Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

[c1ue]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

I'm just giving an analogy. Sure the Internet bubble laid the basis for the 2003 recession, but the two tower collapse triggered it.

Actually, the recession started well before 9/11: http://www.usatoday.com/money/econom...ecession_x.htm

It officially started in March 2001, and ended in November 2001.

9/11 was used as an excuse to pave over much of its effects via money printing.

So again, I disagree with your view and call it wrong.

No kidding Sherlocks, the problem is NOT the radiation BUT the particles in the wind/air, in the dust, in the dirt which when they get in your lungs THEN become the problem. So what to do? DON'T Panic, stay where you are. I guarantee if he was there with his family he would be one of the first to get the Hell out of there like the foreigners and the rich are doing. So give us a break that radiation is with us and is even good for us.

I agree, plutonium, U238, cesium 137, and similar particles in the air are a huge danger.

Where is it indicated that this has happened to any significant degree?

I've seen zero factual evidence that the SNFs are empty of cooling water much less on fire.

I've seen zero factual evidence that all 3 containment layers in the reactors have been breached.

So where are these particles coming from then?

I've never said radiation is good - but radiation is omnipresent.

So are toxins - natural and otherwise.

Here in Japan, it seems to my viewpoint that the problem has been a failure to let the Hydrogen, created by a lack of coolant flowing over the pile, pass out of the building. Instead, creating enormous explosions that, very effectively, destroy the structure of the buildings.

Indeed, Fukushima #1, Reactors 5 and 6, had holes drilled into the ceilings for this purpose.

No doubt there will be additions to the nuclear emergency safety infrastructure manual after this tragedy.

[Master Shake]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

We were lucky that the first go round of H1N1 didn't have a very high mortality rate, but that wasn't apparent when H1N1 first surfaced. People were going apeshit because H1N1 had the potential to be very infectious, and had that been combined with a high mortality rate, there would have been a problem. The expectation value found by multiplying an extremely negative outcome by a small probability can still be pretty negative, and the only way to manage the type of risk presented by H1N1 is an early response. The response of WHO and CDC was entirely appropriate. You would expect that in a majority of similar cases, an early and aggressive response will end up looking foolishly pessimistic, because later the threat will turn out to be a damp squib. But in situations where a response cannot be effective if one waits until the degree of threat is 100% known, there isn't a rational alternative.

ASH,

There was some early evidence that H1N1 had a higher mortality rate, but that was based from a small sample size in rural Mexico where a) people did not seek treatment quickly, and b) they were in rural freaking Mexico.

H1N1 is an influenza virus and influenza viruses, in hospital, are treated as contact hazards, because the risk of airborne transmission, except in the case of aerosol generating procedures like bronchoscopy or sputum induction, is very low to non-existant.

[c1ue]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

A returnee from Japan:

http://www.chicoer.com/fromthenewspaper/ci_17651319

CHICO -- When Bryony "Bunny" English accepted an assignment to teach overseas, she probably knew she was in for an adventure. But the 23-year-old couldn't know how big an adventure it would be until the earth began to tremble under her feet.

The Pleasant Valley High School graduate flew into Chico Friday afternoon after teaching English in Koga, Japan for the last eight months.

"It is good to be home," said the clearly exhausted young woman as she was welcomed at the Chico Municipal Airport by her parents, Lily and Paul English, and a small group of friends.

English was teaching in Koga last Friday when the magnitude-9.0 earthquake hit about 310 miles east, off the Japanese coast.

"It's been a really, really stressful two weeks," she said, then quickly corrected the time frame to "one week," adding, "It seems longer."

She said there were daily aftershocks that added to the stress, but Koga is well away from the coast and therefore avoided the tsunami that did most of the structural damage.

While saying the threat associated with the damaged nuclear power plants, about 140 miles from Koga, have been overstated by the media, she quipped, "I'm not glowing. I was supposed to be glowing."

Stress was a shared experience with English and her parents.

Thursday night a week ago, which was Friday Japan time, her parents were about to shut off the television and call it a night, when CNN flashed a bulletin about a massive quake off the coast of northern Japan.

Her mother turned to her husband and said, "She's not in the north, is she?"

When her husband said their daughter was in the north, Lily English responded, "Holy moley!"

Paul English sent an e-mail to his daughter, and she responded almost immediately, saying everything was under control at her end.

"I don't think she really understood the enormity of the situation," Lily English said, but her daughter thinks the world is getting a warped picture of what is going on in Japan.

The young traveler said Japanese buildings are designed to withstand quakes. She said the buildings shake, but they don't collapse.

She also said she was in Tokyo "two days after the quake, and everything was fine."

Even if the buildings are standing where they weren't destroyed by the tsunami, that doesn't mean life is easy in Japan right now.

The people are running out of food, and there is a level of concern about the nuclear plants, but, "There is no chaos."

"If this was in America, people would be fighting for the last bag of rice," she said, but in general the Japanese population is calm and even "polite."

While her teaching contract was scheduled to last until the end of March, English said
she decided to come home because of her parents' concerns.

She explained the hardest part of the entire experience was leaving her Japanese friends behind. She said there are Japanese households where she is part of the family.

English said it was like saying, "Bye! Good luck with the nuclear thing." Then her voice broke and the tears began to flow.

Her father said he expects his University of San Diego graduate daughter to spend a couple of weeks at home before she takes off for another trip.

Staff writer Roger H. Aylworth can be reached at 896-7762 or raylworth@chicoer.com.

[flintlock]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

Thanks for the replies. It seems there will be no massive loss of life here. That is what I was primarily concerned about. Of course Toast would probably add, "This time". I could see how a plant in the right area could be very deadly.

The other day I was watching a documentary ( The Long Way Round, highly recommended) with the actor Ewan McGregor, who was driving around the world on a motorcycle. They stopped in the Ukraine to visit kids they said were still being affected by the radiation all these years later. Is that scenario likely? Its not like Japan has a lot of extra land like Russia or the US to just move everyone out of. Like JK said, I'll believe we are serious about nuke safety when they close the California plants on fault lines.

And just a reminder, people die procuring oil too. Especially when you factor in the wars fought over it.

[flintlock]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

It must be a nightmare trying to work in what are destroyed buildings. All of us should have a care for the poor sods still there trying to save the rest of the planet from even more fallout.

You said it. Some really brave people there.

[don]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

here in NorCal were getting unremitting rain (western storms, from the east). What effect, if any, does this have on the migrating radiation?

[oddlots]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

Great chart on radiation exposure:

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

[Shakespear]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

The other day I was watching a documentary ( The Long Way Round, highly recommended) with the actor Ewan McGregor, who was driving around the world on a motorcycle. They stopped in the Ukraine to visit kids they said were still being affected by the radiation all these years later. Is that scenario likely?

That's a good one. I also watched this it and do recommend it. It is a raw story of what reality looks like even though you are not there.

Now that should be a little lesson for the rest that UNLESS you are on the ground and HAVE THE TIME to sniff around, you will never get the full story. If it is bad "they" will try to cover it up and deny it. "But what about the people ... blah blah". "They" don't give a hoot about the people, the "talking points" are ironed out and the message delivered, "Everything is fine, we have cleaned the "problem" up so move along".

If the people have a problem it is their problem. After speaking to a few Ukrainians that is the impression that I get of how this was dealt with.

[Master Shake]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

That's a good one. I also watched this it and do recommend it. It is a raw story of what reality looks like even though you are not there.

Now that should be a little lesson for the rest that UNLESS you are on the ground and HAVE THE TIME to sniff around, you will never get the full story. If it is bad "they" will try to cover it up and deny it. "But what about the people ... blah blah". "They" don't give a hoot about the people, the "talking points" are ironed out and the message delivered, "Everything is fine, we have cleaned the "problem" up so move along".

If the people have a problem it is their problem. After speaking to a few Ukrainians that is the impression that I get of how this was dealt with.

Chernobyl is the wrong comparison for Fukushina. Ask the people around TMI how things are. Since I live not too far away from the PA line, I can tell you. It's a non-issue.

[Shakespear]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

My point is not that Fukushima = Chernobyl.

My point is that we do not know what Fukushina is, some think that Chernobyl is nature park reserve and that whatever these events my turn out to be in terms of human costs I doubt we will know. When I say "we" I mean the forum crowd behind the computer screen.

TMI might be the poster child for nuclear accidents in the US but it is not a good one IMHO. Better ones are found in Tennessee or out West.

[don]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

Interactive graphics on the "boiling water" type reactor used at Fukushina.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...0design&st=cse

[c1ue]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

Actually there is plenty of data on Fukushima. It is just that the MSM prefers to publish accounts to terrify its viewers (and sell newspapers/get eyeballs on TV screens).

Here's a picture of 'stabilization' at Fukushima #1, Reactors 5 & 6, SNF pools



Yes, the pools were elevated in temperature: 65 degrees C, and are now stabilized at 35 degrees C.

Remember the zirconium cladding doesn't melt until 1200 degree C.

So what does this say about the bulls*** stories about fires, and floating plutonium/cesium/uranium/strontium/whatever?

And what does this say about those who say "we don't know" or "it could be as bad or worse than Chernobyl" or other ridiculous statements?

[don]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

Ann

[Master Shake]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis

Note: Don't take this as a defense of Coulter.

[ASH]

Re: Excellent article explaining the situation at the Fukushima plant

Concern about a spent fuel fire reported in the MSM centered on the ponds at #3 and #4, not #5 & #6. The MSM reported that temperatures had risen in #5 & #6, but I don't recall this being represented as an immediate crisis at the time of the reports. Most of the reporting, and concern, centered on the pools at #3 and #4. Do you recall TEPCO reporting earlier that they couldn't get close enough to observe those ponds directly, but that water levels were 'low' -- hence the efforts with the helicopters and water cannon? Also, it was the chairman of the NRC who said in Congressional testimony that the NRC thought the pond at #4 was dry, and that spent fuel was breaking down -- if the MSM reports that, it isn't the MSM that is guilty of scare-mongering. You could argue that our NRC was overly pessimistic or jumped to conclusions, but that isn't the fault of the MSM. Personally, it seems like a pretty good bet that spent rods at one or both of those ponds were at least partially exposed and smoldering at one point, although the workers were able to avert the worst case scenario conflagration. I'm thinking that most of the radioactive iodine that was released must have come from that source, since it is volatile, and can cook out of rods at a lower temperature than required to spread the heavier decay products. Want to take a bet at this point about what the final report on the disaster will find?