rest of the country????

                              f___kin brilliant, eh?

                              Comment

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