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  • More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

    http://education.change.org/blog/vie...versity_online

    All they wanted was an education. All they got was debt. More and more former students at Kaplan University - the lucrative chain of "for-profit" colleges owned by the Washington Post Company - are coming forward with horror stories about the bogus classes, surprise fees and deceptive policies they encountered as they struggled to achieve the American dream. And they're asking for your help.

    Led by former student Shannon Croteau - who was 11 classes away from graduating with a bachelor's degree in paralegal studies when she discovered she was out of financial aid, $30,000 in debt at that the degree would be worthless in her home state of New Hampshire - a group of former students are demanding that Graham shut down Kaplan University until changes are made.

    They want the Washington Post and Kaplan University Online to handle student grievances with an independent, third-party system. That way, allegations of foul play will be handled fairly, instead of being swept under the rug.

    Students at "for-profit" colleges like Kaplan University and the University of Phoenix are promised an easy, convenient way to earn a college degree. Instead, many students are drowning in debt with nothing to show for it. The University of Phoenix's graduation rate is just nine percent, the Education Trust reports. For-profit students make up almost half of those who default on their student loans.

    Once they're enrolled, students discover loans they never signed up for and bills for classes they never took. They find themselves harassed on the phone (one prospective student was called 180 times in one month) and dogged by creditors at their door.

    Even though explosive investigations from media outlets and government agencies have exposed industry-wide fraud, heads of for-profit colleges defend their schools as valuable ways for nontraditional students to earn degrees. What they don't admit is that in many cases, for-profit colleges are simply sinkholes for federal student aid dollars. For-profits siphoned off 4.3 billion in federal student aid money in 2008-2009.

    No more, some students are saying. Sign the Change.org petition: stand with Croteau and other former students and demand that Washington Post Chairman Donald Graham commit to shutting down admissions to Kaplan until he's made meaningful change.

  • #2
    Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

    This is nasty, nasty stuff...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

      Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post
      This is nasty, nasty stuff...
      dont think you've seen the 1/2 of it.... watch mega from here, for the next clue
      (then theres whats happnin out my way...)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

        http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...llegeinc/view/

        Frontline did a great episode on for profit education. It's basically sub prime education with the Federal Government subsidizing it. These loans, unlike mortgages, follow the borrower through life. These slimeballs target our military personnel to get at their veteran's education benefits.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

          University of Phoenix has a pretty impressive graduation rate - it's almost as high as the default rate for students "attending" for-profit schools in 2008. I can only imagine what the default rate was for 2009...

          Student Loan Default Rates Increase
          Borrowers At For-Profit Schools Represent Large and Growing Share of Loan Defaults

          U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan today announced that the FY 2008 national cohort default rate is 7.0 percent, up from the FY 2007 rate of 6.7 percent. The default rates increased from 5.9 to 6 percent for public institutions, from 3.7 to 4 percent for private institutions, and from 11 to 11.6 percent for for-profit schools.

          The default rate announced today -- the most recent data available -- is a snapshot in time, representing the cohort of borrowers whose first loan repayments came due between October 1, 2007 and September 30, 2008, and who defaulted before September 30, 2009. During this time, almost 3.4 million borrowers entered repayment, and more than 238,000 defaulted on their loans. They attended 5,860 participating institutions. Borrowers who default after their first two years of repayment are not measured as defaulters in today's data.

          "This data confirms what we already know: that many students are struggling to pay back their student loans during very difficult economic times. That's why the Administration has expanded programs like income based repayment and Pell grants to help students in financial need," said U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan.

          "The data also tells us that students attending for-profit schools are the most likely to default," Duncan continued. "While for-profit schools have profited and prospered thanks to federal dollars, some of their students have not. Far too many for-profit schools are saddling students with debt they cannot afford in exchange for degrees and certificates they cannot use. This is a disservice to students and taxpayers, and undermines the valuable work being done by the for-profit education industry as a whole," Duncan continued.

          In award year 2008-09, students at for-profit schools represented 26 percent of the borrower population and 43 percent of all defaulters. The median federal student loan debt carried by students earning associate degrees at for-profit institutions was $14,000. The majority of students at community colleges do not borrow...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

            Originally posted by BigBagel View Post
            http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...llegeinc/view/

            Frontline did a great episode on for profit education. It's basically sub prime education with the Federal Government subsidizing it. These loans, unlike mortgages, follow the borrower through life. These slimeballs target our military personnel to get at their veteran's education benefits.
            Ah, yes, the recurring theme in all these scandals ... government enablement and backing.
            I would go one step further and say the Gov actually makes the market for online for-profit edu.

            Our government grants this entitlement because THE PEOPLE WANT IT.

            Do you see these journalist placing one iota of responsibility on the student/borrower?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

              Here are the current monster.com job listings for Kaplan University (41,000 students online & on campuses):

              KU Campus President administer and supervise all operations of the school, including exercise of budget controls, oversight of staffing, marketing, community involvement, and course development

              Affiliate Marketing Manager Determine the demand for products and services

              KU Admissions Advisor-Graduate works diligently to contact and enroll students in graduate degree and certificate programs.

              KNEXT Project Manager planning, monitoring and controlling the execution of assigned projects.

              KNEXT Learning Advisor responsible for enrolling learners in educational products and services, and advising customer purchases from outbound marketing efforts

              Director of Marketing drive the growth of our online school

              KU Marketing Manager help drive the growth of our online schools

              Academic Advisor Coach students to a level of academic self-sufficiency as their degree program progresses by utilizing a pre-determined catalog of courses; Adhere to contact rate, registration rate, and other metrics; Monitor high rates of student matriculation, graduation, and overall retention

              KU Librarian supporting delivery of library services

              Marketing Analyst transform online higher education

              KU Group LEAD Program provides the opportunity for high-potential leaders to gain a broad perspective of the functions that are critical to the organization

              KNEXT Assessment Manager provide support to students who wish to earn college credit for their experiential learning.

              Educational Researcher-Virtual works with the Center for Teaching and Learning on research projects that promote learning, teaching, and student success

              Instructor positions advertised on Kaplan web site:

              Finance Online Instructor
              Graduate Accounting Online Instructor
              Accounting Online Instructor
              Composition Online Instructor, Legal Studies
              Graduate Legal Studies Online Instructor
              Science Online Instructor

              Now here's a similar sized school, population-wise. University of South Florida serving about 45,000 students:

              https://employment.usf.edu/applicant...esults_css.jsp

              114 real-time instructor positions

              https://employment.usf.edu/applicant...esults_css.jsp

              26 staff positions (on a quick perusal, not a single one looks like a marketing job)

              https://employment.usf.edu/applicant...esults_css.jsp

              63 administration slots (looks like just one dedicated pick pocket for hire and very few other marketing positions)

              Will the real university please stand up.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

                Originally posted by BigBagel View Post
                http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...llegeinc/view/It's basically sub prime education with the Federal Government subsidizing it.
                Exactly the same dynamic. 1. A "need" that is universally believed to be prudent and safe to fill (housing and education were/are at the top of most people's list of safe investments) 2. The government and banks collude to create a loan system that guarantees the loan repayment (bankers are happy) so long as the loan is used to fill the politically popular need (housing or eduction). 3. As the need is filled the price rises inversely to the cost of the loan, thereby making the need UNFILLABLE WITHOUT THE LOANS. 4. The political feedback loop results in new programs to make the now-unaffordable housing/eduction more "affordable", only increasing demand and, therefore, prices.

                Eventually the "Wile E. Coyote Moment/Minsky Moment" arrives and the system collapses. "Everybody" says "nobody" could see it coming. Homebuyers and students are shamed for being so foolish to believe that trees grow to the sky. All of those who profited from the system --- university investors, teachers, politicians --- ride off into the sunset looking for the next "sure thing".

                Difference: Homeowners can discharge their debts, students cannot. They will be paying these debts for the rest of their lives. Even social security payments which cannot be levied upon by private creditors WILL BE LEVIED ON (yes, the law allows this) to repay these student loans.

                We are witnessing the sacrifice of our children to support the FIRE economy. Nobody seems to understand that under such a system all of the CBO and Fed projections of future GDP are completely worthless. Our children's wages are falling as they compete with workers in other countries that have no similar debt burdens. And we are institutionalizing low wages for younger workers. Just look at the "solutions" proposed for every insolvent pension scheme in the country: it is ALWAYS proposed that benefits be cut ONLY FOR NEW HIRES. Ergo, young people will have LESS disposable income than their parents did at the same age, yet all of our GDP and deficit projections assume steady growth in earnings for the young.

                This is madness.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

                  Originally posted by housingcrashsurvivor View Post
                  Here are the current monster.com job listings for Kaplan University (41,000 students online & on campuses):

                  KU Campus President administer and supervise all operations of the school, including exercise of budget controls, oversight of staffing, marketing, community involvement, and course development

                  Affiliate Marketing Manager Determine the demand for products and services

                  KU Admissions Advisor-Graduate works diligently to contact and enroll students in graduate degree and certificate programs.

                  KNEXT Project Manager planning, monitoring and controlling the execution of assigned projects.

                  KNEXT Learning Advisor responsible for enrolling learners in educational products and services, and advising customer purchases from outbound marketing efforts

                  Director of Marketing drive the growth of our online school

                  KU Marketing Manager help drive the growth of our online schools

                  Academic Advisor Coach students to a level of academic self-sufficiency as their degree program progresses by utilizing a pre-determined catalog of courses; Adhere to contact rate, registration rate, and other metrics; Monitor high rates of student matriculation, graduation, and overall retention

                  KU Librarian supporting delivery of library services

                  Marketing Analyst transform online higher education

                  KU Group LEAD Program provides the opportunity for high-potential leaders to gain a broad perspective of the functions that are critical to the organization

                  KNEXT Assessment Manager provide support to students who wish to earn college credit for their experiential learning.

                  Educational Researcher-Virtual works with the Center for Teaching and Learning on research projects that promote learning, teaching, and student success

                  Instructor positions advertised on Kaplan web site:

                  Finance Online Instructor
                  Graduate Accounting Online Instructor
                  Accounting Online Instructor
                  Composition Online Instructor, Legal Studies
                  Graduate Legal Studies Online Instructor
                  Science Online Instructor

                  Now here's a similar sized school, population-wise. University of South Florida serving about 45,000 students:

                  https://employment.usf.edu/applicant...esults_css.jsp

                  114 real-time instructor positions

                  https://employment.usf.edu/applicant...esults_css.jsp

                  26 staff positions (on a quick perusal, not a single one looks like a marketing job)

                  https://employment.usf.edu/applicant...esults_css.jsp

                  63 administration slots (looks like just one dedicated pick pocket for hire and very few other marketing positions)

                  Will the real university please stand up.

                  Who owns Kaplan?

                  That paragon of virtue The Washington Post.

                  Who owns 1.7 million shares of the Washington Post?

                  Berkshire Hathaway led by our homespun hero Warren Buffett.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

                    Originally posted by vinoveri View Post
                    Ah, yes, the recurring theme in all these scandals ... government enablement and backing.
                    I would go one step further and say the Gov actually makes the market for online for-profit edu.

                    Our government grants this entitlement because THE PEOPLE WANT IT.

                    Do you see these journalist placing one iota of responsibility on the student/borrower?
                    Of course you don't see individual responsibility as any kind of factor to be considered. The modern view is that everyone is a child, no matter how old. Back in a time when merit and responsibility mattered, it used to be that 20-somethings represented people in state legislatures and were promoted all the way to Brigadier General to lead entire armies into combat, meanwhile the teenagers provided the backbone and entrepreneurial spirit to most of the labor force. Nowadays, man-children and woman-children roam around, clueless. It's a self-fulfilling cycle--men and women are expected to mature later and later, so they do, so the expectation is raised each generation. The myth of "marrying too young" is pretty squarely set at an absurdly high age, for example. While I don't think marrying the instant you hit puberty is good, people should be allowed to grab hold of their own lives from time to time without being ostracized.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

                      Originally posted by Ghent12 View Post
                      Of course you don't see individual responsibility as any kind of factor to be considered. The modern view is that everyone is a child, no matter how old. Back in a time when merit and responsibility mattered, it used to be that 20-somethings represented people in state legislatures and were promoted all the way to Brigadier General to lead entire armies into combat, meanwhile the teenagers provided the backbone and entrepreneurial spirit to most of the labor force. Nowadays, man-children and woman-children roam around, clueless. It's a self-fulfilling cycle--men and women are expected to mature later and later, so they do, so the expectation is raised each generation. The myth of "marrying too young" is pretty squarely set at an absurdly high age, for example. While I don't think marrying the instant you hit puberty is good, people should be allowed to grab hold of their own lives from time to time without being ostracized.
                      Let me get this straight. Here are young people--most of them, I would suspect, from poorer family backgrounds--doing exactly what they've been encouraged to do by the authorities throughout their lives, that is, to get more education. Then they are then ripped off by for-profit universities and their powerful backers--such as the Washington Post and Warren Buffett and the federal government. And you want to blame the students? Are you nuts?

                      How were the students to know that the universities were a scam? You seem desperate to blame the victims. Why not put the responsibility where it lies, on some of the most powerful people and corporations in our society? Or are you afraid to blame the powerful?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

                        Originally posted by Dave Stratman View Post
                        Let me get this straight. Here are young people--most of them, I would suspect, from poorer family backgrounds--doing exactly what they've been encouraged to do by the authorities throughout their lives, that is, to get more education. Then they are then ripped off by for-profit universities and their powerful backers--such as the Washington Post and Warren Buffett and the federal government. And you want to blame the students? Are you nuts?

                        How were the students to know that the universities were a scam? You seem desperate to blame the victims. Why not put the responsibility where it lies, on some of the most powerful people and corporations in our society? Or are you afraid to blame the powerful?
                        Whoa, slow your roll Dave Stratman. I was making social commentary, not assigning blame. When assigning blame, I would almost equally assign it amongst those involved--the University, the students, and in many cases the parents of the students. Should the students be blamed entirely? Of course not! But if you think they are completely without blame in this, then you are furthering the puerility of society in general.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

                          The NYTimes blog “Does College Make You Smarter?” was deluged by reader comments, many addressing gouging by both for-profit and traditional universities.

                          “Products of Rote Learning” garnered the most comments...

                          http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...-rote-learning

                          After reading the highlights, I'd say don't blame the students. Times have changed. When I dropped out of college it was easy to hit the road, find adventure and employment. Now, I know underemployed math majors who would have been snapped up in normal economic times. They are dog groomers and bike shops attendants.

                          “20 years of schoolin' and they put you on the day shift...
                          join the army if you fail..
                          look out kids they keep it all hid.”


                          pasted from the comment section...off topic, but

                          “Due to the fact my mother suffered from severe mental illness I had to forgo college at the time in 1974..After taking guardianship of my mother, I continued to to read and write, and ended up starting my own company which I grew into a multimillion dollar company earning me six figures for over twenty years until I sold it in 2001 for a handsome profit. Taking those profits and seeing the housing bubble coming I sold my home invested in gold when it was 297 per oz.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

                            Originally posted by Ghent12 View Post
                            Whoa, slow your roll Dave Stratman. I was making social commentary, not assigning blame. When assigning blame, I would almost equally assign it amongst those involved--the University, the students, and in many cases the parents of the students. Should the students be blamed entirely? Of course not! But if you think they are completely without blame in this, then you are furthering the puerility of society in general.
                            That's pretty much how I see it too. Plenty of blame to go around on all sides. I'm not into the victim game either. There used to be a time young people were taught to do their due diligence and check out every school they considered. Now we think just because we pay for something that it has real value. On the other hand how many career advisors are pushing people with low SAT scores to still go to college? Tech skill and other non-college career routes are downplayed. The education for profit organizations are very good at marketing their image to older working Americans who are often too lazy to bother checking out their story. My neighbor enrolled in a MBA program and only after a year did he bother to find out it( U of Phoenix) would NOT help his career at the cellular company he worked. DUH.

                            I have no doubt that the EZ availability of this Gubment money are the reason most of these "schools" exist. In a shrinking private sector economy, companies will look to the guys who can print money for a solution.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: More FIRE tales: for profit "universities"

                              iTulipers are a savvy lot. We're they quite as savvy at 20? 22? Methinks not. Remember, boyz, when your priorities were a bit different than today. Now we dream of precious metal and high returns. Then ....



                              Gretchen, I believe, was her name ....

                              We were easy meat for FIRE

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