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  • Stockman's Point of No Return

    Exclusive: America has ‘reached the point of no return,’ Reagan budget director warns

    The Obama administration's $78 billion cut to US defense spending is a mere "pin-prick" to a behemoth military-industrial complex that must drastically shrink for the good of the republic, a former Reagan administration budget director recently told Raw Story. "It amounts to a failed opportunity to recognize that we are now at a historical inflection point at which the time has arrived for a classic post-war demobilization of the entire military establishment," David Stockman said in an exclusive interview.

    "The Cold War is long over," he continued. "The wars of occupation are almost over and were complete failures -- Afghanistan and Iraq. The American empire is done. There are no real seriously armed enemies left in the world that can possibly justify an $800 billion national defense and security establishment, including Homeland Security."

    Short of that, he suggested, the United States has "reached the point of no return" with its artificial creation of wealth, and will eventually face a sharp economic decline.

    Stockman, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan in 1981 to run the Office of Management and Budget, offered two models for the US military's compulsory demobilization: the one after World War I in 1920 and the one after World War II in 1946.

    Calling today's military spending running at 5.4 percent of GDP "simply an absurd level that begs for radical contraction and surgery," he said that a "reasonable target" to shrink the defense establishment would be 3 percent of GDP by 2015.

    What budget cuts?

    Republicans, who were elected to a majority in the House of Representatives on promises to cut government spending, promised to cut $100 billion from the budget in their first year. Relatively few have proposed significant decreases in defense spending, and GOP leadership has outright dismissed the possibility.

    Some prominent members of the House GOP caucus have even suggested the sum of their austerity measures could fall to only $30 billion, if that.

    But with the US national debt ballooning past $14 trillion in recent days, even a debasement of the military-industrial complex might be too little, too late.

    Some analysts have warned the next debt crisis could be municipal bonds, where a $2 trillion market bubble currently exists. One, who correctly predicted the Citigroup credit crunch, even suggested that over 100 US cities may default in the process.

    But very few, if anyone, in Congress, the National Security Council, the State or Defense Departments have even dared to publicly raise the prospect of reducing the military establishment and its spending to offset the national debt, Stockman said.

    "Unless you have a profound change in foreign policy, you're not going to have the possibility of a radical change in defense spending. The later follows from the former," he said.

    "This is a profound disappointment that there's not even a debate -- a serious debate about dramatic change in our imperialist foreign policy and war-making establishment in this administration -- allegedly the most left-wing administration that we've had in modern time."

    "I don't have much hope that what needs to be done will be done until it's finally forced on us by a world bond market crisis, which will happen sooner or later," Stockman added.

    The 'Ponzi scheme' of 'artificial prosperity'

    Stockman, who described himself as a libertarian during a recent interview with Reason.tv, told Raw Story that the economy got into this mess because of the public and private sectors' addiction to "guns and butter Keynesianism," an economic policy that amounts to a Ponzi scheme that has ballooned since 1990.

    "If we see what's going on carefully, we've reached the final unmasking of the Keynesian illusion, that Keynesianism is really nothing but borrowing, stealing from the future to induce consumption today," he said. "There are no multipliers. Every one of these programs we've had from 'cash for clunkers' to housing purchase credits have disappeared as soon as they expired and simple shifted activities in time by a few months."

    Stockman explained that before 1980, it took about $1.50 of new borrowing -- public or private -- to generate $1 of GDP growth. By the mid-1990s, it was $2.50 or $3 of borrowing for a $1 of GDP growth. By 2007, before the big collapse and meltdown finally came, $7 of public and private debt was added to the national balance sheet in order to get $1 of GDP growth.

    "When you get to the point of $7 of borrowing to get $1 of income, you're obviously on an unsustainable path and pretty close to hitting the wall, which more or less we have," he said.

    "So the addicts in Washington are now unfortunately terrified to stop all this borrowing whether it's for guns or butter for fear of the economy will collapse.... That's why we're just at the beginning of solving this massive financial collapse we had in 2008 and not in the process of healthy recovery as some of the pals in the White House or on Capitol Hill or on Wall Street would have you believe."

    America's "massive debt-created, artificial prosperity" is unprecedented in history, he continued. The dependence on consumption supported by public and private borrowing, not income, is a new stage for Western Europe as well.

    A global public debt crisis was inevitable and likely unstoppable, given the political conditions, Stockman added.

    "We've reached a point of no return. The size of the government. The massive size of the deficits and the national debt that has been created. The precedents that have been established for bailouts and intervention in every sector of the economy. The K Street lobbying system which totally dominates the Congress. All of these are very unhealthy developments.

    "And I'm not sure how they are going to be reversed or eliminated," he concluded. "It may be a permanent way of life. Then, if it is, it'll be both a corruption of democracy and a serious weakening of the private capitalistic economy."

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/a...irector-warns/

  • #2
    Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

    Thanks Don, pretty much parallels what Furgeson is saying. Our fiscal situation will force us to reduce defense expenditure which will accelerate the decline of the american empire. It's going to be a wild ride/car crash if we don't act immediatly.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

      Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
      Thanks Don, pretty much parallels what Furgeson is saying. Our fiscal situation will force us to reduce defense expenditure which will accelerate the decline of the american empire. It's going to be a wild ride/car crash if we don't act immediatly.
      Can the Reserve Currency status of the bonar be retained if the military is substantially cut back. There's the rub (not to mention the nuptial basis for the marriage of the M-I-C and FIRE)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

        Stockman´s presentation is very much alike EJ´s ideas, in a less developed economic language.
        The peak cheap oil cycle should be added.
        So, we´re in for the USA arriving at a sovereign bond market crisis.
        What is a small (microscopic) capitalist to do about it?
        That´s the question

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

          What is a small (microscopic) capitalist to do about it?
          That´s the question


          My answer is to that question is to get completely out of debt ASAP.
          Wife & I will have the mortgage paid off soon and then no debt.
          I would prefer to be living on a well outfitted blue water sailboat when things get bad.
          We'll see.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

            let's not get all Club Orlov, yet.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

              Originally posted by don View Post
              Exclusive: America has ‘reached the point of no return,’ Reagan budget director warns

              The Obama administration's $78 billion cut to US defense spending is a mere "pin-prick" to a behemoth military-industrial complex that must drastically shrink for the good of the republic,...
              ...
              "This is a profound disappointment that there's not even a debate -- a serious debate about dramatic change in our imperialist foreign policy and war-making establishment in this administration -- allegedly the most left-wing administration that we've had in modern time."

              "I don't have much hope that what needs to be done will be done until it's finally forced on us by a world bond market crisis, which will happen sooner or later," Stockman added.
              ...
              Stockman explained that before 1980, it took about $1.50 of new borrowing -- public or private -- to generate $1 of GDP growth. By the mid-1990s, it was $2.50 or $3 of borrowing for a $1 of GDP growth. By 2007, before the big collapse and meltdown finally came, $7 of public and private debt was added to the national balance sheet in order to get $1 of GDP growth.

              "When you get to the point of $7 of borrowing to get $1 of income, you're obviously on an unsustainable path and pretty close to hitting the wall, which more or less we have," he said.

              (so much for krugman's BS re 1.3trillion not being enuf!)

              "So the addicts in Washington are now unfortunately terrified to stop all this borrowing whether it's for guns or butter for fear of the economy will collapse.......
              ...
              "And I'm not sure how they are going to be reversed or eliminated," he concluded. "It may be a permanent way of life. Then, if it is, it'll be both a corruption of democracy and a serious weakening of the private capitalistic economy."
              ...
              wow, huh?
              when one of em finally has The Balls to come right out and say it!
              tho i'm 'kinda rightwing', methinks The US ought to close _all_ the mil bases not on our own territory and tell europe, asia they are on their own, far as defense - since its been proven beyond any shadow of doubt (since yugoslavia) that we no longer possess the political will to effectively project our military might (its not possible to conduct a 'politically korrect war' where theres no 'collateral damage' and nobody gets pissed off at us - SO WHY BOTHER WITH THE ILLUSION anymore? its simply insanity to think The US can afford to pay the freight to support the rest of the worlds defense arrangements anymore - and with the exception of 'critical natural ressources infrastructure' (read middle east oil facilities that we have paid thru the nose for over the past 50years)
              close the bases, pull back the troops and fallback to the final line of defense: the nuclear marginot line, as in: "all the rest of you folks had better play nice now, cuz if ya screw around, we'll glass ya"

              and then when we no longer are paying the price for the rest of the worlds security, we INVEST THE DIFFERENCE INTO REBUILDING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, including 500 nuclear power stations, so that we can then tell the arabs to EAT YER PHREAKIN OIL!

              other than that, i dont really have any opinion on the matter....

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

                Of course, Stockman was a MAJOR contributer to the problems we have now, through his promotion of the FIRE economy under Reagan, and his starve the beast policies that led to our enormous debt, and he has yet to admit to his disastrous role in this mess. So it's hard to weed through much of his nonsense.

                But for the sake of argument, I'll even disagree with his proposal to cut the military budget.

                Most of us at iTulip realize the enormous problem Peak Cheap Oil will be in the very near future and for decades to come. It threatens our economy, our climate, and our National Security. The political reality of the Republican politicians of today, will not allow a major program to be initiated that would remove our dependence on fossil fuels and transition our economy to a renewable energy based and sustainable economy.

                If President Obama had any common sense (and I'm no longer sure he does), with one stroke of the pen he could command our military to transition the U.S. military to be 50% self sufficient in it's energy usage with the use of renewable energy sources, by 2015. Since this is by far and away the biggest threat to our National Security, all major weapons systems would be put on hold (at an appropriate point) and all funding would be transfered to the goal of energy independence.

                I realize a lot would still have to pass through congress, but I would have a hard time believing we would see united Republican opposition to a goal that the Secretary of Defense has stated is the most important threat to our National Security. When you set the Military Industrial complex lose on solving the problems of fossil fuel dependence, huge segments of the rest of the economy are going to get dragged along.

                So don't cut the military budget, just change their mission, and just maybe we might be able to stop our country, and most of the rest of human civilization, from entering into a new dark ages.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

                  Originally posted by we_are_toast View Post
                  Of course, Stockman was a MAJOR contributer to the problems we have now, through his promotion of the FIRE economy under Reagan, and his starve the beast policies that led to our enormous debt, and he has yet to admit to his disastrous role in this mess. ...
                  The starve-the-beast strategy is an important point. It looks like they have largely succeeded. I sure hope they are right about the economic paradise they have promised will ensue for all of us. I really, really hope they are right.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

                    If President Obama had any common sense (and I'm no longer sure he does), with one stroke of the pen he could command our military to transition the U.S. military to be 50% self sufficient in it's energy usage with the use of renewable energy sources, by 2015. Since this is by far and away the biggest threat to our National Security, all major weapons systems would be put on hold (at an appropriate point) and all funding would be transfered to the goal of energy independence.



                    Already happended man, get with the program already! Seriously, they are already planning and implementing this. Except goal is 2016, not as quickly as you recommend but close.

                    http://www.eglin.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123196918

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

                      Originally posted by thriftyandboringinohio View Post
                      The starve-the-beast strategy is an important point. It looks like they have largely succeeded. I sure hope they are right about the economic paradise they have promised will ensue for all of us. I really, really hope they are right.
                      so you cut the size of government by running bigger deficits? sounds rather illogic to me; more likely result is that essential services will run out of money and that the elite part of government with real power will keep tax income for as long as possible. Think cuts in medicair/medicaid/social security, local government and keep spending on defence and bailing out FIRE. Wait, that's happening right now...

                      What about the theory that FIRE as part of 'economic innovation' was used in the cold war against the SSSR? If true, the main issue is that they didn't dismantle this industry after the collapse of the soviet block.
                      engineer with little (or even no) economic insight

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

                        Originally posted by FrankL View Post
                        so you cut the size of government by running bigger deficits? sounds rather illogic to me...
                        None the less, that was (and is) the theory.

                        “Starve the Beast”
                        Origins and Development of a
                        Budgetary Metaphor

                        BRUCE BARTLETT

                        In recent years, one of the most common metaphors for using tax cuts to discipline
                        government spending has been “starve the beast.” The idea is that if


                        revenues are unilaterally reduced, this reduction will lead to a higher budget

                        deficit, which will force legislators to enact spending cuts. Thus, using tax cuts to

                        bring about spending cuts has been called “starving the beast

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

                          Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
                          If President Obama had any common sense (and I'm no longer sure he does), with one stroke of the pen he could command our military to transition the U.S. military to be 50% self sufficient in it's energy usage with the use of renewable energy sources, by 2015. Since this is by far and away the biggest threat to our National Security, all major weapons systems would be put on hold (at an appropriate point) and all funding would be transfered to the goal of energy independence.



                          Already happended man, get with the program already! Seriously, they are already planning and implementing this. Except goal is 2016, not as quickly as you recommend but close.

                          http://www.eglin.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123196918
                          Needs to be a much, much bigger scale. Demonstration programs won't cut it. ALL the military, ALL the energy.

                          The Air Force is the largest user of jet fuel in DOD, consuming 2.4 billion gallons per year. The goal is to switch half of the continental U.S. jet fuel requirement to alternative fuels by 2016. A short-term goal is to have all Air Force aircraft certified to fly using alternative fuels by 2012, according to Mr. Yonkers.
                          This is a drop in the bucket.

                          Surely a military that can build internets, spy satellites, and waste hundreds of billions on sci-fi star wars programs, can spend a half $trillion on Alt-E in the next 4 years and reduce it's fossil fuel dependency in half.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

                            So which alt-E is available for flying jets?

                            If throwing money at problems was the way to solve them, then where are my nuclear fusion plants?

                            Sure, money should be invested to try and tackle these issues; thinking that it takes 4 years to get to a 50% reduction is delusional. Most alt-E schemes up to now are just disguises for agricultural subsidies (ethanol/biodiesel from crops) or a pie in the sky promoted by lobby groups (greenpeace et al).

                            @thriftyandboringinohio: so apparently that is the theory. Doesn't make much sense to me still! Even if they get there (doubt it), the means will be worse than the result.
                            engineer with little (or even no) economic insight

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Stockman's Point of No Return

                              I'll take a smaller yet still quite lethal military with the goal of actually defending the USA over a greener yet still bloated one any day. This isn't some politically correct game were playing here. Of course, in most cases, more fuel efficiency would also equal more combat efficiency I'd think.

                              Toast, maybe I'm not clear, are you still hung up on all that partisan crap? Sounds like Stockman is making perfect sense, and your only objection is the political party of the messenger? I think most of what he says is spot on. Especially the part about Keynesian economics being a glorified Ponzi scheme. And if you are worried about cutting people's jobs when the military is cut, we'd be better off just sending them a check every month to do nothing than to keep up this Empire charade. For every grunt in a foxhole there is millions of dollars spent on supporting equipment, and other expenses. I feel the same way about government employees. For those who are given make-work jobs in repayment of political favors, just send them a check. Then at least we wouldn't have to pay for the buildings and the energy they use.

                              Every time they threaten to cut a base in the US , an uproar goes up because it will cost jobs, with no consideration whether we really need the base or not. Sooner or later this country will come to the realization that it may have to just pay people rather than continue to rationalize reasons to employ them.

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