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  • The Tax Tipping Point

    Rising Property Taxes Overwhelm Many Who Are Living on the Edge



    By WINNIE HU

    Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s campaign to cap property taxes has angered school and municipal officials who say that limiting local tax revenue will make it impossible for them to cover rising expenses and will result in drastic cuts in services.

    Nevertheless, the tax cap has wide support among New Yorkers, polls have shown, with many homeowners saying they are struggling to pay property taxes, which have risen steeply in the last decade as wages have stagnated, savings have dwindled and housing values have fallen.

    How burdensome are these property taxes? In a recent report by the Tax Foundation, a nonpartisan research group in Washington, New York ranked fourth in property taxes among the states, with median taxes of $3,755 in 2009, compared with $1,917 nationally. New Jersey, which passed a property tax cap last year, was first with $6,579.

    The report also found that in five New York counties — Westchester, Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland and Putnam — the median taxes were $7,295 to $9,044, with homeowners typically paying from 7.8 percent to 8.6 percent of their income in property taxes, compared with 3 percent nationally.






    But “tax burden” is in the eye of the homeowner. Michael McCall, a marketing professor at Ithaca College who studies consumer spending, said feeling overburdened was, in part, a psychological state, one based on earnings, debt, home value and even what friends in other states were paying. In that sense, property taxes are one piece of a complex personal financial picture, and what may seem affordable to some may not to others.

    “Everybody complains about property taxes, but not everybody’s on the same rung on the financial ladder,” Mr. McCall said. Still, he said: “There are definitely people who can’t afford it. They’ve cut as much as they can from their budgets and there is just no more to give.”

    The New York Times recently interviewed four families who said that rising property taxes were sending them over the edge of financial stability. They included a couple moving to Nova Scotia to pay lower property taxes, and an 81-year-old woman from the Rochester suburbs who was mentioned by Governor Cuomo in his State of the State address last month because she continued to work in a school cafeteria so she could pay her taxes.

    Here are their stories.

    Jacqueline Cohen
    and Vaughan Smith

    Jacqueline Cohen and Vaughan Smith moved their pottery business and 12 cats to the Ulster County, N.Y., community of High Falls from Columbus, Ohio, in 1994. They paid $210,000 for an 1824 farmhouse on 1.9 acres, and spent $70,000 to build a studio out back. They later invested an additional $10,000 to add a gas kiln.
    After 17 years, though, they are moving to Nova Scotia — driven, they say, by the taxes on their home, which have tripled to $10,065 a year while their net income has fallen to $35,000.

    “I think property taxes are destroying our community,” Mr. Smith, 55, said, adding, “Families have to choose between paying their property taxes and buying health insurance and putting food on the table.”

    After paying their property taxes, the couple had about $25,000 left over for food, utilities and other living expenses. Health insurance was $8,000. Water was $700 a year, and garbage pickup $600. Switching to a wood stove lowered their heating oil bills to $600 a year from $2,000.

    As sales of their hand-crafted bowls, mugs and tableware have slowed, they have withdrawn $5,000 to $10,000 a year from their savings to cover their costs. “We’ve tried to hang on,” said Ms. Cohen, 54. “We’re self-employed and we don’t have a safety net of pensions. We have to be able to save, and that’s why we don’t see a future here.”

    The couple used their remaining $300,000 in savings to buy a 2.5-acre waterfront property in Nova Scotia, where they will pay just $1,440 in property taxes that include water and garbage pickup. They plan to sell their High Falls home, which is assessed at $430,000.

    They will pay a sales tax of 15 percent on items in Nova Scotia, compared with 8 percent in New York. But Mr. Smith calculated that income taxes would be about the same — roughly a third of their income.

    With Canada’s socialized medical system, they will no longer have to spend $8,000 a year on health insurance. Add what they will save in property taxes — more than $8,000 — and Mr. Smith said: “We’ll win by thousands. For regular working people, you’re better off."

    Geraldine Sullivan

    Geraldine Sullivan has spent her 81 years in the Rochester area, the last 50 of them in a 1928 Dutch Colonial-style house in Irondequoit that she bought for $15,000. The house is now valued at $73,000, according to property rolls.

    But while Ms. Sullivan’s home is paid off, she said, she has to work part-time as a kitchen server at a local high school to help pay the property taxes. In 2010, she paid $1,748 in school, town and county taxes (it would have been $3,276, but she benefited from a tax break for the elderly).

    Ms. Sullivan also paid $970 in property taxes on 23 acres of woods in the nearby town of Sodus that she and a friend bought as an investment for $14,000 more than two decades ago.

    She said the taxes on both properties claim about 17 percent of her net income of about $16,000 from the part-time job, Social Security and a small pension and 401(k) from Bausch & Lomb, where she worked in accounts payable for 25 years before retiring in 1995.

    The rest goes to groceries, doctor’s bills and repairs on her home, she said; in 2009, a water line break cost her $1,000. She does not have a television, a cellphone or a computer. She shops at dollar stores and keeps the second floor of her house closed off to save on heat.

    Ms. Sullivan said she had always lived modestly, raising three children by herself after a divorce. She said she hoped to preserve her land for conservation and to leave the money in the 401(k) to her three children, who are financially struggling themselves.

    Ms. Sullivan does not intend to move anytime soon but worries that she will no longer be able to afford to stay in her home.

    “I have everything in boxes,” she said. “When the day comes I can’t work anymore, I’ll just leave.”

    Jacquelyn Fike
    and Charles T. Fike

    Jacquelyn and Charles T. Fike moved their young family to the suburbs of Westchester County in 1974. They bought a three-bedroom house in Bronxville for $98,000 and, in 2005, took out a $350,000 mortgage to build a second floor for their son, Charles, 40, who has developmental disabilities on the autism spectrum.

    The Fikes each worked for more than 30 years at IBM; they have a net income of $130,000 annually from their combined pensions, Social Security and investments. They have also saved $850,000, which they hope to leave for their son’s care.

    But Mrs. Fike, 72, said that while they had planned carefully for retirement, they have had to dip into their savings to pay their property taxes, which have increased eightfold, to $34,181 a year from $4,200 when they moved in. The taxes claim 26 percent of their income, with annual mortgage payments of $22,800 absorbing an additional 17 percent.

    “We have done the best we can and we have been careful,” Mrs. Fike said, adding that they had forgone vacations and were sharing a 2001 Mazda since their second car had been crushed by a tree.

    As they grow older, medical bills have become a growing concern. Mr. Fike, 77, has Alzheimer’s disease and requires costly nursing care, which is currently covered by long-term care insurance that will eventually be exhausted. “Then some difficult decision will have to be made,” Mrs. Fike said.

    The Fikes also support their son, who receives about $800 a month in disability payments, some of which is used for therapy. He also works part time in the summer, maintaining tennis courts in the village, and collects cans and bottles for recycling.

    Mrs. Fike said she was reluctant to sell the house, now assessed at $1.5 million, because it is the only home that their son has ever known. “My son has made a life for himself in Bronxville,” she said. “He’s comfortable and he can be more competent when his home life and community are stable.”

    Still, Mrs. Fike said that she might have no choice some day.

    “It’s so upsetting that I don’t want to think about it,” she said. “Moving is all down sides; there’s no positives to it.”

    Kimberly Smith
    and Gregg Smith

    For Gregg and Kimberly Smith, the rising property taxes on their four-bedroom house in Walden, in Orange County, were one more in an avalanche of financial troubles.

    Mr. Smith, 41, a former telecommunications executive, was laid off twice after moving to New York in 2005. He said he and his wife had since depleted $50,000 in savings, racked up $60,000 in credit card charges from paying living expenses, and are filing for bankruptcy protection.

    Taxes on their 1.5-acre property rose 24 percent to $6,079 in five years, even as the market value went down; it was recently appraised for $267,000 by a local Realtor, or $82,000 less than they paid for it, the Smiths said.

    The couple gave up their home in November, defaulting on a $290,000 mortgage that they said they could no longer keep up with. They moved with their three younger children to Lakeland, Fla., where they stayed at first with relatives and now rent a house for $1,650 a month.

    Mr. Smith said they had always felt obligated to pay their property taxes, even when that meant cutting back on something else, like movies or groceries. In 2010, their property taxes claimed 9 percent of the family’s net income of $69,000. (The mortgage cost $2,465 a month until they stopped paying.)

    “It’s not like we saw an increase in services or better roads,” Mr. Smith said. “When nothing improved — and actually got worse — and my property value went down, it just made no sense.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/ny...1&ref=nyregion


  • #2
    Re: The Tax Tipping Point

    One logical solution would be to cut back on redundant layers of government, which is a New York state specialty (for example, does the county where Syracuse is located really need 22 school districts, 20 towns and cities, and 15 villages for fewer than 500,000 people)?

    Of course, it seems that most of the people who haven't emigrated yet have lived in the same town for decades and would never vote to cooperate with town X next door to save money just as a matter of town pride. It also feels like half of the people work for the government (or schools, or healthcare system, or colleges) because, well, they do, and so there's no incentive to cut back on government because that's basically the whole economy.

    Nothing will really change until the NYC FIRE industry collapses, and with it, the state's ability to effectively extract rent from the rest of the country.

    On the positive side, the property taxes and depopulation have sure helped to keep a housing bubble from forming up here.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Tax Tipping Point

      Originally posted by mmreilly View Post
      One logical solution would be to cut back on redundant layers of government, which is a New York state specialty (for example, does the county where Syracuse is located really need 22 school districts, 20 towns and cities, and 15 villages for fewer than 500,000 people)?

      Of course, it seems that most of the people who haven't emigrated yet have lived in the same town for decades and would never vote to cooperate with town X next door to save money just as a matter of town pride. It also feels like half of the people work for the government (or schools, or healthcare system, or colleges) because, well, they do, and so there's no incentive to cut back on government because that's basically the whole economy.

      Nothing will really change until the NYC FIRE industry collapses, and with it, the state's ability to effectively extract rent from the rest of the country.

      On the positive side, the property taxes and depopulation have sure helped to keep a housing bubble from forming up here.
      Thanks for the local news. I was born and raised in Syracuse. All my uncles worked in the productive economy there - GE, Crouse-Hinds, Autolite, etc. Jobs were plentiful. Then the neoliberal formula was applied. Now when I visit the factory workforce is a rent-a-cop asleep behind a chain link fence at the abandoned plant. That's the core change from my younger daze. I left when I was 17.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Tax Tipping Point

        Decent 25 year-old 14x54 mobile home in a decent 55+ mobile home community. Rent: $350 plus utilities; annual property taxes: $57.00. That's about the only thing I can brag about, though. This is the only way we can afford to live.

        The Fikes each worked for more than 30 years at IBM; they have a net income of $130,000 annually from their combined pensions, Social Security and investments. They have also saved $850,000...
        I can only dream of what it must feel like to have so much money saved up.

        Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Tax Tipping Point

          My neighbor told me about the high property taxes in upstate NY where he was from. Easily 3 or 4 times what he pays here for great schools, Fire, Police, etc. Why the huge difference? He seemed to think some of it was an attempt to keep out the riffraff by snobby upper class in small towns there. I find that hard to believe.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Tax Tipping Point

            Originally posted by shiny! View Post
            Decent 25 year-old 14x54 mobile home in a decent 55+ mobile home community. Rent: $350 plus utilities; annual property taxes: $57.00. That's about the only thing I can brag about, though. This is the only way we can afford to live.

            I can only dream of what it must feel like to have so much money saved up.
            My father-in-law was a lifetime saver. He owned a neighborhood hardware store in Brooklyn. Him and his wife lived a modest lifestyle. He bought the building and owned his home. All his savings were put into CDs. No speculating. When he retired to Florida he had saved an amount similar to the above. His monthly income was his SS and CD interest. At one time it could be done. A lifetime of prudence and hard work. Today the necessary year in - year out income above subsistence is much harder to find.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Tax Tipping Point

              Especially, with "safe" returns so low. I'm one of those modest lifestyle folks. I don't need nor want a new BMW every two years. And that has helped. But with costs continuing to rise, I am not so sure anymore I'll be able to keep up. A lot of baby boomers have been bailed out by their saver parents. What happens to the next generation, whose parents couldn't(or wouldn't) save as much. I still see a lower standard of living for America in the cards.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Tax Tipping Point

                Looks like a reprise of the 1978 campaign to pass Proposition 13: 'its for the old people'

                New York median property value (according to taxfoundation report above): $306,000
                Property tax percentage: 1.23%

                A look at the 5 counties in question (via http://rocdocs.democratandchronicle.com/map/property-taxes-new-york-state):

                Nassau:
                Median Home Value: $507500
                Median Household Income: $103831
                Median Property Tax: $8306
                Property tax as percent of value: 1.64%

                Westchester:
                Median Home Value: $581900
                Median Household Income: $111243
                Median Property Tax: $8404
                Property tax as percent of value: 1.44%

                Suffolk:
                Median Home Value: $442600
                Median Household Income: $94446
                Median Property Tax: $6842
                Property tax as percent of value: 1.55%

                Rockland:
                Median Home Value: $496900
                Median Household Income: $102409
                Median Property Tax: $7798
                Property tax as percent of value: 1.57%

                Putnam:
                Median Home Value: $430300
                Median Household Income: $98850
                Median Property Tax: $6917
                Property tax as percent of value: 1.61%

                The first 4 counties are all quite close to New York city and are likely affected by FIRE Central.

                Let's also compare with Beverly Hills, 90210:

                http://www.city-data.com/zips/90210.html#ixzz1EiUSmZyO

                Estimated median house/condo value in 2009: $786,412
                Estimate of real estate property taxes paid for housing units in 2009: $6,735

                Just to check, let's compare with data on the NY counties from city-data.com:

                Nassau:
                http://www.city-data.com/county/Nass...#ixzz1EiUzFFBX
                Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $475,500 (it was $240,200 in 2000)
                Median real estate property taxes paid for housing units with mortgages in 2009: $9,177 (1.9%)
                Mean price in 2009:

                Detached houses: $585,683
                Townhouses or other attached units: $587,793

                Seems consistent to me: higher property tax = lower housing cost.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Tax Tipping Point

                  Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                  Looks like a reprise of the 1978 campaign to pass Proposition 13: 'its for the old people'

                  New York median property value (according to taxfoundation report above): $306,000
                  Property tax percentage: 1.23%

                  A look at the 5 counties in question (via http://rocdocs.democratandchronicle.com/map/property-taxes-new-york-state):

                  Nassau:
                  Median Home Value: $507500
                  Median Household Income: $103831
                  Median Property Tax: $8306
                  Property tax as percent of value: 1.64%

                  Westchester:
                  Median Home Value: $581900
                  Median Household Income: $111243
                  Median Property Tax: $8404
                  Property tax as percent of value: 1.44%

                  Suffolk:
                  Median Home Value: $442600
                  Median Household Income: $94446
                  Median Property Tax: $6842
                  Property tax as percent of value: 1.55%

                  Rockland:
                  Median Home Value: $496900
                  Median Household Income: $102409
                  Median Property Tax: $7798
                  Property tax as percent of value: 1.57%

                  Putnam:
                  Median Home Value: $430300
                  Median Household Income: $98850
                  Median Property Tax: $6917
                  Property tax as percent of value: 1.61%

                  The first 4 counties are all quite close to New York city and are likely affected by FIRE Central.

                  Let's also compare with Beverly Hills, 90210:

                  http://www.city-data.com/zips/90210.html#ixzz1EiUSmZyO

                  Estimated median house/condo value in 2009: $786,412
                  Estimate of real estate property taxes paid for housing units in 2009: $6,735

                  Just to check, let's compare with data on the NY counties from city-data.com:

                  Nassau:
                  http://www.city-data.com/county/Nass...#ixzz1EiUzFFBX
                  Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $475,500 (it was $240,200 in 2000)
                  Median real estate property taxes paid for housing units with mortgages in 2009: $9,177 (1.9%)
                  Mean price in 2009:

                  Detached houses: $585,683
                  Townhouses or other attached units: $587,793

                  Seems consistent to me: higher property tax = lower housing cost.
                  Be interesting to know if the concomitant bonds, school taxes, higher business fees, etc. ubiquitous in Cali that have to makeup the difference for the lower property taxes (and the higher FIRE returns on bloated property prices) is applicable here.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Tax Tipping Point

                    I take pride in my own endeavors in this area.

                    2 summers ago I lived in a shared house just south of the University of Toronto, around $450 a month. No car, grocery stores just around the corner, walking distance from work, so I didn't even need the $120 per month transit pass ... banking 90% of my after tax income.

                    Everybody in the house was beyond shocked when they found out how old I am - they never ever EVER expected someone my age to be living in bad student housing, sleeping on the floor. One guy there I really came to respect floored me by telling me after I moved out he really admired me - he said I had more freedom than anyone he knew.

                    It was like the time an employer sent me to Finland for 6 months - the other guys on my team took the expensive route - cabs everywhere. I bought some train tickets (1% of the price) and enjoyed meeting the people (ahemmm. certain types of people anyway ... ; ) that I would not have met taking the taxis)


                    Originally posted by shiny! View Post
                    Decent 25 year-old 14x54 mobile home in a decent 55+ mobile home community. Rent: $350 plus utilities; annual property taxes: $57.00. That's about the only thing I can brag about, though. This is the only way we can afford to live.

                    I can only dream of what it must feel like to have so much money saved up.
                    Maybe they can only dream about being able to live on so little ...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Tax Tipping Point

                      congratulations you have found feedom. I am commited to a middle class lifestyle. I long for the mobile home freedom of shiny. I'm sorry they are struggling. I couldn't bear to move my kids. Some day I will tell them that this is a temporary situation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Tax Tipping Point

                        Some freedoms.

                        Not the best freedom yet though - freedom from ego & pride (pride at living with 1/10th the material possessions & expenses of my cohort).

                        Originally posted by charliebrown View Post
                        congratulations you have found feedom. I am commited to a middle class lifestyle. I long for the mobile home freedom of shiny. I'm sorry they are struggling. I couldn't bear to move my kids. Some day I will tell them that this is a temporary situation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Tax Tipping Point

                          Taxes are high in the NYC suburbs, to be sure, but at least the income levels are somewhat higher to compensate. The top 7 counties in the country in terms of property tax rates are all upstate (Buffalo / Rochester / Syracuse and surrounding areas), where the income profile is decidedly more average.

                          Basically the area has entered a death spiral where a smaller tax base with limited industry has to cover ever-increasing Medicaid, school, and bureaucracy costs, and it's unclear what might turn things around.

                          Unfortunately, the rest of the country may turn out like this soon - we just have a 40-year head start, so hopefully we'll be better prepared (looking very, very hard for a bright side...)


                          Property Taxes on Owner-Occupied Housing, by County* Ranked by Taxes as Percentage of Home Value - 2009


                          CountyStateMedian Property Taxes Paid on HomesRankMedian Home ValueTaxes as % of Home ValueRankMedian Income for Home OwnersTaxes as % of IncomeRank
                          United States--$1,917--$185,200 1.04%--$63,306 3.0%NM
                          MonroeNew York$3,89171$134,500 2.89%1$66,369 5.9%47
                          NiagaraNew York$2,867149$99,900 2.87%2$55,424 5.2%59
                          WayneNew York$3,051129$109,700 2.78%3$57,275 5.3%54
                          ChemungNew York$2,434230$93,100 2.61%4$55,156 4.4%108
                          ChautauquaNew York$2,102299$80,600 2.61%5$49,321 4.3%129
                          ErieNew York$3,119122$119,900 2.60%6$61,929 5.0%65
                          OnondagaNew York$3,156121$126,100 2.50%7$65,460 4.8%72

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Tax Tipping Point

                            Originally posted by don
                            Be interesting to know if the concomitant bonds, school taxes, higher business fees, etc. ubiquitous in Cali that have to makeup the difference for the lower property taxes (and the higher FIRE returns on bloated property prices) is applicable here.
                            It is debatable whether these fees are higher, and if they are, whether they make up for the biggest tax of all: winter heating bills in New York.

                            Comment

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