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Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

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  • Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

    In very un-Icelandic fashion, last week protestors in Athens tried to blow up a downtown courthouse. Over a year after the Hellenic meltdown, the Greek newspapers still reflect the popular fury—protests, strikes, senseless violence—at the mandatory cutbacks, the public sector layoffs, and the high-interest needed to attract investors to shaky Greek bonds. And yet amid the furor, 60% of the public still polls in favor of the European Union. How are we to diagnose the drowning non-swimmer who eagerly grasps—and yet hates—the life preserver?

    A bit of story-telling: When I lived in Greece in the 1970s, it was a relatively poor country. The road system was deplorable; the airport at Athens was little more than an insulated warehouse. I usually stayed in hotels with bathrooms down the hall. A bus trip of about 200 miles translated into about a six hour marathon. The buses were often of eastern European make and spewed black smoke into the Athenian air whose toxic bite could devour marble. Rail travel was nightmarish (biking was quicker). There was no bridge across the Gulf of Corinth. The Athens “subway” was little more than a 19th century electric carriage.

    Greeks’ second homes were one bedroom village affairs. It was rare to see a Mercedes in Athens. I knew one Greek who had a swimming pool. Getting off an island ferry boat usually meant meeting a swarm of older ladies trying to hawk you their extra bedroom for rent.

    You get the picture:1970s Greece reflected a small southern Balkan population wedded to a siesta lifestyle, on a rocky peninsula in which there was little wealth other than tourism, a poorly developed agriculture, some shipping, and remittances from Greek expatriates in the United States and Germany.

    Fast forward to the post-Olympics Greece: five star hotels, 20,000 plus private swimming pools (most of them unreported for tax purposes), half the work force ensconced in cushy government or government-related jobs, Attica dotted with Riviera-like second homes, BMWs more common than Mercedeses, billions of euros worth of new highways, and a new airport and subway system.

    In other words, somehow a country without a manufacturing base and with poor productivity, a small population, an inefficient statist economy, and bloated public sector suddenly went from near third world status to a standard of living not that much different from a Munich or Amsterdam. How? Did Greek socialism produce all that wealth?

    Well, we know the answer: northern European cash—borrowed, given, or swindled. The radical new affluence in part was justified by the fact that Germans and Scandinavians wanted good infrastructure and facilities when they went on their annual summer Greek vacations—along with pan-EU pipe dreams and fraudulent Greek book keeping that disguised massive debt.

    Now? Oz is over with and the Greeks are furious at “them.” Furious in the sense that everyone must be blamed except themselves. So they protest and demonstrate that they do not wish to stop borrowing money to sustain a lifestyle that they have not earned—but do not wish to cut ties either with their EU beneficiaries and go it alone as in the 1970s. So they rage against reality.

    California Got What It Wanted

    The same is true of California. Our elites liked the idea of stopping new gas and oil extraction, shutting down the nuclear power industry, freezing state east-west freeways, strangling the mining and timber industries, cutting off water to agriculture in the Central Valley, diverting revenues from fixing roads and bridges to redistributive entitlements, and praising the new multicultural state that would welcome in half the nation’s 11-15 million illegal aliens.

    Rest here.

    http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavish...inglepage=true
    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

  • #2
    Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

    Good article. I've long concluded that many people cannot accept the fact that people are different. Some cultures are very hard working and obsessed(perhaps over obsessed) with making money. Others are laid back and value the "siesta lifestyle" as the author puts it, over making money. Nothing wrong with either in my opinion. There is value in both. But what is wrong is expecting all the wealth to naturally equal out among nations when the behavior that led to this wealth is never discussed.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

      I like the immigrants moving-in from Baja California to California. I am pro-immigrant, always! I am 100% globalist and 100% pro-NAFTA.

      Immigrants enrich a country with their labour, with their talent, with their energy, with their ideas, and with their culture...... Also, as a Canadian and as an American, I am pro-immigrant. Both Canada and America are nations of immigrants.

      What does the Statue of Liberty in America stand for? What does the beaver on the Canadian nickel stand for? Immigrants! New-comers! Hope and freedom!

      My fondest memories of Winnipeg were frozen-doors, even being frozen into a barber-shop at -30F (-34C), with a barber that came from Yugoslavia. As we chipped at the door, he told me why he moved to Canada.... When we finally got the door open, I had frost-bite in my fingers, and I had to put my fingers on the muffler of my Volkswagen to warm them up, just so that I could move my fingers and drive my car away.... Later that night, the low in Winnipeg was -39F--- and not a record!

      Where California went wrong was to let the green-bunch ( the eco-frauds ) take-over and run the state. And here in British Columbia, it is much the same story: the green-bunch run everything, and nothing can get done. They hate people, and they hate growth. Their mantra is stopping growth.

      Here in BC, so long as my health holds-out, I will lead a fight against the eco-bunch.... I am Starving Steve, and I am tired of starving.

      And for the record, it is now, Thursday, Jan 6, 2011: I left my full name, nick-name, and telephone number on the message-machine of the NDP Caucus in Victoria, and they still haven't returned my call. Twice I left my name and my telephone number. I have a land-line telephone number, so nothing fancy or too modern..... What kind of NDP is this?

      One-hundred and nine dollars per month is my water-bill, in a rain-forest! And the Liberals run BC! When it came to the last water-meeting, they called my complaint, "old business" and not on their agenda, so they didn't want to hear my complaint again..... The CRD now wants to spend money on consultants and studies......... This is what we get from government.

      Last edited by Starving Steve; January 06, 2011, 04:38 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

        Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
        I like the immigrants moving-in from Baja California to California. I am pro-immigrant, always! I am 100% globalist and 100% pro-NAFTA.
        I agree about immigration but you can't have a welfare state and open immigration without going bankrupt. The natural solution, of course, is to eliminate the welfare state. I totally disagree about NAFTA though. It's Orwellian at its finest since "Free Trade" is in the name, yet it's all about restricting trade to a cartel of North American countries.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

          Originally posted by Mashuri View Post
          I agree about immigration but you can't have a welfare state and open immigration without going bankrupt. The natural solution, of course, is to eliminate the welfare state. I totally disagree about NAFTA though. It's Orwellian at its finest since "Free Trade" is in the name, yet it's all about restricting trade to a cartel of North American countries.
          I think I would favour free-trade agreements with most countries. So on this issue, I think George Bush, Junior was progressive, and I would agree with him. Free-trade is a very good thing for everyone........... Either you end-up with jobs or a lower cost-of-living, or both. Being pragmatic, I favour solutions that work, and free-trade works. Everyone wins.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

            Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
            I think I would favour free-trade agreements with most countries. So on this issue, I think George Bush, Junior was progressive, and I would agree with him. Free-trade is a very good thing for everyone........... Either you end-up with jobs or a lower cost-of-living, or both. Being pragmatic, I favour solutions that work, and free-trade works. Everyone wins.
            I totally agree that free trade works, which is why I dislike NAFTA. It's about restricting trade.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

              Originally posted by Mashuri View Post
              I totally agree that free trade works, which is why I dislike NAFTA. It's about restricting trade.
              How does NAFTA restrict trade? And I favour free-trade agreements with almost all nations, Iran probably being the sole exception.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

                Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                How does NAFTA restrict trade? And I favour free-trade agreements with almost all nations, Iran probably being the sole exception.
                NAFTA is an instance of regional mercantilism. The U.S. is master of the North American continent, granting preferential trade status ("regional content" laws) to any goods produced in the signing countries, while penalizing goods from outside. In a nutshell, any goods produced outside the NAFTA cartel (Europe, Japan, etc) are penalized relative to goods produced inside the cartel (U.S., Canada, Mexico, etc.) Free trade means I am able to trade with anyone I choose, without government intervention. NAFTA does the opposite.

                EDIT: BTW, true free trade, being a lack of government intervention, does not require any "agreement" or treaty but just the opposite. Be wary of any "free trade" treaty as they are all mercantilism in disguise. I challenge you to find any that are not riddled with restrictions and tariffs. In NAFTA, for example, almost half of its 2,000 pages are tariff rates. NAFTA is free trade, slavery is freedom, war is peace, blah, blah, blah.
                Last edited by Mashuri; January 06, 2011, 06:25 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

                  Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                  I like the immigrants moving-in from Baja California to California. I am pro-immigrant, always! I am 100% globalist and 100% pro-NAFTA.

                  Immigrants enrich a country with their labour, with their talent, with their energy, with their ideas, and with their culture...... Also, as a Canadian and as an American, I am pro-immigrant. Both Canada and America are nations of immigrants.

                  What does the Statue of Liberty in America stand for? What does the beaver on the Canadian nickel stand for? Immigrants! New-comers! Hope and freedom!

                  My fondest memories of Winnipeg were frozen-doors, even being frozen into a barber-shop at -30F (-34C), with a barber that came from Yugoslavia. As we chipped at the door, he told me why he moved to Canada.... When we finally got the door open, I had frost-bite in my fingers, and I had to put my fingers on the muffler of my Volkswagen to warm them up, just so that I could move my fingers and drive my car away.... Later that night, the low in Winnipeg was -39F--- and not a record!

                  Where California went wrong was to let the green-bunch ( the eco-frauds ) take-over and run the state. And here in British Columbia, it is much the same story: the green-bunch run everything, and nothing can get done. They hate people, and they hate growth. Their mantra is stopping growth.

                  Here in BC, so long as my health holds-out, I will lead a fight against the eco-bunch.... I am Starving Steve, and I am tired of starving.

                  And for the record, it is now, Thursday, Jan 6, 2011: I left my full name, nick-name, and telephone number on the message-machine of the NDP Caucus in Victoria, and they still haven't returned my call. Twice I left my name and my telephone number. I have a land-line telephone number, so nothing fancy or too modern..... What kind of NDP is this?

                  One-hundred and nine dollars per month is my water-bill, in a rain-forest! And the Liberals run BC! When it came to the last water-meeting, they called my complaint, "old business" and not on their agenda, so they didn't want to hear my complaint again..... The CRD now wants to spend money on consultants and studies......... This is what we get from government.

                  Steve: Where do you place the usefulness of the eco-tree huggers for FIRE? They're more than tolerated, as you suggest. They're in position of "power". They must be doing something useful to the men upstairs. Otherwise they wouldn't get past the first primaries.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

                    Steve: Although immigrants enrich a country, immigration without restrictions is not always good. Think of the Ellis island.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

                      Originally posted by don View Post
                      Steve: Where do you place the usefulness of the eco-tree huggers for FIRE? They're more than tolerated, as you suggest. They're in position of "power". They must be doing something useful to the men upstairs. Otherwise they wouldn't get past the first primaries.
                      I did see the bald-eagle sanctuary in Squamish, BC just before the holidays. That sanctuary brings-in tourists, so that sanctuary makes sense. It's good for the economy.

                      By the way, the bald-eagles were content-as-can-be with a busy railroad-line next to their sanctuary, plus a busy highway, plus condomiums for people, plus homes for people, plus shopping for people.........Everyone was a winner, including the birds.

                      There was even a major power-trail carrying high-voltage next to the bird sanctuary. The bald-eagles loved it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

                        There should be restrictions to prevent criminal activity and criminals moving freely between countries. But aside from that one concern, I favour open-borders and people moving freely between nations.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Raging Against "Them" (Greece and California): VDH

                          Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                          Good article. I've long concluded that many people cannot accept the fact that people are different. Some cultures are very hard working and obsessed(perhaps over obsessed) with making money. Others are laid back and value the "siesta lifestyle" as the author puts it, over making money. Nothing wrong with either in my opinion. There is value in both. But what is wrong is expecting all the wealth to naturally equal out among nations when the behavior that led to this wealth is never discussed.
                          The above is the generally accepted view, which in my opinion, does not reflect reality.

                          See:

                          Greeks work more hours than most OECD countries
                          http://suddendebt.blogspot.com/2011/01/mythbusters.html

                          and this:
                          http://suddendebt.blogspot.com/2010/...-reindeer.html

                          Greece's household debt as a percentage of gdp is much smaller than most other countries, including Germany.

                          http://www.google.gr/imgres?imgurl=h...1t:429,r:1,s:0

                          So what happened? Greece never went through phase one of debt destruction/balance sheet shifting. Phase one is the destruction of private credit balance sheets and credit growth, which in turn, was shifted onto sovereign balance sheets. Think US and QE and TARP, etc...

                          Thus, Greece's debt became burdensome immediately - there was no one else to turn to but the IMF and ECB.

                          The US, Germany, the UK, etc.. will experience their crises when their sovereign debt loads become unmanageable after they are finished absorbing private sector balance sheets. Germany's banks are in horrendous shape. They also own a lot of periphery debt.

                          And yes, the Greek public sector is bloated - but actually, if you include the Private Defense industry, which is disproportionately fueled by US Government (debt) spending as public sector employees, the US has more public sector employees as a percentage of total employment than Greece does.

                          We are all like Greece - just at different stages.

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