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Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

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  • Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

    Shocking, if true its the End of America!

    Hayman Capital 2626 Cole Avenue, Suite 200
    Dallas, TX 75204
    July 30th, 2007
    Dear Investors,
    ....I recently spent some time with a senior executive in the structured product marketing group (Collateralized Debt Obligations, Collateralized Loan Obligations, Etc.) of one of the largest brokerage firms in the world....
    This individual proceeded to tell me how and why the Subprime Mezzanine CDO business existed. Subprime Mezzanine CDOs are 10-20X levered vehicles that contain only the BBB and BBB- tranches of Subprime debt. He told me that the “real money” (US insurance companies, pension funds, etc) accounts had stopped purchasing mezzanine tranches of US Subprime debt in late 2003 and that they needed a mechanism that could enable them to “mark up” these loans, package them opaquely, and EXPORT THE NEWLY PACKAGED RISK TO UNWITTING BUYERS IN ASIA AND CENTRAL EUROPE!!!! He told me with a straight face that these CDOs were the only way to get rid of the riskiest tranches of Subprime debt.
    Interestingly enough, these buyers (mainland Chinese Banks, the Chinese Government, Taiwanese banks, Korean banks, German banks, French banks, UK banks) possess the “excess” pools of liquidity around the globe. These pools are basically derived from two sources: 1) massive trade surpluses with the US in USD, 2) petrodollar recyclers. These two pools of excess capital are US dollar denominated and have had a virtually insatiable demand for US dollar denominated debt…until now.
    They have had orders on the various desks of Wall St. to buy any US debt rated “AAA” by the rating agencies in the US. How do BBB and BBB-tranches become AAA? Through the alchemy of Mezzanine-CDOs. With the help of the ratings agencies the Mezzanine CDO managers collect a series of BBB and BBB- tranches and repackage them with a cascading cash waterfall so that the top tiers are paid out first on all the tranches – thus allowing them to be rated AAA.

    Well, when you lever ONLY mezzanine tranches of Subprime RMBS 10-20X, POOF…you magically have 80% of the structure rated “AAA” by the ratings agencies, despite the underlying collateral being a collection of BBB and BBB- rated assets... This will go down as one of the biggest financial illusions the world has EVER seen.
    These institutions have these investments marked at PAR or 100 cents on the dollar for the most part. Now that the underlying collateral has begun to be downgraded, it is only a matter of time (weeks, days, or maybe just hours) before the ratings agencies (or what is left of them) downgrade the actual tranches of these various CDO structures. When they are downgraded, these foreign buyers will most likely have to sell them due to the fact that they are only permitted to own “super-senior” risk in the US. I predict that these tranches of mezzanine CDOs will fetch bids of around 10 cents on the dollar. ...
    I also recently spent some time with one of the largest CLO issuers in the world. They had just returned from Japan where they were marketing a new CLO in order to be one of the buyers for new LBO debt. Needless to say, their marketing efforts fell on deaf ears. They were told by the Japanese investors that they have lost confidence in the ratings agencies (you think?) and that in an election year there is too much uncertainty. They basically said, “No more.” If there is not a CLO bid from Asian and Central European banks, where do you think the $290 billion in announced LBOs will go to sell their debt? ...
    In California today, home prices are down between 25%-40% in the central valley. From San Bernadino to Stockton, home prices are in free-fall and their physical condition is actually worse than their price decline. The borrowers are locked out of the financing market and there is no logical buyer for these homes outside of the original borrower. The foreclosure wave will hit these neighborhoods like the Asian Tsunami. If you plug in 15% depreciation in housing prices and 50% loss severities into our Subprime model, the capital structure is wiped out all the way to the “AA” tranches.
    In the Subprime Credit Strategies Funds, we continue to hold our initial positions and have not taken any profits yet. In Hayman, we are short credit in the US (both Subprime RMBS and corporate credit) and long non-US equities and debt. We are short US consumer based equities, preferreds, and debt. I think the world is going to begin to
    decouple from the US and realize that currency appreciation coupled with the globe’s best growth is an attractive alternative to fraudulent ratings, US dollar depreciation, and financial inventions used to export risk.
    Sincerely,
    J. Kyle Bass
    Managing Partner

  • #2
    Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

    I do like your enthusiasm

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

      Oh and your wit..........do you how to ride a pony, because i can't see you being able to buy much oil very soon!

      Mega

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

        Location: Houston, I was practically born on a pony! Anywas, sorry for being a dick.

        That is not the end of America. It's just one more colossal mess made in America, that will be swept under the rug, and recorded as a triumph of the fractional reserve system.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

          Mega -

          I hate to say it, because I'm sitting around down here in Southern California looking for some REAL break in housing prices - but the much touted 'collapse' and 'freefall' in housing prices is NOT HAPPENING YET.

          I check various central city zip codes regularly - sales are locked up, that's true - but list and eventual sales prices are yielding only very grudgingly to the downturn.

          If this is a 'collapse' in property prices, it's about as fast and action filled as watching paint dry.

          Personally, having read all about this rotten apple of a story back in 2003, I sold my primary residence early, in late 2004, and have lived without enthusiasm in a rental ever since. I am a big cynic in terms of believing there's going to be a huge collapse in housing prices - at least in this city.

          Tet may know differently as he lives here also - and I'm willing to bet he lives in a fancier postal code than I do!

          Any time you read these gory stories about prices collapsing everywhere, just remember out on the street, yes, there are a lot of for sale signs, but the degradation of sale prices proceeds with all the speed of a snail.

          I've not seen prices in the 600K category degrade in any centra city postal codes by more than 50K, and I can assure you I've lost a good chunk of that much merely in the last week in the stock market.

          From where I sit, real property as investment continues to look like an excellent long term category. Wherever you can find pockets of reasonable value - in a coming highly inflationary era I think it's still an excellent diversified investment. This is what C1ue is looking at in places like Japan. I'd far prefer that myself to having long term exposure to equities.

          Now, is my case of Newcastle on it's way? I certainly hope so after all my reminders!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

            Originally posted by Mega View Post
            Oh and your wit..........do you how to ride a pony, because i can't see you being able to buy much oil very soon!

            Mega
            Hayman… he and Paulson have profited huge from their short sub prime trade.

            "The Paulson and Hayman funds have trounced competitors, many of which got caught by the decline in debt markets. Goldman Sachs Group Inc.'s $9 billion Global Alpha hedge fund fell almost 12 percent in the two weeks ended Aug. 3, extending this year's drop to 16 percent."
            Ed.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

              Mega, you seem to be in a caustically witty good form today. Just remember, if we are riding around in OX-DRIVEN CADILLACS you will most certainly be driving around in OX-DRIVEN BENTLEYS. OK?



              #1
              Today, 06:19 PM
              Mega
              Senior Member
              Join Date: May 2007
              Posts: 187
              Credits: 760


              Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

              • 0


              Oh and your wit..........do you how to ride a pony, because i can't see you being able to buy much oil very soon!

              Mega

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

                Originally posted by Lukester
                I hate to say it, because I'm sitting around down here in Southern California looking for some REAL break in housing prices - but the much touted 'collapse' and 'freefall' in housing prices is NOT HAPPENING YET.
                Lukester,

                I'm in San Francisco and have not seen price drops in the core areas either.

                However, I blame Proposition 13 for this.

                As sticky as prices normally are going down, they are 10x more sticky due to Prop. 13.

                We're going to have to wait for the job losses to see significant price drops in core areas of LA and SF/Bay Area as effectively the higher income people are compressing into 'safe' zones.

                Once it happens though, I do believe it will be a waterfall.

                Thus far mostly it is speculators, low income, and young people who bought in the outskirts who are getting slammed.

                If I were to HAVE to buy a house in the next 6 months though, I'd be more proactive.

                Use Zillow or the low tech equivalent (county recorder's office) to find those people with low mortgages/high equity balances, and mail in cash offers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

                  Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                  Lukester,


                  However, I blame Proposition 13 for this.

                  As sticky as prices normally are going down, they are 10x more sticky due to Prop. 13.
                  Spot on. I've held off selling my house in part because of Prop 13. If I sold, prices would have to drop by over 60% before I could buy back in and pay the same property tax.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

                    Originally posted by Andreucchio
                    Spot on. I've held off selling my house in part because of Prop 13. If I sold, prices would have to drop by over 60% before I could buy back in and pay the same property tax.
                    Yep, for those of us who graduated college in the mid-90's, buying a house anywhere prime was a tremendous financial leap into the dark - one which I did not take (and don't regret either).

                    Proposition 13 has converted the entire state into a "free" marketer's nightmare - people coming into the economy (either relocations or demographic) are forced to subsidize the existing (and past) incumbents.

                    Its like Social Security - for housing. It works great so long as there are more entrants than incumbents, then it doesn't.

                    Look for rates to go up, then eventually Prop. 13 gets repealed when the state budgetary mess gets too ugly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

                      Sorry IB, i am a bit jumpy, this is the most frighting thing i seen in my bussiness life. The possablty for this to go all the way to 30's DEPRESSION is what got me.

                      Luke, it took 2 years for housing the crash in the great despression, remember even if your been very bad the Bank will not forclose on you! Simple answer is that while your still in your home:-

                      You keep the grass cut
                      You keep the sercurty going
                      You maintane the local estate.

                      If the bank forcloses:-
                      They get YET another house to sell
                      The House gets left and falls disrepair
                      The House get used by Drug dealers etc
                      Its more RED ink!

                      Nope, they are in NO hurry to forclose!
                      Mike

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

                        Luke is dead on about the price reductions so far here in Southern California. I have yet to see anything more than a 10% reduction in price versus last year. That said, nothing is selling...

                        My housing story:
                        I sold my house in January 2007 for a tidy profit and am now playing the waiting game. So far two (2) identical houses have come on the market for about 50k less than we sold for six months ago. That is a HEFTY reduction of about 10% in a short time. I have the feeling things will come down eventually. Hopefully we'll see 20%-30% in the next two years...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

                          Just wait it's coming:
                          http://www.latimes.com/business/prin...es-pe-business
                          In recent weeks, Conejo Valley residents and local businesses told The Times that they were anxious about looming layoffs and how they would affect a thriving local economy.

                          "These reductions will touch many families in our community," Thousand Oaks Mayor Andy Fox said Wednesday in a statement. "The City Council, staff and our residents offer our compassion and support to all those affected."
                          Parties over,
                          In Thousand Oaks, Amgen Inc. rules.

                          It's the biggest private employer in town. Its 8,300 local employees, known as "Amgenites," make an estimated average annual salary of $162,000. Its sleek corporate headquarters with sweeping views of the Santa Monica Mountains looks more like a college campus, and frequent late-afternoon "fermentation parties" offer free beer for all.
                          Countrywide will be the next layoff which will have a major impact on housing in Simi and TO.
                          Last edited by bill; August 16, 2007, 02:06 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Just READ THIS !!!!!!!!

                            It is stunning to me how accurate many of the various blog's detailing the RE meltdown have been. A couple months ago some posters were predicting an Amgen layoff and a Countrywide BK. Now the layoff has happened and CW is in danger. Wow. :eek:

                            Kudos everyone.

                            Comment

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