Mega Business Idea!

[dcarrigg]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

Shiny,

What I find interesting is that with healthcare costs much lower than yours the average lifespan in Spain (80 years) is higher than in USA (78 years), if my data are correct.

I am sure that in Spain we have less high technology (and high price) diagnosis than you in the USA, but it doesn't seem to be a factor in life expectancy. Perhaps people are being duped behind the high-tech facade?

On the subject of lawsuits, it is not the custom here. Sometimes it happens but not very often. I am sure that having less lawsuits keeps the costs controlled. I find it ironic that a supposed right, such as that of suing your doctor, actually works against the citizen (or consumer if you will) which of course will pay the bills.

Alvaro Spain:

We had, in 2003 I believe, an 80 to 1 per capita ratio of MRI machines to Germany. 79 more machines in the US for every American than there was in Germany at a cost between $600-$3,500 per run (not counting insurance overhead). High-tech facade indeed. Actually, it's lifestyle. Without so many MRI runs, perhaps the life expectancy would go down by 6 months or a year. Without the drive-thru it would probably increase by more than this.

[llanlad2]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

Shiny,

What I find interesting is that with healthcare costs much lower than yours the average lifespan in Spain (80 years) is higher than in USA (78 years), if my data are correct.

I am sure that in Spain we have less high technology (and high price) diagnosis than you in the USA, but it doesn't seem to be a factor in life expectancy. Perhaps people are being duped behind the high-tech facade?

Diet is probably why spain has higher life expectancy.

Percentage of population with BMI (body mass index) of 30 or higher.

# 1	United States:	30.6%
# 2	Mexico:	24.2%
# 3	United Kingdom:	23%
# 4	Slovakia:	22.4%
# 5	Greece:	21.9%
# 6	Australia:	21.7%
# 7	New Zealand:	20.9%
# 8	Hungary:	18.8%
# 9	Luxembourg:	18.4%
# 10	Czech Republic:	14.8%
# 11	Canada:	14.3%
# 12	Spain:	13.1%
# 13	Ireland:	13%
# 14	Germany:	12.9%
= 15	Portugal:	12.8%
= 15	Finland:	12.8%
# 17	Iceland:	12.4%
# 18	Turkey:	12%
# 19	Belgium:	11.7%
# 20	Netherlands:	10%

[flintlock]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

Sorry, not sure if I understand what you are asking T n B. When I had my insurance as a self-employed 46 year old with family, estimates we got ran around $1100 month with a $2500 deductible if I recall correctly. So that is what I am vouching for, that the rates really are that high. Toast has the $175 premium I believe. We ended up with a $600 month $10k deductible that only paid 70% after the deductible was met. Luckily my wife got a teaching job last year and we now pay around $250 month but it is my understanding the state picks up 75% of the premium. Very low deductible as well. I think that $250 includes dental and vision but not 100% sure.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

Sorry, not sure if I understand what you are asking T n B. When I had my insurance as a self-employed 46 year old with family, estimates we got ran around $1100 month with a $2500 deductible if I recall correctly. So that is what I am vouching for, that the rates really are that high. Toast has the $175 premium I believe. We ended up with a $600 month $10k deductible that only paid 70% after the deductible was met. Luckily my wife got a teaching job last year and we now pay around $250 month but it is my understanding the state picks up 75% of the premium. Very low deductible as well. I think that $250 includes dental and vision but not 100% sure.

Thanks flintlock, for the clarity.

[rjwjr]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

American Russian brides!
I had this business idea, do you recall the “Mail order bride” thing that was all the rage back say 10 years ago?....Some poor impoverished nice looking young ish female would “offer” herself for marriage to escape a collapsed USSR or some 3^rd World shit hole?

Well, I was thinking….with 43 million Americans on food stamps or working away at Walmart perhaps its time to dust off this business plan. Sort of “Escape from America” sort of thing.

So, we reach out to nice, young ish fit females whom would like a fresh start in another country. Could Be new Zealand or Oz, might be Europe or even Blighty……one with a good welfare state, free healthcare etc…..You get the picture.

Good idea?

Mike

Mike,

As the "Master of British Brevity", I suggest you stay loyal to your moniker. That's the nicest comment I can muster after another in your growing list of anti-USA opinions and comments.

[Jeff]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

rjwjr

When exactly did financial data become "anti" anything? What am I missing?

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

Shiny,

What I find interesting is that with healthcare costs much lower than yours the average lifespan in Spain (80 years) is higher than in USA (78 years), if my data are correct.

I am sure that in Spain we have less high technology (and high price) diagnosis than you in the USA, but it doesn't seem to be a factor in life expectancy. Perhaps people are being duped behind the high-tech facade?

On the subject of lawsuits, it is not the custom here. Sometimes it happens but not very often. I am sure that having less lawsuits keeps the costs controlled. I find it ironic that a supposed right, such as that of suing your doctor, actually works against the citizen (or consumer if you will) which of course will pay the bills.

It's simply not comparable. Totally different people. Franco also greatly delayed the rise of liberalism in your nation, along with all its various social pathologies.

[Alvaro Spain]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

It's simply not comparable. Totally different people. Franco also greatly delayed the rise of liberalism in your nation, along with all its various social pathologies.

Thanks a lot for your comment. It offers me a new perspective. I am sure that you believe that we are totally different people. I would have thought otherwise but I cannot say that you are wrong. Perhaps we are that different.

[vinoveri]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

rjwjr

When exactly did financial data become "anti" anything? What am I missing?

You might be interested in this, regarding public opinion of the Wikileaks recent release. Note the difference in the public sentiment depending on the country (which came as a rather unpleasant surprise to me as an american):




Public opinion

• United States: According to a telephone survey of 1,029 US residents age 18 and older, conducted by the Marist Institute for Public Opinion in December 2010, 70% of American respondents – particularly Republicans and older people – think the leaks are doing more harm than good by allowing enemies of the United States government to see confidential and secret information about U.S. foreign policy. Approximately 22% – especially young liberals – think the leaks are doing more good than harm by making the U.S. government more transparent and accountable. A majority of 59% also want to see the people behind WikiLeaks prosecuted, while 31% said the publication of secrets is protected under the First Amendment guarantee of a free press.^[319]

• Germany: According to a telephone survey of 1,004 German residents age 18 and older, which was conducted end of November for the German public broadcaster ARD, a majority of 53% disapprove of WikiLeaks, while 43% are generally in favour of the platform. Asked about the specific release of US diplomatic cables, almost two Thirds (65%) believe that these documents should not be published, compared to 31% that agree that they are being released to the public.^[320]

• United Kingdom: A CNN poll of 2,010 British adults conducted in December 2010 revealed that more people agree than disagree that WikiLeaks was right to release the cables, by 42% to 33%. The remaining 25% did not have a position. According to the same poll 41% of Britons believe that Assange should not be prosecuted for releasing the secret diplomatic cables, while 30% do want him prosecuted. Almost half of the respondents (44%) also believe that the sex charges against Assange are "an excuse" to keep him in custody so that the U.S. government can prosecute him for releasing secret diplomatic cables, while only 13% disagree. Nevertheless almost half of Britons stated that their government should send Assange to Sweden for questioning. Older people were significantly more likely to oppose WikiLeaks. While 42% of persons 65 and older say Assange should be prosecuted for releasing the secret diplomatic cables, this view is only held by 21% of those between 25 and 34.^[321]

• Australia: A UMR Research December 2010 poll showed that the majority of Australians are against the official government position on WikiLeaks. The findings which were done on 1,000 individuals show 59% support WikiLeaks' action in making the cables public and 25% oppose it. This was asked a few weeks after the initial release of the cables. The poll also looked at issues in relation to Julian Assange, with the results showing a positive opinion on him.^[322]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks

[DToM67]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

Mike,

As the "Master of British Brevity", I suggest you stay loyal to your moniker. That's the nicest comment I can muster after another in your growing list of anti-USA opinions and comments.

Anti-USA? anti-American?

Yeah right!... perhaps if/when America & Americans once again begin behaving "American".

I was born in the USA, and have always proud to be American... But these days our behaviour places us behind much of the (now more) civilized (than us) World!

Help make a change, or grow a thicker skin.

[rjwjr]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

Anti-USA? anti-American?

Yeah right!... perhaps if/when America & Americans once again begin behaving "American".

I was born in the USA, and have always proud to be American... But these days our behaviour places us behind much of the (now more) civilized (than us) World!

Help make a change, or grow a thicker skin.

DToM67,

My skin is plenty thick, thank you. I'm sorry I don't share the embarassment and guilt that you apparently feel for the behavior and activities of a handful of individuals currently in positions of power. I would like to see those individuals brought to trial, and if guilty of breaking any of our laws, be forced to pay for their actions. That being said, I haven't done anything (to Mike or in general) to create anti-American sentiment (which Mike has posted on numerous occasions), nor I assume have you, nor has the vast majority of the American people. Yes, I wish our elected officials and our financial elite were a better representation of us Americans as a people, but until we work to get that problem rectified, I don't intend to remain quiet whenever and wherever I see America bashing. Those currently in power have not ruined the dream for me.

[c1ue]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

How is that possible? What has happened to the old supply-demand curve? If doctors charge so much there and make so much money lots of people should be becoming doctors lowering the prices charged, shouldn't it be so? Are there quotas on the number of doctors allowed in the USA?

Alvaro,

There are a lot of reasons why health care is so much more expensive in the US than in any other 1st or 2nd world country.

I've posted a number of articles looking into this, but they boil down to:

1) 2 health insurance company employees per doctor in the US. Bureaucracy plus for profit motive. I'm fairly sure this ratio isn't true for public health care employees vs. doctors in other nations and the profit motive is largely absent.

2) Impact of FIRE and bureaucratic business practices on capital costs: I had an operation in Australia, an overnight stay cost AU$980 (US$900 at the time). A 4 hour OR visit (from entry of hospital to my entering a taxi cab to leave) cost $25000 (OR and anesthesiology only, another $6000 for other things like doctor's time).

The difference is that a hospital is a for profit entity in the US involving FIRE bankster loans and what not; in Australia and in many other nations, a hospital is a public good like a dam or a road.

3) A lack of a true non-profit alternative provider for health care. In Spain, as you note, you can go with the free public option and likely have to wait. Or alternatively you can get better service by paying, but always the free option is available.

In the US, you have no choice of a free option and it is extremely difficult to compare prices for anything in the least bit complex.

4) Lifetime contributions/portability: in the US, health care is provided primarily through employers, and is in turn subsidized both via US tax code and by the employer as a benefit.

But this means if you aren't employed, you get neither any tax code benefit nor other subsidies. And thus if you're too young to work, you must pay expensive insurance. If you're too old to work, but aren't 65, equally expensive health insurance. After 65 there is Medicare but that program is showing strain.

But more importantly if you lose your job, all the money you paid for health insurance in the past is lost. There is no lifetime benefit for any dollar paid, only benefit so long as you are on a specific plan. This is not true for national health insurance schemes.

There are plenty more reasons, but I see these as the top level.

[lektrode]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

In the US, for a plan to cover you, your wife, and the children, you would pay at least $1,200 a month, perhaps as much as $2,000 a month.
You would have to pay about $1,000 each year out of your own pocket for EACH PERSON before the insurance benefits will pay a dime.

here in HNL, with kaiser-permenente, here in the "only state with 'everybody' covered" a single/non-group is paying 402/mo + 30copay (up20% fr last yr and up100% from the yearb4) for visits/scripts, 400/day for hospital'n (up from 250/day lastyr) 50% coverage on lab/imaging (a ct scan = 1500 w copay vs 3bux to use parking garage?), with a suplment'l max of 4000/year (up 33% from last)

but i assume that "none of this is inflationary" and attributable directly to them getting their needle as deep into us as they can before all the "health care reforms" take effect?

and can ya just imagine what it'll be like when 20 or 30 MILLION more freeloaders pile into the 'system' ?

"if ya think healthcare is expensive now, just wait'll its FREE"

[lektrode]

med ins > was Re: Mega Business Idea!

as usual, mr c1ue, you bring an awesome clarity to anything being discussed...

There are a lot of reasons why health care is so much more expensive in the US than in any other 1st or 2nd world country.
....
.....

2) Impact of FIRE and bureaucratic business practices on capital costs: I had an operation in Australia, an overnight stay cost AU$980 (US$900 at the time). A 4 hour OR visit (from entry of hospital to my entering a taxi cab to leave) cost $25000 (OR and anesthesiology only, another $6000 for other things like doctor's time).

i got into an incident involving bus-wrastlin on my bicycle a few years back; the total elapsed time from the moment of impact, thru the ER, checkout and back to whence i came was a total of 2:15 = over 15grand in charges.... but i guess i was 'just lucky' and didnt seem to have any lasting effects (well... other than an occasional touch of Tourette Syndrome, but that i attrib mostly to working on boats ;)

The difference is that a hospital is a for profit entity in the US involving FIRE bankster loans and what not; in Australia and in many other nations, a hospital is a public good like a dam or a road.

3) A lack of a true non-profit alternative provider for health care.
....

i used to think kaiser-permenente was a good model for the way forward, but methinks they've been mandated-into-HMO-hell and forced by the political class to provide all sorts of services that i dont believe should be "insurable" events, like routine maternity, drug/alc/addiction-treatment, sex-change/therapy, impotence/viagra, stress-induced/shrink services yada yada yada, ad nauseum-infinitum vs MEDICAL CARE DELIVERY

couple that with the state's level of union-mandated benefits, that ends up shunting a huge swath of otherwise un-insurables onto the plan at the expense of much higher rates paid by us not-union/state employees who are stuck with much lower levels of coverage at higher rates?

i would agree that the existing system in The US = twisted/broken beyond repair by anything that the .gov has done to date even _before_ the nightmare known as obamacare even hits the ratebase!

In the US, you have no choice of a free option and it is extremely difficult to compare prices for anything in the least bit complex.

i'm of the opionion that what we need is essentially a 6th branch of the armed services that would be called "The Medical Corps" as its become a 'national security' level issue (or soon will become as the (us) boomers start breakin down and all come looking for large amounts of healthcare all at same time) - envision something along the lines of: wanna be a doctor/nurse? dont have 150grand to spend on med school? join the med corps!, get an education and while you study, you work/on-the-job-training providing services to your fellow americans and after yer 4-6-8years of schooling, you owe uncle sam the same number of years of service in exchange (for not having to repay the FIREmen hundreds of thousands of debt for school)

now _that_ would be a stimulus of hope for change that we can believe in!

4) Lifetime contributions/portability: in the US, health care is provided primarily through employers, and is in turn subsidized both via US tax code and by the employer as a benefit.

But this means if you aren't employed, you get neither any tax code benefit nor other subsidies. ....

it also means that if one is self-employed and paying for medical insurance, one is paying twice-to-10times as much as an employee of state/county/fed gov is and then paying _again_ in taxes while they get _much_ better coverage....

and as much as i'd disagree that obamacare is the answer, its becoming painfully clear that the existing system is failing miserably and the DC aristocracy had better do something about it perty quick, or a whole bunch of us will be 'joining the teaparty' (read: _anybody_ but the dems or pubs) next time around...

[lektrode]

Re: Mega Business Idea!

DToM67,

My skin is plenty thick, thank you. I'm sorry I don't share the embarassment and guilt that you apparently feel for the behavior and activities of a handful of individuals currently in positions of power. I would like to see those individuals brought to trial, and if guilty of breaking any of our laws, be forced to pay for their actions. That being said, I haven't done anything (to Mike or in general) to create anti-American sentiment (which Mike has posted on numerous occasions), nor I assume have you, nor has the vast majority of the American people. Yes, I wish our elected officials and our financial elite were a better representation of us Americans as a people, but until we work to get that problem rectified, I don't intend to remain quiet whenever and wherever I see America bashing. Those currently in power have not ruined the dream for me.

RJ... while i concur with your position here, eye happened to watch him/assange on 60minutes last night and he does make some pretty good points - i disagree with his tactics tho - IMHO, maybe if he had posted his own country(?) sweden's diplomatic secrets first and wasnt on the lamb from rape charges, (with the media turning this question into a 'tail-waggin-the-dog' scene) he'd have a bit more 'moral righteousness' to stand on... and by outing The US's 'dirt' the way he/they did, make me as an American feel like we are being attacked by just another leftist/anarchist - and where do we/the .gov draw the line?

imagine for a second that wikileaks started publishing corporate/trade secrets on a wider scale - where it starts to cost people their jobs/investments/lives - how long do you suppose he'd have to live?

methinks he and the rest of them do believe they are 'fighting the good fight' but i think most Americans (not just those willing to answer such a poll) will/do recoil at the idea that we have loose-cannons spouting forth info that can lead to deadly consequences, esp for our .mil guys who are over there on the front lines.

but... he does have _some_ good side to him:

Julian Assange Says He Likes to Make Banks ‘Squirm’


http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/01/3...-banks-squirm/

(and the [COMMENTS] on here are just gettin good.... ;)

By Shira Ovide

Bloomberg News

WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange

Last night, a “60 Minutes” interview with Julian Assange, the man behind WikiLeaks, tackled the question of whether the anti-secrecy organization is turning its Klieg light to Wall Street.
Assange was asked about the speculation that WikiLeaks has a cache of internal Bank of America documents.
“I won’t make any comment in relation to that upcoming publication,” Assange said.
There would be a “process of elimination” if we “denied some [banks] and admitted others,” he said. “I think it’s great to have all these banks squirming thinking maybe it’s them,” Assange said.
Deal Journal readers will remember that shares of Bank of America suffered in late November amid speculation WikiLeaks was planning to dump out a trove of embarrassing internal documents from the megabank. The speculation was fanned by a Forbes interview last fall, when Assange floated the idea of WikiLeaks releasing tens of thousands of documents about a major American bank. He said at the time that the “megaleak” would come in early 2011.
Assange didn’t name the bank in the Forbes interview, but The Wall Street Journal reported that BofA had been trying to determine for more than a year whether any documents had been leaked from inside the bank. In an October 2009 piece in Computerworld, Assange had claimed to have a hard drive of a BofA executive.
(Click HERE to watch the second half of the “60 Minutes” interview. The discussion about a possible banks leak comes about 11 minutes into the interview.)
More In WikiLeaks

• The Onion Takes on BofA WikiLeaks: Ken Lewis Spikes Branch Lollipops
• Wall Street Can Start Panicking About WikiLeaks Now

-------- so maybe he will end up being a not-so-bad kinda guy afterall, eh?