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  • Debt vs Deficit

    Mystery solved: the difference between the deficit and the increase in national debt

    For some time, bloggers have been noticing that the national debt is increasing a lot faster than the budget deficit would suggest. ZeroHedge in September:
    [O]ver the past 47 months, or almost 4 full fiscal years, the US has accumulated a $3.3 trillion deficit, while over the same period, total Federal debt increased by $4.9 trillion, from $8.6 trillion to $13.4 trillion.
    The ex-Wall Street types at ZeroHedge chewed on this but couldn't come up with a good explanation. Some called it crooked accounting, but couldn't pinpoint the fraud. Tthe Liberator Today noticed the same thing and didn't have an answer. Then I threw the question over to the academics at Econbrowser:
    If it's such a simple accounting identity, would you please reconcile the $1.9 trillion and $1.65 trillion debt increases in FY 09 and FY 10 with the alleged deficits of $1.4 trillion and $1.3 trillion for the same fiscal years?


    And before you answer that it's the Social Security Trust Fund, intragovernmental holdings increased by just $320 billion over the two years.


    So where's the other $530 billion?
    None of the academics among the bloggers and commenters at Econbrowser could answer the question, until Menzie Chinn found an expert who could.

    I and many others suspected the answer was in some off-budget shenanigans like Fannie/Freddie, GMAC, etc. It turns out we were right in general but missed the biggest specific off-budget item: student loans. In table S-14 of this FY2011 OMB Mid-Session Review shown to me by Menzie, you'll see that the financial asset "Direct loan acccounts" increased from $489 billion to $689 billion. And the prior Mid-Session Review (table S-15) shows that account at $196 billion at the end of FY08. So an increase in student loans accounted for $393 493 billion of the missing money over the two years.

    There's also an increase of $100 billion in "Government-sponsored enterprise preferred stock" (Because Fannie and Freddie are assets to the Treasury, not liabilities, right! How are those preferred dividends working out for you, Timmy?). Together with the student loans and the change in intra-governmental holdings, that explains the vast majority of the difference between the reported two-year deficit and the actual increase in debt.

    From an economic perspective, Denninger is right when he argues that we should rely on the increase in debt rather than the reported deficit. The $100 billion "asset" in money-losing black holes Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is an outright fraud. And the almost $400 500 billion in student loans is direct Keynesian stimulus: it gets spent at the colleges immediately, where it goes to pay faculty and staff salaries as well as facility construction and maintenance. Never mind that much of it will never be paid back to the Treasury due to default, forgiveness, or death.

    Using the actual debt numbers rather than the massaged "deficit" numbers, it looks like we're heading into our third consecutive year of deficits well over 10% of GDP.

    http://www.wcvarones.com/2011/01/mys...e-between.html

  • #2
    Re: Debt vs Deficit

    Originally posted by don View Post
    From an economic perspective, Denninger is right when he argues that we should rely on the increase in debt rather than the reported deficit. The $100 billion "asset" in money-losing black holes Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is an outright fraud. And the almost $400 500 billion in student loans is direct Keynesian stimulus: it gets spent at the colleges immediately, where it goes to pay faculty and staff salaries as well as facility construction and maintenance. Never mind that much of it will never be paid back to the Treasury due to default, forgiveness, or death.

    Using the actual debt numbers rather than the massaged "deficit" numbers, it looks like we're heading into our third consecutive year of deficits well over 10% of GDP.

    http://www.wcvarones.com/2011/01/mys...e-between.html
    This looks more like an "accounting" bailout, i.e., a transfer of the debt owed onto the public ledger (notwithstanding the additional loans each year).
    The question is why did they see the need to account for it as part of the debt ...
    If you are going to default, better to get all debts and liabilities on the balance sheet

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Debt vs Deficit

      For whatever it's worth, the Treasury Department estimates that debt issuance will drop back to a level equal to the deficit for the next two budget years (see p. 10 of the attached Treasury report - can't figure out how to extract one page from a 93 page PDF, unfortunately).

      http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...dc-2010-q4.pdf

      Of course, debt issuance could remain higher than the deficit if the government starts a whole new "lending" program (such as originating mortgages or loans to connected businesses)... but then they would never do that...

      At least so far, student loan debt has been much harder to escape than mortgage or credit card debt. We'll see if it stays that way as the number of unemployed college graduates (and dropouts) continues to rise...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Debt vs Deficit

        Originally posted by don View Post
        And the prior Mid-Session Review (table S-15) shows that account at $196 billion at the end of FY08. So an increase in student loans accounted for $393 493 billion of the missing money over the two years.
        Roughly 2.6 million new students enter colleges every year. 493B/5.2M = $94,000 for every student entering the system?! I doubt it.
        Doesn't add up.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Debt vs Deficit

          Originally posted by we_are_toast
          Roughly 2.6 million new students enter colleges every year. 493B/5.2M = $94,000 for every student entering the system?! I doubt it.
          Doesn't add up.
          You're forgetting the interest 'earned' on the ones already outstanding.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Debt vs Deficit

            Originally posted by c1ue View Post
            You're forgetting the interest 'earned' on the ones already outstanding.

            I wouldn't be surprised if a major chunk of the money is from loan consolidations of FIRE-sponsored loans into government loans.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Debt vs Deficit

              As long as were at, can someone explain what the interest on the debt means?

              I have a figure from u.s. national debt clock that the interest on the debt is roughly 203B.
              Treasury debt is 14.1T that gives and inerest rate of around 1.45%. That can't be right, can it?
              I assume some interest is not being counted. SS trust fund interest?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Debt vs Deficit

                Originally posted by charliebrown View Post
                As long as were at, can someone explain what the interest on the debt means?

                I have a figure from u.s. national debt clock that the interest on the debt is roughly 203B.
                Treasury debt is 14.1T that gives and inerest rate of around 1.45%. That can't be right, can it?
                I assume some interest is not being counted. SS trust fund interest?
                That must be a 'net interest' figure. Some of the debt is held by the Federal Reserve, which refunds interest on the debt back to the Treasury (less the cost of running the Fed). I think you're right about interest between intragovernmental accounts not being part of that total. Here is Treasury's tally including interest on government account series bonds. In FY10, the total was over $400B.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Debt vs Deficit

                  Thanks Ash for the link

                  I have heard that if interest on the debt moves to the 10% - 12% range, default will occur.

                  With the numbers from the web site, we are very close to 3% GDP to service the debt.
                  So we have default at 42T of debt, or Interest rates at 10% Whichever comes first

                  Comment

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