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uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

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  • uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

    from: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/bu...2&ref=business

    via: http://inflation.us/news.html
    China Is Poised to Raise Rates Again, Bankers Say

    Dale De La Rey/Bloomberg News
    China is trying to rein in rapidly rising bank lending that has paid for a surge in construction.



    HONG KONG — China’s government, increasingly worried about soaring inflation, plans to continue tightening its money supply and will probably raise interest rates again within the month.
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    Carlos Barria/Reuters

    A woman with a 50 renminbi bill at a butcher in Shanghai. China’s consumer price index rose 4.6 percent last year, but analysts said that underestimated inflation.





    That is the forecast of economists and bankers with knowledge of policy makers’ views, who insisted on anonymity because of the political and diplomatic sensitivity of Chinese monetary policy.
    Inflation lately has caused friction in China’s mighty export machine. Now, Beijing’s efforts to fight inflation, through higher interest rates and tighter restrictions on bank loans, could begin to slow segments of China’s domestic economy slightly — particularly the breakneck pace of investment in new factories, office buildings and apartment complexes.
    That, in turn, could weaken demand for industrial materials like steel and copper that depend heavily on Chinese purchases.
    And yet, the tighter-money policies and higher interest rates could be good news for Chinese consumers, whose spending China has been counting on for its next wave of growth — not only to help balance the country’s export-dominated economy but to enable more of the nation’s 1.3 billion citizens to share in its prosperity.
    For one thing, a slowdown in speculative construction could slow or even temporarily reverse the long rise of Chinese real estate prices, as 15 million people a year pour into the cities.
    And while much of the construction spending, and the loans that fuel it, involve state-owned companies, households in China are typically savers, not borrowers. They pay for most cars and other large purchases with cash. Even for new homes, they typically borrow half or less of the purchase price.
    So far, consumers frequently hold large bank deposits that earn interest rates well below the inflation rate. Higher interest on savings accounts, if the new policies allow, would only improve consumer purchasing power.
    Much of China’s inflation is being fueled by the extraordinary growth in its money supply, broadly measured as so-called M2, which has soared a total of nearly 53 percent in the last two years. That is largely a result of the country’s aggressive monetary and fiscal stimulus program in 2009 and early 2010, as Beijing essentially printed money in response to the global financial crisis.
    Although China’s economy is a little less than half that of the United States, its money supply is now one-quarter larger than America’s.
    Since the beginning of last year, Beijing has moved several times to start clamping back down on the money in circulation, by increasing the required amounts that banks must hold in reserve, leaving them with less money to lend. The central bank has raised this requirement seven times in the last 13 months, with four of those increases coming in quick succession since mid-November.
    The bank has also been raising interest rates. The benchmark rate for one-year corporate loans is now 5.81 percent, up from 5.31 percent a year ago. The central bank has already raised rates twice since late October, and is poised to raise them again this month, the economists and bankers said.
    Economists at international banks tend to agree that China needs to take even further action to limit inflation.
    “We believe Beijing must act more decisively on credit tightening to stop inflation from rising too fast,” said Qu Hongbin, the chief China economist at HSBC, in a research note on Monday.
    China’s consumer price index climbed 4.6 percent last year. But Chinese and Western economists say the index seriously underestimates inflation because of shortcomings in how it measures the introduction of new garments and other goods and because it entirely excludes the cost of owner-occupied housing. The National Bureau of Statistics in Beijing has said it is working on improving the index.
    One policy change Beijing is unlikely to take soon is letting the currency, the renminbi, appreciate faster as a way to fight inflation, the economists and bankers said.
    The renminbi has already been rising at an annualized rate of 5.7 percent against the dollar since China broke the currency’s peg to the dollar last June. China’s central bank continues to intervene heavily in currency markets to brake the renminbi’s rise, but not enough to stop the renminbi from rising altogether — as it did for almost two years before last June.
    The Obama administration, arguing that an artificially low renminbi gave Chinese exporters an unfair price advantage over Western companies, pushed China hard a year ago to break the link to the dollar. But Washington has been slightly less vocal on the subject more recently. It barely came up in public comments by either side after President Hu Jintao of China’s recent state visit to the White House.
    Lately, Chinese and American policy makers have been looking at the so-called real effective exchange rate, which includes differences in the two countries’ inflation levels. Inflation in the United States is currently running at a rate of only about 1.5 percent.
    Depending on which inflation index is chosen in each country, and whether any adjustments are made for the consistent underestimates of Chinese inflation because of methodology problems, the real effective exchange rate measure shows that the renminbi is strengthening by 10 percent or more a year against the dollar.
    The Treasury secretary, Timothy F. Geithner, has said that this real exchange rate is showing that Chinese exporters already face rising costs as they try to stay competitive in the United States market.
    There has been some uncertainty in financial markets since Mr. Hu announced in early December that the country would pursue a “stable” monetary policy.
    But the People’s Bank of China, the country’s central bank, has signaled in no fewer than a dozen statements since Mr. Hu’s remarks that it plans to throttle back the torrents of money still sloshing through the Chinese economy. And a policy paper from the central bank this winter indicated that, in Beijing, “stable” can in fact mean “tighter.”
    The paper described five settings for Chinese monetary policy: easy, suitably easy, stable, suitably tight and tight.
    The paper said that policy had moved from suitably easy to stable.

  • #2
    Re: uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

    Originally posted by lektrode View Post
    ...HONG KONG — China’s government, increasingly worried about soaring inflation, plans to continue tightening its money supply and will probably raise interest rates again within the month...
    Didn't take long.

    BEIJING (AP) — China's central bank raised interest rates for the second time in just over a month in a bid to dampen high inflation and guide blistering economic growth to a sustainable level.

    tug... tug... tug...

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    • #3
      Re: uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

      Originally posted by zoog View Post
      Didn't take long.

      BEIJING (AP) — China's central bank raised interest rates for the second time in just over a month in a bid to dampen high inflation and guide blistering economic growth to a sustainable level.

      tug... tug... tug...
      Yup, thought of these very threads this morning. Tug tug tug.....

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

        Originally posted by Bloomberg News
        The paper described five settings for Chinese monetary policy: easy, suitably easy, stable, suitably tight and tight.
        Is it just me, or is this type of statement something you'd expect to see over a cathouse?

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        • #5
          Re: uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

          Maybe I'm dense, but what does this article have to do with Krugman?

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          • #6
            Re: uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

            Originally posted by Munger View Post
            Maybe I'm dense, but what does this article have to do with Krugman?
            see: http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php/18359-krugman-DONT-raise-interest-rates-(or-as-EJ-sez-watch-what-happens-when)

            you couldnt possibly be any denser than i am (compliment ;) and even i think its time to raise interest rates, for one thing, i'm getting tired of having the savings that i've worked my ass off to put away being siphoned off by bernanke and to have this partisan shill/krank/krakpot/fraud keep telling the DC aristocracy that benanke's policies are good for the country because the unemployment rate is 'still too high' is getting to the point that i think krugman is The Problem - even moreso than the bernank - why? cuz krugman is providing cover and a convenient _distraction_ for the EXTRACTION that the FIREman are getting away with!

            and THANK YOU c1ue - you are becoming The Voice of Reason in the big picture (for me and a lot of others, i suspect)

            other than that, i dont really have an opinion....

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

              Originally posted by c1ue View Post
              Is it just me, or is this type of statement something you'd expect to see over a cathouse?
              easy, suitably easy, stable, suitably tight and tight = sounds like something from austin powers' GOLDMEMBER ;)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

                Ok -- your points are taken. But, Krugman has long-acknowledged inflation troubles in China, and has long urged them to raise their rates. So not sure if this is contradicting him ...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

                  hmmm yields on vanguard money funds creeping up.
                  prime=.07% 5 month high, treasury=.03% 15 month high.

                  There are arguments out there that the fed follows the market on interest rates and not the other way around.
                  It will be interesting if rates mm rates close in on .25%.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: uh oh... tug.. tug.. tug.. even china thnks krugman's wrong?

                    From Zerohedge today:

                    China Is Orchestrating A 30% Crash In The Property Market



                    Something curious was noted this morning on CNBC Europe: namely a reference to an article in the Shanghai Financial News, according to which China is quietly (or not so quietly) trying to orchestrate a 30% drop in real estate prices, in the form of a "Thunder attack" which combines increased purchase costs, property taxes as well as the rise in interest rates. If proven true, this is a major flashing red sign of just how out of control inflation, especially property and real estate, is in China, and that future CPI readings (not the official Politburo number, but that which people actually have to live with) will be getting progressively worse. Also, for the government to step in with such a drastic measure, it must mean that the discontent on the ground must be approaching a fever pitch.
                    From Shanghai Daily News (apologies for the Google translation from simplified Han - we ask any native readers to provide a better translation):
                    Regulation has been to attack the third round of first-tier cities real estate prices down 30%

                    Thunder attack the third round of real estate regulation, the rapid combination of boxing, so property prices forced counterattack, a few days could not proud of the real estate business and speculators by surprise. This time, a property "hot pot" of the "lid" was covered up.

                    Increase purchase cost, the purchase of, property tax, this three-pronged approach, if implemented in place, the actual interest rate has been through administrative restrictions and basically blocked the tax price of the property market investment (speculative) demand.

                    That property prices continue to rise, "lid" was tightly closed out. At the same time, "further implementation of local government" and "the construction of housing projects to increase security efforts", the attempt to increase the supply of low-rent housing on the market, "pot" to root of the problem.

                    After this shot of a combination of boxing, I believe that covers "lid" will directly effect. Property market turnover will be greatly reduced, as the CPI is likely to continue to promote further interest rate rise, real estate holding costs will continue to increase, investors who own multiple sets of housing will withstand the pressure to sell vacuum, once the panic selling a conservative estimate, prices have to appear about 30% pullback.

                    New "state of eight" and the property tax was intended to curb property speculation, if the effectiveness of control there, holding costs sharply, but more substantial price correction, then the past 10 years, the emergence of many hundreds of millions of Chinese cities, million "property rich" will be their colors.

                    It is true that the local government to increase efforts in building affordable housing projects, the author is not optimistic, because the event of a fall in property prices, local government finance will decrease the land, local government expenditure in the expanding case, expect them to spend more money for housing support, which is obviously unrealistic. Only a few strong ability to govern the city, it is anticipated to increase in 2011 the so-called efforts to protect the room is still on paper.

                    In the new "National Eight" and after the introduction of property taxes, house prices in 2011 is yes, then the next problem is that people are most concerned about - how much will fall?

                    Unfortunately, house prices will fall much, not primarily controlled by the Chinese, how much house prices will fall, the key to CPI (an important factor in the decision to raise interest rates); the CPI mainly agricultural products (16.70, -0.40, -2.34%), price determination; the prices of agricultural products mainly by the United States or U.S. agricultural futures markets and Wall Street's financial oligarchy decision. Despite the gains in agricultural products in 2011 has been crazy, but the international investment bank is still talking up the recent agricultural products, while vigorously pushing up oil prices - fertilizer and other major agricultural products are produced from petroleum.

                    That the future we may see the prices of agricultural products continued eruption scenario. The logic is this: abnormal weather and natural disasters (such as the present drought in north China) - International investment bank pushed up oil prices - prices of fertilizer and other agricultural materials - Chinese farm products are rigid gap - the international hot money frenzied speculation - agricultural prices continue to soar - the CPI rose to more than 10%, mortgage interest rates to 12% or more - more and more Chinese who can not afford the interest stuck with speculation - have to sell from the start of a small amount of falling house prices, but it is difficult sell - a lot of panic selling, housing prices fell.

                    Conclude that China's rate of falling house prices, the petroleum and agricultural price rises in the decision.

                    In addition, the decision to declines in property prices in China, there are two important factors:

                    First, China's monetary tightening efforts, a variety of information from the current point of view, not in the short term reversal of contraction. Recently, the central bank governor Zhou Xiaochuan also said that despite the deposit reserve rate has been high, but the future will still use the tools and the central voting issue to hedge liquidity. Second, the decision on whether a large-scale withdrawal of international hot money in China.

                    Overall, prices in China for the future, I am not optimistic. Those who still holds a lot of investment houses were in big trouble, the property market and, unlike stocks, transaction costs are very high, sell when up, or when the shot is very difficult to do. Of course, a few brave people can ton output capacity, but most will put the lid on, as has been in the "frog" in the continued heating, it had lost the strength to flee.

                    There are a lot of trouble holding the same land, but cash flow poor real estate agency in the next couple of years than they are likely to encounter more challenges in 2008. Dragged by the property market, the stock market is difficult to be optimistic.

                    The coming year, the Chinese economy and Chinese enterprises will face very serious challenges, the extent to less than 2008, the appreciation of the RMB, high resource prices, high agricultural prices, labor costs, etc., the cost of increasing rigidity in China; The high reserve ratio, high interest rates, falling house prices, stock prices fell, and so will become scarce liquidity. In this backdrop, Chinese companies are still profitable if it must have extraordinary ability.

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