More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

[cjppjc]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

NCAA division 1 coaches get paid in relationship to their results. Their results lead to alot of money.

[BK]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

C1ue - your are correct - my logic is faulty.

Perphaps - Not as many people should go to University - perhaps we have more University capacity than is really necessary?

Lets face it the success of the FIRE economy wiped out lots of good jobs - so more kids headed off to college looking for a White Collar job -
Sadly, there will be many that put in the effort and won't be rewarded with a Great job.

The Education lobby has been telling everyone has to go to College. There are plenty of stories of people who successful even without a college education.

During times of famine you focus the resources on the Best and Brightest (more rigorous testing that determines who gets these precious slots at places like CSU). I'll admit I was allowed into an academic program as a Freshman that I was not prepared for. The University and my family wasted resources because no one did a proper analysis of what course of study would be best for me.

The Stanford U salaries are just another sign of the higher Education Mania we are traveling through. Demographics and Financing have provided insane amounts of Money for Universities. Think of the Average age of a Parent with Children in College - they have tons of Financing available to them 529 plans, Home Equity, Parents are in their peak earning years. How will the Class of 2020 Finance a $50,000-$60,000 a year Education?

[c1ue]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

Perphaps - Not as many people should go to University - perhaps we have more University capacity than is really necessary?

That may be, but isn't overcapacity generally cut out from the more expensive part, not the less?

[dcarrigg]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

NCAA division 1 coaches get paid in relationship to their results. Their results lead to alot of money.

Funny, I thought the incredibly talented players got results and the coaches shouted from the sidelines and came up with broad strategies. The players seem to be happy to do it for far less.

To be fair, I didn't mention non-guaranteed income and one-time bonuses that are paid to the coaches based on results. I only mentioned the guaranteed income paid out regardless of success or failure.

• So, if a private, for-profit school wants to pay this out, I say go for it.
• If a private, not-for-profit school wants to pay this out, I would question it - a not-for-profit that pays no taxes operating a 9-figure athletic operation and paying coaches up to $14M/annum should raise an eyebrow.
• If a public school wants to pay this out, there's an ethical issue to be raised with the public.

Congress had an inquiry about it in 2007. Right or wrong, one can be sure that coach pay is going up exponentially in a time of strapped budgets, which is really all that I wanted to point out.

[cjppjc]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

Funny, I thought the incredibly talented players got results and the coaches shouted from the sidelines and came up with broad strategies. The players seem to be happy to do it for far less.

To be fair, I didn't mention non-guaranteed income and one-time bonuses that are paid to the coaches based on results. I only mentioned the guaranteed income paid out regardless of success or failure.

• So, if a private, for-profit school wants to pay this out, I say go for it.
• If a private, not-for-profit school wants to pay this out, I would question it - a not-for-profit that pays no taxes operating a 9-figure athletic operation and paying coaches up to $14M/annum should raise an eyebrow.
• If a public school wants to pay this out, there's an ethical issue to be raised with the public.

Congress had an inquiry about it in 2007. Right or wrong, one can be sure that coach pay is going up exponentially in a time of strapped budgets, which is really all that I wanted to point out.

The incredibly talented players combined with the good coaches get results. If the schools didn't think it was worth the money, they would pay them so much. Recruiting is just as important as game coaching. Let's not discuss recruiting violations. Many many coaches get fired from well paying jobs based on their wins and losses.

http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Coach-Wal.../dp/1935806025



In his book Tom Penders talks about the pressure of being a coach on the last year of a three year contract, with a wife and two kids.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

From a David Zirin article...highly recommend his latest book.

Ground zero of the student protest movement is the University of California at Berkeley. Over at Berkeley, students are facing 32% tuition hikes, while the school pays football coach Jeff Tedford $2.8 million a year and is finishing more than $400 million in renovations on the football stadium. This is what students see: boosters and alumni come first, while they've been instructed to cheer their teams, pay their loans, and mind their business.

The counterargument is that college athletic departments fund themselves and actually put money back into a school's general fund. This is simply not true. The October Knight Commission report of college presidents stated that the 25 top football schools had revenues on average of $3.9 million in 2008. The other 94 ran deficits averaging $9.9 million. When athletic departments run deficits, it's not like the football coach takes a pay cut. In other words, if the team is doing well, the entire school benefits. If the football team suffers, the entire school suffers. This, to put it mildly, is financial lunacy. A school would statistically be better off if it took its endowment to Vegas and just bet it all on black.

article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-z..._b_486639.html

book:

http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Sports-Own...1112254&sr=8-1

[Andreuccio]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

The counterargument is that college athletic departments fund themselves and actually put money back into a school's general fund. This is simply not true. The October Knight Commission report of college presidents stated that the 25 top football schools had revenues on average of $3.9 million in 2008. The other 94 ran deficits averaging $9.9 million.

I was going to say I wondered if these figures somehow included less tangible benefits. For example, I would bet that schools with successful athletic programs garner more financial support, on balance, from alums than equivalent schools with marginal programs. (No evidence, just a hunch.)

I figured I might as well read the article first, though, to see if my question was answered. It wasn't, but I did find this great quote:

With crumbling schools, higher tuitions, and an Education Secretary in Arne Duncan who seems more obsessed with providing extra money for schools that break their teachers unions, it's no wonder that the anger is starting to boil over.

[Andreuccio]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

Perhaps you can suggest what wage you would work for in order to teach at a CSU.

Whatever the Presidents make, the actual people doing the teaching make far less.

LA Unified School District is another example of top administrators cashing in while those of us on the lower rungs get squeezed. Our new Superintendent, John Deasy, negotiated himself a nice $80,000 raise over his predecessor, bringing his annual paycheck to $330,000, plus nice benefits, including a car and driver.

Meanwhile, LAUSD has issued layoff notices to over 5,000 teachers and other professionals, including yours truly.

[cjppjc]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

From a David Zirin article...highly recommend his latest book.

Ground zero of the student protest movement is the University of California at Berkeley. Over at Berkeley, students are facing 32% tuition hikes, while the school pays football coach Jeff Tedford $2.8 million a year and is finishing more than $400 million in renovations on the football stadium. This is what students see: boosters and alumni come first, while they've been instructed to cheer their teams, pay their loans, and mind their business.

The counterargument is that college athletic departments fund themselves and actually put money back into a school's general fund. This is simply not true. The October Knight Commission report of college presidents stated that the 25 top football schools had revenues on average of $3.9 million in 2008. The other 94 ran deficits averaging $9.9 million. When athletic departments run deficits, it's not like the football coach takes a pay cut. In other words, if the team is doing well, the entire school benefits. If the football team suffers, the entire school suffers. This, to put it mildly, is financial lunacy. A school would statistically be better off if it took its endowment to Vegas and just bet it all on black.

article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-z..._b_486639.html

book:

http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Sports-Own...1112254&sr=8-1

So the problem, and I'm not being sarcastic, is the 94 that wish they were in the top 25. So here we see men and women who wish for something and are willing to spend other peoples money to get it.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

One of the most interesting chapters in Zirin's latest book was on former treasury secretary Paulson and son trying to shake down Oregon tax payers. Billionaires pressing for public funds to build stadiums is the central theme of the book.

College sports generate or lose avalanches of money. No way to run a school. A million dollar-coach at a public university is as absurd as Gallo Wine getting millions of federal dollars to promote it's product overseas or General Electric raiding the treasury for 3.2 billion instead of paying any taxes.

[Jay]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

No sarcasm here. The whole college educational system is wasteful and an anacronism. Get rid of the bureaucracy, heirarchy and debt. CSU isn't the worst well so be it. It is still part of the problem. Good teachers don't get ahead, good politicians and bureaucrats who happen to have a teaching degree do. Many avenues of study can be taught just as effectively without a physical plant.

[dcarrigg]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

One of the most interesting chapters in Zirin's latest book was on former treasury secretary Paulson and son trying to shake down Oregon tax payers. Billionaires pressing for public funds to build stadiums is the central theme of the book.

College sports generate or lose avalanches of money. No way to run a school. A million dollar-coach at a public university is as absurd as Gallo Wine getting millions of federal dollars to promote it's product overseas or General Electric raiding the treasury for 3.2 billion instead of paying any taxes.

+1

[Jay]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

One of the most interesting chapters in Zirin's latest book was on former treasury secretary Paulson and son trying to shake down Oregon tax payers. Billionaires pressing for public funds to build stadiums is the central theme of the book.

College sports generate or lose avalanches of money. No way to run a school. A million dollar-coach at a public university is as absurd as Gallo Wine getting millions of federal dollars to promote it's product overseas or General Electric raiding the treasury for 3.2 billion instead of paying any taxes.

This is what it looks like when Titans fight as the pie shrinks. Smaller players have already lost and at this point are just scurring around trying not to get stepped on. The nationstate fights are going to be something...

[cjppjc]

Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

NCAA division 1 coaches get paid in relationship to their results. Their results lead to alot of money.

And sometimes, maybe most times they break rules.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...0/jim.tressel/

SI investigation reveals eight-year pattern of violations under Tressel

Story Highlights Since 2002 at least 28 OSU players are alleged to have traded or sold memorabilia Ex-Buckeye tells SI he and 'at least 20 others' swapped memorabilia for tattoos Source tells SI that four Ohio State players traded memorabilia for marijuana

By George Dohrmann with David Epstein

This story appears in the June 6 edition of Sports Illustrated. To purchase a digital version of the magazine, go here.
The character traits that have made Jim Tressel a successful football coach and a beloved figure in Ohio are numerous and frequently cited. Former NFL coach Tony Dungy has praised Tressel's "integrity" and said he is the kind of man you'd want your son to play for. Eddie DeBartolo, the former 49ers owner, has said that Tressel's "steady" demeanor and knack for relating to young men reminded him of Hall of Fame coach Bill Walsh.
Tressel has often been described as senatorial, an adjective rarely applied to a football coach; in fact, one of his nicknames is the Senator. He has been lauded for his sincerity and his politeness, and people who admire his faith in God often mention the prayer-request box on the desk in his office at Ohio State.
The 58-year-old Tressel benefited from the fertile recruiting grounds of Ohio, but supporters always believed he got the most out of players because he was -- as the title of a 2009 book about him declares -- More Than a Coach. Under Tressel, the Buckeyes often sat together before meetings or at the start of practice for 10 minutes of "quiet time" to read about virtues such as humility, faith and gratitude. Tressel liked to say that his teams "play as hard as we can play" but also "respect as hard as we can respect."
Yet while Tressel's admirable qualities have been trumpeted, something else essential to his success has gone largely undiscussed: his ignorance. Professing a lack of awareness isn't usually the way to get ahead, but it has helped Tressel at key moments in his career. As coach at Youngstown (Ohio) State in the mid-1990s, he claimed not to know that his star quarterback had received a car and more than $10,000 from a school trustee and his associates -- even though it was later established in court documents that Tressel had told the player to go see the trustee. In 2003, during Tressel's third season in Columbus, Buckeyes running back Maurice Clarett was found to have received money and other benefits. Even though Tressel said he spent more time with Clarett than with any other player, he also said he did not know that Clarett had been violating the rules. A year later an internal Ohio State investigation (later corroborated by the NCAA) found that quarterback Troy Smith had taken $500 from a booster. It was the second time the booster had been investigated for allegedly providing improper benefits to a star player, but again Tressel said he had no knowledge of the illicit payment.
On Monday -- after months of turmoil during which he had first claimed to be unaware of violations in his program and then acknowledged that he had known about them -- Tressel resigned. (He had four years left on his estimated $3.5 million-a-year contract.) In his 10 seasons Tressel was the most successful coach in Columbus since Woody Hayes, having led the Buckeyes to three BCS title games, the 2002 national championship, a 9-1 record against Michigan and a winning percentage of 82.8%. But like Hayes, who was fired after hitting a Clemson player during the 1978 Gator Bowl, Tressel exits ignominiously, all of his many accomplishments tarnished. "After meeting with university officials, we agreed that it is in the best interest of Ohio State that I resign as head football coach," Tressel said in a statement. "The appreciation that [my wife] Ellen and I have for the Buckeye Nation is immeasurable." The school named Luke Fickell, 37, as interim coach for the 2011 season. The team's co-defensive coordinator and assistant head coach, Fickell is a Columbus native who played for Ohio State from 1992 to '96.