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Escalation in Egypt

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  • Re: Escalation in Egypt

    Let America Be America Again by Langston Hughes

    Let America be America again.
    Let it be the dream it used to be.
    Let it be the pioneer on the plain
    Seeking a home where he himself is free.

    (America never was America to me.)

    Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed--
    Let it be that great strong land of love
    Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
    That any man be crushed by one above.

    (It never was America to me.)

    O, let my land be a land where Liberty
    Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,
    But opportunity is real, and life is free,
    Equality is in the air we breathe.

    (There's never been equality for me,
    Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")

    Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?
    And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?

    I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
    I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.
    I am the red man driven from the land,
    I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek--
    And finding only the same old stupid plan
    Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.

    I am the young man, full of strength and hope,
    Tangled in that ancient endless chain
    Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!
    Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!
    Of work the men! Of take the pay!
    Of owning everything for one's own greed!

    I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.
    I am the worker sold to the machine.
    I am the Negro, servant to you all.
    I am the people, humble, hungry, mean--
    Hungry yet today despite the dream.
    Beaten yet today--O, Pioneers!
    I am the man who never got ahead,
    The poorest worker bartered through the years.

    Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream
    In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
    Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
    That even yet its mighty daring sings
    In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
    That's made America the land it has become.
    O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas
    In search of what I meant to be my home--
    For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,
    And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,
    And torn from Black Africa's strand I came
    To build a "homeland of the free."

    The free?

    Who said the free? Not me?
    Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
    The millions shot down when we strike?
    The millions who have nothing for our pay?
    For all the dreams we've dreamed
    And all the songs we've sung
    And all the hopes we've held
    And all the flags we've hung,
    The millions who have nothing for our pay--
    Except the dream that's almost dead today.

    O, let America be America again--
    The land that never has been yet--
    And yet must be--the land where every man is free.
    The land that's mine--the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME--
    Who made America,
    Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
    Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
    Must bring back our mighty dream again.

    Sure, call me any ugly name you choose--
    The steel of freedom does not stain.
    From those who live like leeches on the people's lives,
    We must take back our land again,
    America!

    O, yes,
    I say it plain,
    America never was America to me,
    And yet I swear this oath--
    America will be!

    Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
    The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
    We, the people, must redeem
    The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
    The mountains and the endless plain--
    All, all the stretch of these great green states--
    And make America again!

    Comment


    • Re: Escalation in Egypt

      Originally posted by oddlots View Post
      Just a reality test (thinking out loud):

      I admit I'm confused about this myself, but is the Muslim Brotherhood really who we think they are?

      Who the MB is doesn't really matter to anyone with the exception of Israel. it doesn't even matter to Americans. It doesn't even matter for oil buyers. As proof the Chinese are buying really cheap oil from the Persians.

      If you ask me, why fight over pieces of rock and sand?

      Comment


      • Re: Escalation in Egypt

        "don" the article by Vijay Prashad is a very good analysis of what is happening. The "ingredient" for destabilization is there. Young people in large numbers, educated but with no prospect to fullfill their dreams, ruling class in power for it would seem Forever, and rising prices for things necessary to live on. Once that is in place it is just a matter of time before it all ignites.

        Comment


        • Re: Escalation in Egypt

          Having started this thread, I must apologize for not commenting recently. I have a habit of collecting information and then breaking it down into Important or peripheral. It is my way. I was aghast that EJ has responded and I give a big nod to Karim for providing so much detailed information.GRG55 and Shakespeare have, as always lifted the eyes. Don prods thought in his own way. The link is at the start of the thread and I chose it carefully because it is the heart beat
          Ladies and Gentleman we are in a few hours to see if the people win.
          I am proud to see that the people of that ancient land, love their Country, they have NOT chosen Anarchy over respect for themselves and I am surprised, for that is the easy action. They have shown restraint beyond what I would have expected.
          Mubarak is finished but a snake cornered can be a dangerous thing. This is not a fight for power, this is a fight for control over power. He has an arsenal to kill this.
          He can cut power, food, water, medicine can be made scarce, internet and social sites can be feed misinformation. Fuel can be shut off, terrorism can be made reality, harrasement and fear of anarchy can be made real to peace loving people but the Army has kissed him good bye.
          My belief is he will use all or some off these things, but he will not win. I think the Army will take over but a vacuous need will arise. The Army will not surfice except to keep the anarchy at bay until it (the Army)cannot be everywhere at once. There needs to be a credible alternative and no matter what I have read or seen, there is none except more puppets and say what you want these people are aware of that. You have only a fearless state desire to rid yourself of this past but the future appears to me a blood bath, a complete disaster for the stability of the most stable of Muselem countries. It has implications for every one and I can say without fear some in power in America and Israel are having to look at possible alternative to what they thought 'was' the status quo. Some have asked if this is a "black swan" that will change the World as we know it. Well I don't know. It is certainly a very large Butterfly Flapping its wings in what was once rainforest. Do the people fold, does the Army take hold, does Mabarak leave... it is just the movement of air from static to release as the 'wings of change' struggle to get up and away.
          They the people will win - what they win, I fear most.

          Comment


          • Re: Escalation in Egypt

            Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
            Iran.
            Or Jordan?

            http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...02-01-07-58-04

            Jordan's king fires Cabinet amid protests

            Comment


            • Re: Escalation in Egypt

              One of the major dangers at this moment is a split in the Army. If that happens the chances of a civil war go up dramatically.
              This is the key to what happens in Egypt. I know they have always had their factions, remember the assassination of Sadat? Anyone know much about the Egyptian Army of today?

              Comment


              • Re: Escalation in Egypt

                Anyone know how much things like food deliveries and utilities have been affected by all this? Seems like Mubarak's strategy is to wait them out and hope people's human needs take over.

                Comment


                • Re: Escalation in Egypt

                  Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                  Anyone know how much things like food deliveries and utilities have been affected by all this? Seems like Mubarak's strategy is to wait them out and hope people's human needs take over.

                  I'm more concerned over the logistics of supplying that couple hundred thousand people on the square?

                  Comment


                  • Re: Escalation in Egypt

                    Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                    My second guess would be Syria...

                    Once again, as I pointed out two years ago regards Egypt, these things never happen in the "obvious" places...

                    Comment


                    • Re: Escalation in Egypt

                      Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                      Can they find Egypt or the Gulf on a map?
                      all the same


                      The Telegraph Wikileaks article is still good
                      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-uprising.html

                      Also interesting is the Soros Brezinski ElBaradai International Crisis Group angle
                      http://www.infowars.com/globalist-st...an-revolution/

                      1. (C) Summary and comment: On December 23, April 6 activist xxxxxxxxxxxx expressed
                      satisfaction with his participation in the December 3-5 \"Alliance of
                      Youth Movements Summit,\" and with his subsequent meetings with USG
                      officials, on Capitol Hill, and with think tanks. He described how
                      State Security (SSIS) detained him at the Cairo airport upon his
                      return and confiscated his notes for his summit presentation calling
                      for democratic change in Egypt, and his schedule for his Congressional
                      meetings. xxxxxxxxxxxx contended that the GOE will never undertake
                      significant reform, and therefore, Egyptians need to replace the
                      current regime with a parliamentary democracy. He alleged that
                      several opposition parties and movements have accepted an unwritten
                      plan for democratic transition by 2011; we are doubtful of this claim.







                      5. (C) xxxxxxxxxxxx described how he tried to convince his Washington interlocutors that the USG should pressure the GOE to
                      implement significant reforms by threatening to reveal CAIRO 00002572
                      002 OF 002 information about GOE officials' alleged \"illegal\"
                      off-shore bank accounts. He hoped that the U.S. and the international
                      community would freeze these bank accounts, like the accounts of
                      Zimbabwean President Mugabe's confidantes.

                      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rotesters.html
                      The same Ambassador from the US cable

                      U.S. ambassador meets with Egypt pro-democracy leader ElBaradei

                      U.S. state department spokesman says the meet is part of U.S. outreach to convey support for an 'orderly transition in Egypt.'


                      http://www.haaretz.com/news/internat...radei-1.340623
                      Former revolutionaries who helped topple Serbian strongman Slobodan Milosevic, and then went on to assist others shake off their dictatorships, praised on Tuesday the largely peaceful anti-government protests in Egypt.
                      The protests in Egypt are similar to the ones in Serbia in 2000 that ended Milosevic's 10-year autocratic rule, said Srdja Popovic, former leader of Otpor, or the Resistance movement.
                      "On one side, we have an undemocratic regime," Popovic said. "And on the other, we have strong and liberal youth."
                      With its colorful publicity stunts to draw attention to their ideas, Otpor was the force behind Milosevic's downfall. The student group then helped topple dictatorships in Ukraine and Georgia.
                      The now-disbanded group's symbol — a clenched white fist on a black background — could also be seen on flags carried by protesters on Cairo streets.


                      http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/wor...115001274.html
                      A number of Serbian news sources of varying quality (Alo, Vesti Online) have now published articles suggesting that former Otpor activists have been training some opposition groups, including interviews with anonymous former Otpor members and the Serbian embassy.

                      The main group in question seems to be April 6, launched first as a facebook group. The group has currently over 87,000 members and has been active for nearly three years already.


                      http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/blog...ction-in-egypt
                      Those color revolution guys are really lazy

                      Last edited by D-Mack; February 01, 2011, 03:02 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Escalation in Egypt

                        Originally posted by lakedaemonian View Post
                        Would it be possible to elaborate on your reasonings behind Iran being at risk?

                        ...
                        Very similar situation to Egypt. Main difference is that instead of the USA pouring money into the country, it is leading the sanctions effort to restrict the money, which makes things even worse in that country. More than half the population of Iran know about the Shah's regime only through history books, because it was before they were born. All they know is the mullahs, the rampant corruption of the Revolutionary Guard, and there's the same simmering resentment just under the surface. In 1999 a major opposition movement, that started with the students in the universities, erupted. That time the authorities managed to quell the public unrest. It flared up again about 6 years ago, same outcome.

                        But how many more times will they be able to do that? The way the last elections were rigged has not gone down well with the people of Iran. The West has moved on and mostly forgotten the death of Neda Agha-Soltan. Many, many Iranians have not.

                        Iran is not an Arab nation, so discerning exactly what inspiration its citizens may take from events in North Africa and elsewhere in the Arab world is difficult. But just as I pointed out two years ago that Egypt was a hot spot that warranted close watching, I think today Iran fits the same profile.

                        By the way, I was living in the Arab part of the Persian Gulf on September 11 2001. For those Americans who may still not know this, while the widespread reaction on the Arab side of the Gulf was one of satisfaction and joy [which I observed first hand], something quite different was happening on the other side of the Gulf in Iran - unique in the Middle East. There's a big, big gap between the people of Iran and the government of Iran... http://www.time.com/time/europe/photoessays/vigil/
                        Last edited by GRG55; February 01, 2011, 03:15 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Escalation in Egypt


                          Google tool helps hundreds tweet from Egypt

                          By Tim Bradshaw in London
                          Published: February 1 2011 16:33 | Last updated: February 1 2011 16:33

                          Hundreds of Egyptian protesters have turned to Google’s “Speak to Tweet” tool within hours of its launch, allowing them to post messages to Twitter via telephone.
                          The service, unveiled on Monday night, has allowed demonstrators to get around state restrictions on media and communications in Egypt.


                          http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3447c40c-2...#axzz1CjMOJKA1


                          The U.S. State Department doesn't usually take an interest in the maintenance schedules of dotcom start-ups. But over the weekend, officials there reached out to Twitter and asked them to delay a network upgrade that was scheduled for Monday night. The reason? To protect the interests of Iranians using the service to protest the presidential election that took place on June 12. Twitter moved the upgrade to 2 p.m. P.T. Tuesday afternoon — or 1:30 a.m. Tehran time.

                          Quick programmers over at google

                          Comment


                          • Re: Escalation in Egypt

                            Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                            Very similar situation to Egypt. Main difference is that instead of the USA pouring money into the country, it is leading the sanctions effort to restrict the money, which makes things even worse in that country. More than half the population of Iran know about the Shah's regime only through history books, because it was before they were born. All they know is the mullahs, the rampant corruption of the Revolutionary Guard, and there's the same simmering resentment just under the surface. In 1999 a major opposition movement, that started with the students in the universities, erupted. That time the authorities managed to quell the public unrest. It flared up again about 6 years ago, same outcome.

                            But how many more times will they be able to do that? The way the last elections were rigged has not gone down well with the people of Iran. The West has moved on and mostly forgotten the death of Neda Agha-Soltan. Many, many Iranians have not.

                            Iran is not an Arab nation, so discerning exactly what inspiration its citizens may take from events in North Africa and elsewhere in the Arab world is difficult. But just as I pointed out two years ago that Egypt was a hot spot that warranted close watching, I think today Iran fits the same profile.

                            By the way, I was living in the Arab part of the Persian Gulf on September 11 2001. For those Americans who may still not know this, while the widespread reaction on the Arab side of the Gulf was one of satisfaction and joy [which I observed first hand], something quite different was happening on the other side of the Gulf in Iran - unique in the Middle East. There's a big, big gap between the people of Iran and the government of Iran... http://www.time.com/time/europe/photoessays/vigil/
                            the egyptian army, an army of conscripts and apparently an institution held in popular esteem, has refrained from imposing "order." in iran, however, the public insitutions of official violence - not just the police as in egypt - seem quite prepared to attack their own citizens. won't any popular demonstrations in iran be met with a severe and violent response?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Escalation in Egypt

                              There was a very interesting and enlightening interview with Stephen Cohen on As It Happens on CBC. In it he discusses the behind the scenes effort to transition to something else:

                              It starts at ~ minute 8:30.

                              http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/episod...bruary-1-2011/

                              Comment


                              • Re: Escalation in Egypt

                                The Torture Career of Egypt's New Vice President: Omar Suleiman and the Rendition to Torture Program

                                by Stephen Soldz
                                In response to the mass protests of recent days, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has appointed his first Vice President in his over 30 years rule, intelligence chief Omar Suleiman. When Suleiman was first announced, Aljazeera commentators were describing him as a "distinguished" and "respected " man. It turns out, however, that he is distinguished for, among other things, his central role in Egyptian torture and in the US rendition to torture program. Further, he is "respected" by US officials for his cooperation with their torture plans, among other initiatives.


                                http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/01/30-2




                                2. (S) On March 29, XXXXXXXXXXXX noted to poloff his assessment that
                                the recently approved constitutional amendments package is
                                largely aimed at ensuring Gamal Mubarak's succession of his
                                father, and "a more controllable, stable political scene when
                                he does take the reins." Opining that "Gamal and his clique"
                                are becoming more confident in the inevitability of Gamal's
                                succession, and are now angling to remove potential
                                "stumbling blocks," XXXXXXXXXXXX said that speculation among Cairo's
                                elite is that there could be a cabinet reshuffle as soon as
                                May or June, in which Minister of Defense Tantawi and/or EGIS
                                head Omar Suleiman would be replaced. "Those two are
                                increasingly viewed as a threat by Gamal and those around
                                him," and thus Gamal is reportedly pushing Mubarak to get
                                them out of the way, so they "could not pose any problems" in
                                the event of a succession.
                                XXXXXXXXXXXX speculated that "hitches"
                                to a Gamal succession could occur if Mubarak died before
                                installing his son: "Gamal knows this, and so wants to stack
                                the deck in his favor as much as possible now, while Mubarak
                                is firmly in control, just in case his father drops dead

                                ...

                                5. (C) In terms of his personal political aspirations, XXXXXXXXXXXX
                                told poloff he has XXXXXXXXXXXX the XXXXXXXXXXXX, founded by XXXXXXXXXXXX

                                ---------------------------------------
                                XXXXXXXXXXXX
                                ---------------------------------------

                                6. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX noted that hisXXXXXXXXXXXX (per ref B, a
                                XXXXXXXXXXXX), is XXXXXXXXXXXX at the XXXXXXXXXXXX, due to what XXXXXXXXXXXX termed the continuing XXXXXXXXXXXX. According
                                to XXXXXXXXXXXX, MinDef Tantawi called him XXXXXXXXXXXX to
                                ensure that XXXXXXXXXXXX was satisfied as to how XXXXXXXXXXXX was being
                                XXXXXXXXXXXX. XXXXXXXXXXXX said he engaged XXXXXXXXXXXX with XXXXXXXXXXXX, asking him to help get XXXXXXXXXXXX, as he has already XXXXXXXXXXXX and
                                "XXXXXXXXXXXX" XXXXXXXXXXXX allegedly checked with XXXXXXXXXXXX,
                                then replied that XXXXXXXXXXXX cannot be XXXXXXXXXXXX before he XXXXXXXXXXXX, as, "we are under terrible foreign pressure to
                                XXXXXXXXXXXX, so cannot XXXXXXXXXXXX, as they will
                                then criticize us for not XXXXXXXXXXXX too." XXXXXXXXXXXX
                                subsequent suggestion to XXXXXXXXXXXX both XXXXXXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXXXXXX went
                                unheeded. However, XXXXXXXXXXXX allegedly told XXXXXXXXXXXX that he had
                                instructed XXXXXXXXXXXX to not
                                undertake any procedures to divest XXXXXXXXXXXX of his
                                XXXXXXXXXXXX; XXXXXXXXXXXX
                                therefore believes XXXXXXXXXXXX will be able to re-assume XXXXXXXXXXXX
                                http://www.wikileaks.ch/cable/2007/04/07CAIRO974.html
                                Where do the redactions come from ?
                                Last edited by D-Mack; February 01, 2011, 09:28 PM.

                                Comment

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