Wisconsin is the new Egypt?

[Stroebel]

Re: Wisconsin is the new Egypt?

BTW, I think that dcarrig was referring to calls for recall elections. There is serious momentum for this at the moment, but the Wisconsin constitution allows state officials to stay in office for at least one year before facing recall.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Wisconsin is the new Egypt?

BTW, I think that dcarrig was referring to calls for recall elections. There is serious momentum for this at the moment, but the Wisconsin constitution allows state officials to stay in office for at least one year before facing recall.

Thank you.

[Stroebel]

Re: Wisconsin is the new Egypt?

I don't understand why Fox News didn't take any shots of the signs that stated "Fox News Will Lie About This."

What an incredibly slanted piece of misinformation! It would be funny if people didn't actually accept it as "real." If Joseph Goebbels were alive today, he would be proud. I think that is a fair reference to a historic master of propaganda.

I was there; my office overlooks the square and I went down to check things out and talk with people. True: a few fringe people on the capitol square were exercising poor judgment in their signs. Ridiculous hyperbole. I also saw people discouraging such behavior, though. And the vast, vast majority of statements were constructive. (You'd never guess that by watching Hannity, though, which is a real disservice to Wisconsin and our democracy.)

The protests were peaceful.

[Master Shake]

Re: Wisconsin is the new Egypt?

Some really interesting points are being made in the above discussion, including by Master Shake. But don't get distracted by a few outliers.

During my time on the square, I have seen various references to Nazis during the past week by a very small minority of protestors. I haven't seen any cross hairs though. Emotions are running hot, so I wouldn't rule it out, but that's a Tea Party gimmick, so almost no one on the labor side will go there. There will always be some fringe nut jobs in any movement . . . but if a movement starts to become defined by veiled and not-so-veiled threats that it's time to get worried.

The protests have been heated at times, but peaceful. Both protestors and the police have managed things very well.

As for public unions, I have only my experience as a Wisconsinite to rely on. My personal experience has shown Wisconsin public servants to be hard-working, down-to-earth people. I am willing to venture that any available studies will confirm that we have had great public services in Wisconsin. Both past management and the unions share credit for this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110219/...about_governor

walker-crosshairs.jpg

I agree: don't get distracted by a few outliers. But that's exactly what happens when the discussion turns to the Tea Party. Even you yourself say, "that's a Tea Party gimmick." Explain to me why the Tea Party is a bunch of "angry white people" and the Wisconsin protesters aren't? FTR, I think it's irrelevent in both cases, but what's sauce for the goose....., eh?

[walenk]

Re: Wisconsin is the new Egypt?

Want to know which is which? Follow the Koch Brothers money.
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/20...public-unions/

[Stroebel]

Re: Wisconsin is the new Egypt?

Want to know which is which? Follow the Koch Brothers money.
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/20...public-unions/

The Koch Brothers have just opened a lobbying office in downtown Madison, WI.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/loca...cc4c03286.html


Master Shake: I hear what you are saying, but I don't think that hateful rhetoric is irrelevant for either pro-union protestors or the Tea Party, or any other group. Any hate-mongering is poisonous, no matter the source. I was disgusted by the (few) protestors I saw waiving around Nazi insignia, or flying Old Glory upside down.

Source and degree are important considerations, however.

The Tea Party is a new, invigorating movement within the Republican Party. Tea Party Candidates for Public Office and Organizational Leaders employed cross-hairs and ugly hunting metaphors. In my view, such rhetoric marks a significant escalation in irresponsible behavior. When our leaders promote such thinking, it will grow. I also believe that such behavior undermines the criticisms and ideas of the movement. The divide grows deeper.

I have not seen any union leaders or speakers in Madison during the past week employing destructive language. The protestors on both sides (yes, also the Tea Party too, on Saturday) have been passionate and peaceful.

[Master Shake]

Re: Wisconsin is the new Egypt?

The Koch Brothers have just opened a lobbying office in downtown Madison, WI.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/loca...cc4c03286.html


Master Shake: I hear what you are saying, but I don't think that hateful rhetoric is irrelevant for either pro-union protestors or the Tea Party, or any other group. Any hate-mongering is poisonous, no matter the source. I was disgusted by the (few) protestors I saw waiving around Nazi insignia, or flying Old Glory upside down.

Source and degree are important considerations, however.

The Tea Party is a new, invigorating movement within the Republican Party. Tea Party Candidates for Public Office and Organizational Leaders employed cross-hairs and ugly hunting metaphors. In my view, such rhetoric marks a significant escalation in irresponsible behavior. When our leaders promote such thinking, it will grow. I also believe that such behavior undermines the criticisms and ideas of the movement. The divide grows deeper.

I have not seen any union leaders or speakers in Madison during the past week employing destructive language. The protestors on both sides (yes, also the Tea Party too, on Saturday) have been passionate and peaceful.

What I think is irrelevent is characterizing an entire movement by the actions of a very small minority of people in the crowd.

I don't find hunting metaphors ugly and have no problem with either side "targeting" opposing political figure. Such imagery does not incite assassination attempts, violence, or any such thing. What I do object to is double standards in the reporting of such things.

[Stroebel]

Re: Wisconsin is the new Egypt?

What I think is irrelevent is characterizing an entire movement by the actions of a very small minority of people in the crowd.

I don't find hunting metaphors ugly and have no problem with either side "targeting" opposing political figure. Such imagery does not incite assassination attempts, violence, or any such thing. What I do object to is double standards in the reporting of such things.

My point wasn't inciting assassinations or violence, but rather personal responsibility and destructive rhetoric (as a "gimmick"). Are you taking the position that the leaders of the Tea Party a "small minority"? I view Sarah Palin and recently elected representatives as the cutting edge of the Republican Party.

I'm confused about your comment about double standards too. Shouldn't we expect more from our leaders?

Could you also explain how elections are comparable to hunting animals? I just don't understand the metaphor.

Thanks for explaining your point of view!