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Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

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  • Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

    Everyday more Americans realize they will never be able to retire. Their retirement plans transformed into dying in their traces .... allowing, I suppose, this type of article to bob to the surface, like a U-Boat getting the all-clear to return to base to be scrapped, its mission accomplished.


    What would you do if your financial planner prescribed the following advice? Save and invest diligently for 30 years, then cross your fingers and pray your investments will double over the last decade before you retire.

    You might as well go to Las Vegas.

    Yet that’s exactly what many professionals and fancy financial calculators have been telling consumers for years, argues Michael Kitces, director of research at the Pinnacle Advisory Group in Columbia, Md., who recently illustrated this notion in his blog, Nerd’s Eye View.

    The advice is never delivered in those exact words, of course. Instead, this is the more familiar refrain: save a healthy slice of your salary from the start of your career, invest it in a diversified portfolio and then you should be able to retire with relative ease.

    The problem is that even if you do everything right and save at a respectable rate, you’re still relying on the market to push you to the finish line in the last decade before retirement. Why? Reaching your goal is highly dependent on the power of compounding — or the snowball effect, where your pile of money grows at a faster clip as more interest (or investment growth) grows on top of more interest. In fact, you’re actually counting on your savings, in real dollars and cents, to double during that home stretch.

    But if you’re dealt a bad set of returns during an extended period of time just before you retire or shortly thereafter, your plan could be thrown wildly off track. Many baby boomers know the feeling all too well, given the stock market’s weak showing during the last decade.

    “The way the math really works out is unbelievably dependent on the final few years,” Mr. Kitces said. “I just don’t think we’ve really acknowledged just what a leap the very last part really is.”






    Consider the numbers for a 26-year-old who earns $40,000 annually, with a long-term savings target of $1 million. To get there, she’s told to save 8 percent of her salary each year over her 40-year career. (We assumed an annual investment return of 7 percent, and 3 percent annual salary growth, to keep pace with inflation). Yet after 31 years of diligent savings, her portfolio is worth just slightly more than $483,000.

    To clear the $1 million mark, her portfolio essentially must double in the nine years before she retires, and the market must cooperate (unless she finds a way to travel back in time and significantly increase her savings).

    Should the markets misbehave, however, delivering a mere 2 percent return over the 10 years before retirement (not all that hard to imagine, considering the return of a portfolio split between stock and bonds over the last decade), she falls short by about a third. Her portfolio would be worth only about $640,000. The chart accompanying this column illustrates this.

    You can quibble with our assumptions in this example. But a similar pattern emerges regardless of your financial targets and projected returns, Mr. Kitces says. So if your target is to save $500,000 or $2 million, and if you assume a 6 percent return or a higher 10 percent, you’re still relying on your investments to roughly double in the final years before retirement.

    Of course, an extended period of dismal returns during any point in your career can inflict damage. But the homestretch before retirement is often the most anxiety-inducing because workers have neither the time nor the financial capacity to recover before they begin taking withdrawals. "Getting the bad 2 percent decade in the earlier years has far less impact because there are fewer contributions already invested,” Mr. Kitces said. “Conversely, when the bad returns come in the final 10 years, no reasonable amount of savings will make up the shortfall."

    So what’s an investor to do about all of this, especially as one of the other pillars of retirement savings — pensions — disappears? And who’s to say how Social Security may change by the time that 26-year-old retires? Most of the solutions, if you can call them that, fall into the “easier said than done” category. If you can’t handle the uncertainty of missing your financial targets, you can try to save more and create a less volatile portfolio, Mr. Kitces says, which may also provide a firmer retirement date.

    And naturally, the earlier you start saving, the sooner you’re likely to reach the critical mass you’ll need for compounding to accelerate (assuming the markets provide some lift in the first half of your career). But you will still need to save more than many retirement calculators suggest, since they’re likely to recommend saving a lower amount when you have such a long time horizon. Then you can end up in the same predicament, where you are heavily leaning on market returns in the years before retirement.

    “What the wise person does is save a large amount of money when they are young,” said William Bernstein, author of “The Investor’s Manifesto: Preparing for Prosperity, Armageddon and Everything in Between” and other investing books. “And if they can do that, when they are older, they can cut back on their equity allocation. When you’ve won the game, you stop playing the game.”

    But that can be hard to accomplish when you have other needs competing for those dollars, whether it’s a down payment for a house, a 529 college savings plan or starting a business. Or perhaps you’re already living on less because you’re unemployed (or underemployed) or because health insurance consumes a significant chunk of your income.

    “It’s the cruel irony of retirement planning that those people who most need the markets’ help have the least financial capacity to take the risk,” said Milo Benningfield, a financial planner in San Francisco. “Meanwhile, the people who can afford the risk are the ones who least need to take it.”

    A more prudent course of action is a flexible one that acknowledges the many possibilities and accounts for ideal and less-than-ideal spending amounts.

    Try using different assumptions for the years leading up to retirement, suggests Scott Hanson, a financial planner at Hanson McClain in Sacramento. If you want to retire in 25 years, for instance, you might use a return assumption of 8 percent for the first 15 years of savings, then reduce that rate to 6 percent or less in the final decade, he says.

    “Here’s the catch: most folks aren’t saving enough using standard growth assumptions,” he said. “If they begin to use lower growth assumptions in order to ensure their retirement, they’ll fall further behind and become even more discouraged.”

    But simply going through these exercises may help the reality sink in. At the very least, it will show how imprecise even the most sophisticated projections may be.

    “The actual date I get to check out with my target sum to retirement is much more uncertain than we give it credit to be,” Mr. Kitces said. “It’s more like 40 years, plus or minus five to 10 years. If you want more certainty, you can have it, but you have to save more and take less risk.”



    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/yo...l?ref=business

  • #2
    Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

    This is interesting to me (the math is at a level I can comprehend). My husband and I made the mistake of setting up Roth IRA's too late in our lives. He was 56 and I was 47. We couldn't put in very much at all, or so we thought. After three years we had only managed to save about $3,500. But our American Funds advisor kept spouting the "buy and hold" line, showing us the graph of how their funds went up even during the Great Depression. I could see we weren't going to have spit for retirement at the rate things were going.

    We closed the IRS's in August of 2008, withdrawing $5.00 more than what we had put in. Also that month we cashed in my husband's measly New Mexico teacher pension, taking the tax hit. This is just about the only time I timed something right. Good thing, too, since his pension was partially invested in Bernie Madoff's fund.

    We put the money into food and commodities, preparing for a long rainy day. Since then we've been living on a tight budget, putting every penny we can scrape together into our preps, and learning that we can save more than we ever thought possible. I'm not sure what to invest in when the commodities approach their bubble peak and it's time to sell.

    What do people invest in when they're in their 60's or 70's?

    Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

      I thought this is why financial planners use Monte Carlo simulations like Financial Engines that attempt to model fluctuating rates of return, and provide some 'confidence intervals' for future portfolio value. Granted, the model is only as good as the assumptions, and this type of thing can't be used to predict when a major market crash will occur. But short of a crystal ball, it's a good quantitative way to deal with the problem of depending upon an "average" rate of growth.

      The real problem, I think, is more along the lines of what that Scott Hanson guy says at the end of the article -- most people aren't (able) to save at a rate sufficient to support themselves in retirement even under the simple model, and assuming bubble decade rates of growth. I bet more people could do it if they started early, and accepted a lower material standard of living than that to which they are accustomed. But to be honest, in an efficient labor market, those categories of labor for which the supply is large aren't compensated enough in excess of immediate living expenses to save for decades of retirement. For much of the population, retiring at ease out of one's saved earnings is not a natural phenomenon in an efficient market economy. One must accept either a substantial mispricing of labor (due to collective bargaining, for instance) to provide unskilled workers with enough margin over subsistence to save, subsidize retirement through redistributive taxation (between economic classes and generations), or accept that a large fraction of the population will be improverished in old age.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

        Originally posted by ASH
        I thought this is why financial planners use Monte Carlo simulations like Financial Engines that attempt to model fluctuating rates of return, and provide some 'confidence intervals' for future portfolio value.
        The problem, of course, is predicting 40 years of events is an impossible task.

        Someone who started working in the 1950s, for example, would not be able to predict the US going off the gold standard in 1971 - and all the subsequent asset inflation.

        Similarly someone who started working in the 1990s would not have been able to predict the upcoming US 100% devaluation.

        Even a case like a Detroit auto worker starting work in the mid-70s in Detroit: clearly there were signs of secular decline, but I'm betting the typical new auto worker isn't exactly spending a lot of time reading tea leaves. The ones already working have too much to lose to risk going cold turkey.

        Arguably without a clear and consistent government policy, any and all prediction of future returns in impossible. And equally so clear and consistent government policy can only be detected retroactively.

        Originally posted by ASH
        The real problem, I think, is more along the lines of what that Scott Hanson guy says at the end of the article -- most people aren't (able) to save at a rate sufficient to support themselves in retirement even under the simple model, and assuming bubble decade rates of growth. I bet more people could do it if they started early, and accepted a lower material standard of living than that to which they are accustomed. But to be honest, in an efficient labor market, those categories of labor for which the supply is large aren't compensated enough in excess of immediate living expenses to save for decades of retirement. For much of the population, retiring at ease out of one's saved earnings is not a natural phenomenon in an efficient market economy. One must accept either a substantial mispricing of labor (due to collective bargaining, for instance) to provide unskilled workers with enough margin over subsistence to save, subsidize retirement through redistributive taxation (between economic classes and generations), or accept that a large fraction of the population will be improverished in old age.
        In a straight line sense, this is correct.

        But I'd note several caveats:

        1) Secular environment improvement. The money needed to maintain a similar lifestyle to earlier periods should be going down due to progress - infrastructure, technology, productivity and otherwise.

        2) Social contracts. If indeed the majority of people should wind up broke in old age - then what exactly is the reason we contribute to Social Security? Clearly this model cannot work then.

        3) Secular environment deterioration. Bankster activities causing all expenses to increase at or above rates of population increase - see house prices, secondary education, health care, etc etc.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

          Originally posted by ASH View Post
          The real problem, I think, is more along the lines of what that Scott Hanson guy says at the end of the article -- most people aren't (able) to save at a rate sufficient to support themselves in retirement even under the simple model, and assuming bubble decade rates of growth.... But to be honest, in an efficient labor market, those categories of labor for which the supply is large aren't compensated enough in excess of immediate living expenses to save for decades of retirement. For much of the population, retiring at ease out of one's saved earnings is not a natural phenomenon in an efficient market economy. One must accept either a substantial mispricing of labor (due to collective bargaining, for instance) to provide unskilled workers with enough margin over subsistence to save, subsidize retirement through redistributive taxation (between economic classes and generations), or accept that a large fraction of the population will be improverished in old age.
          Ash--Your very clear statement here of what constitutes an efficient labor market--one in which unskilled workers are reduced to living on just enough to sustain them, with no capability of providing for their future--is in fact a powerful indictment of capitalism and the market as the basis for human society. I am afraid it also provides a chilling picture of the future that capital intends for us all. Note all the things that have been led to "labor mispricing" that are now being swept away or at least challenged: labor unions that actually fight for their members; social programs which provide material support to working class families; secure pensions; Social Security.

          It is not only unskilled workers who are in danger of being reduced to a bare subsistence living. Many skilled jobs are being de-skilled or replaced by automation or are being outsourced to India, etc. Capitalism and its dreams of labor efficiency do not offer a promising future to most of the world's people, including most Americans.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

            While I know it was only meant to demonstrate the market downturn issue, these scenarios always piss me off because of several things:

            1) "The rate of return is assumed to be starting salary of 40k growing at a rate of 3% per year until retirement." Thats not real life. Nor does it address falling living standards or rising work hours.

            2) We are assuming inflation will only be 3 %?

            3) So I have 1 mil at retirement. Its not the same 1 mil that it was 40 years ago. This is not inflation adjusted?

            So basically all these financial planners are looking up at their tonsils.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

              Originally posted by Dave Stratman
              Ash--Your very clear statement here of what constitutes an efficient labor market--one in which unskilled workers are reduced to living on just enough to sustain them, with no capability of providing for their future--is in fact a powerful indictment of capitalism and the market as the basis for human society. I am afraid it also provides a chilling picture of the future that capital intends for us all. Note all the things that have been led to "labor mispricing" that are now being swept away or at least challenged: labor unions that actually fight for their members; social programs which provide material support to working class families; secure pensions; Social Security.

              It is not only unskilled workers who are in danger of being reduced to a bare subsistence living. Many skilled jobs are being de-skilled or replaced by automation or are being outsourced to India, etc. Capitalism and its dreams of labor efficiency do not offer a promising future to most of the world's people, including most Americans.
              It should be noted that many unskilled workers in the 50s to 80s period were able to raise families and build up a nest egg.

              In a former life, I had the privilege of interacting with a lot of former "unskilled" retirees. While they are by and large living off Medicare and Social Security in fully owned homes, the ones who were unionized bought homes while the ones who were not are completely dependent on those two programs.

              One contrast in particular: a unionized hotel laundry woman with a gardener husband(who was in and out of work) was able to raise 3 kids and buy a house which is now worth around $500K - in comparison a hairdresser with a who's who client list managed to score a rent controlled flat in the best part of town, but otherwise lives on her $800/month Social Security check by herself. She never married and has no kids.

              Anyone who follows what I post knows my view: the banksters have destroyed any possibility of the former scenario via their asset price machinations.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

                Originally posted by Dave Stratman View Post
                Ash--Your very clear statement here of what constitutes an efficient labor market--one in which unskilled workers are reduced to living on just enough to sustain them, with no capability of providing for their future--is in fact a powerful indictment of capitalism and the market as the basis for human society. I am afraid it also provides a chilling picture of the future that capital intends for us all. Note all the things that have been led to "labor mispricing" that are now being swept away or at least challenged: labor unions that actually fight for their members; social programs which provide material support to working class families; secure pensions; Social Security.

                It is not only unskilled workers who are in danger of being reduced to a bare subsistence living. Many skilled jobs are being de-skilled or replaced by automation or are being outsourced to India, etc. Capitalism and its dreams of labor efficiency do not offer a promising future to most of the world's people, including most Americans.
                Thanks, Dave. I think it is important for free market fundamentalists to understand what their choices are. One variety of free market utopianist likes to believe that people can take care of themselves if they are responsible during their working years, and tends to see an impoverished retirement as the just desserts for an improvident life. But the idea that the wages of unskilled labor must converge upon subsistence, when labor is abundant, goes right back to Adam Smith. So either we pay market wages to maximize the efficiency of the total economy and redistribute between economic classes and generations, or we sacrifice competitiveness and efficiency by paying artificially high wages, or we allow lots of elderly to live in poverty. (Or, I suppose, if we contrive to make unskilled labor scarce somehow... but that seems like a stretch.) What we can't do is make policy on the pretense that "none of the above" is an option.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

                  Originally posted by ASH
                  So either we pay market wages to maximize the efficiency of the total economy and redistribute between economic classes and generations, or we sacrifice competitiveness and efficiency by paying artificially high wages, or we allow lots of elderly to live in poverty. (Or, I suppose, if we contrive to make unskilled labor scarce somehow... but that seems like a stretch.) What we can't do is make policy on the pretense that "none of the above" is an option.
                  How about breaking the banksters effect on asset prices?

                  How about government policies which allow wages to keep steady with inflation?

                  Neither of these has anything to do with subsidies for the poor, rather they have everything to do with subsidies for the banksters.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

                    Originally posted by Dave Stratman View Post
                    Ash--Your very clear statement here of what constitutes an efficient labor market--one in which unskilled workers are reduced to living on just enough to sustain them, with no capability of providing for their future--is in fact a powerful indictment of capitalism and the market as the basis for human society. I am afraid it also provides a chilling picture of the future that capital intends for us all.

                    It is not only unskilled workers who are in danger of being reduced to a bare subsistence living. Many skilled jobs are being de-skilled or replaced by automation or are being outsourced to India, etc. Capitalism and its dreams of labor efficiency do not offer a promising future to most of the world's people, including most Americans.
                    Neo-serfdom and debt peonage for 95-99% of the worlds population.

                    Wealth beyond the dreams of averice for the remaing minority 1-5%.


                    "oh, what a world it would be"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

                      This thread makes me thankful I had the parents I did. My father had me open up a retirement account when I was 16 and got my first job. Putting away for retirement was drilled into my head at a young age.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

                        Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                        It should be noted that many unskilled workers in the 50s to 80s period were able to raise families and build up a nest egg.

                        In a former life, I had the privilege of interacting with a lot of former "unskilled" retirees. While they are by and large living off Medicare and Social Security in fully owned homes, the ones who were unionized bought homes while the ones who were not are completely dependent on those two programs.

                        One contrast in particular: a unionized hotel laundry woman with a gardener husband(who was in and out of work) was able to raise 3 kids and buy a house which is now worth around $500K - in comparison a hairdresser with a who's who client list managed to score a rent controlled flat in the best part of town, but otherwise lives on her $800/month Social Security check by herself. She never married and has no kids.
                        My interpretation is that the ability of unskilled Americans of that generation to prosper relate to mispricing of labor through unionization, and inefficiency due to limited access to pools of cheaper foreign or immigrant labor. I'm not sure how to re-create those conditions today.

                        (EDIT: Or, maybe a better way to say the part about limited trade was that at the time, the labor market was tighter, and so market forces priced labor above subsistence.)
                        Last edited by ASH; January 23, 2011, 12:20 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

                          Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                          It should be noted that many unskilled workers in the 50s to 80s period were able to raise families and build up a nest egg.

                          In a former life, I had the privilege of interacting with a lot of former "unskilled" retirees. While they are by and large living off Medicare and Social Security in fully owned homes, the ones who were unionized bought homes while the ones who were not are completely dependent on those two programs.

                          One contrast in particular: a unionized hotel laundry woman with a gardener husband(who was in and out of work) was able to raise 3 kids and buy a house which is now worth around $500K - in comparison a hairdresser with a who's who client list managed to score a rent controlled flat in the best part of town, but otherwise lives on her $800/month Social Security check by herself. She never married and has no kids.

                          Anyone who follows what I post knows my view: the banksters have destroyed any possibility of the former scenario via their asset price machinations.
                          My father didn't have a college degree and my Mom only had a 2 year degree and they raised 4 children, paid for college for those kids and both lost their jobs in their mid-50's and were still ok. Well, my father was forced into early retirement or risk being fired. He received a small pension but my mother didn't get any benefits from her job. I don't know if it would be as possible for someone in a similar position to be as successful as my parents were.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

                            Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                            How about breaking the banksters effect on asset prices?

                            How about government policies which allow wages to keep steady with inflation?

                            Neither of these has anything to do with subsidies for the poor, rather they have everything to do with subsidies for the banksters.
                            Although I am in favor of killing off the asset price inflation game, it's not clear to me whether this will help raise the wages of unskilled labor above subsistence.

                            As for government policies that keep wages steady with inflation -- that is an example of a regulated (and therefore not free) labor market. That is one of the options I mentioned.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Lifetime Saving for Retirement a Sham! Say It Ain't So ....

                              Originally posted by ASH View Post
                              My interpretation is that the ability of unskilled Americans of that generation to prosper relate to mispricing of labor through unionization, and inefficiency due to limited access to pools of cheaper foreign or immigrant labor. I'm not sure how to re-create those conditions today.
                              They didn't have debt too which I think makes a huge difference. My father put money away while he was in the Navy and paid cash for property he would build his first home on. My mother lived at home while working and getting her 2 year degree. They bought old, used cars with cash. If you did get a home loan, you paid it off as soon as you could. 10% of your paycheck went towards retirement from the day you started working.

                              Now people in their 20's go off to college, which adds to their student loans, and don't work. When they graduate, they have no savings and huge debt. Then they have to get a new car, house, decorate, etc. Student loans aren't paid off until their children go to college and they don't start thinking about retirement until they're in their late 40's. Yes, there is a problem with wages not keeping up but I think debt has hurt our society even more.
                              Last edited by Kadriana; January 23, 2011, 07:21 PM.

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