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Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

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  • Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

    Andy Xie's article confirms my suspicion that Lehman bankruptcy is intentional - Lehman has greater international exposure.

    In global finance, the loss incurred by the other guy will turn out to be my gain.


    http://www.businessinsider.com/andy-...n-2011-2010-12

    Andy Xie: Either America Or China Will Crash In 2011
    Gus Lubin | Dec. 27, 2010, 9:25 AM | 439 | comment 2
    *
    Andy Xie's latest sees the liquidity war getting worse in 2011.

    America will continue to pump the financial system with liquidity via tax cuts and quantitative easing. China will keep the yuan cheap and avoid clamping down on inflation.

    The tense equilibrium can't last for long, as either sovereign debt or inflation gets too heavy to bear. Whoever lasts longer, wins.

    Caixin:

    The most likely candidates to trigger the next global crisis are the U.S.'s sovereign debt or China's inflation. When one goes down first, the other can prolong its economic cycle. China may have won the last race. To win the next one, China must tackle its inflation problem, which is ultimately a political and structural issue, in 2011. If China does, the U.S. will again be the cause for the next global crisis. China will suffer from declining exports but benefit from lower oil prices.

    On the other hand, if China has a hard landing, the U.S.'s trade deficit can drop dramatically, maybe by 50 percent, due to lower import prices. It would boost the dollar's value and bring down the U.S.'s treasury yield. The U.S. can have lower financing costs and lower expenditures. The combination allows the U.S. to enjoy a period of good growth.

    Xie notes that China may have the advantage here. While America has committed to a liquidity hose, Beijing still has the opportunity to crack down on inflation:

    China's inflation problem stems from the country's rapid monetary growth in the past decade. That is due to the need to finance a vast property sector, which is, in turn, to generate fiscal revenues for local governments to finance their vast expenditure programs. Unless something is done to limit local government expenditure, China's inflation problem is likely to get out of control...

    There are two ways to limit local government expenditure. One is to cut their funding source. Their main revenue sources are land sales, property taxes, and bank loans. The last source is drying up a bit, as banks are saddled with high exposure to the sector already and are trying to decrease it. This change isn't biting yet because local governments haven't spent all the money they borrowed before.
    Last edited by touchring; December 28, 2010, 01:12 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

    In a similar vein, Rob Arnot interview on KWN is pretty interesting today.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

      Originally posted by doom&gloom View Post
      In a similar vein, Rob Arnot interview on KWN is pretty interesting today.
      This can be found at http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldne...ob_Arnott.html
      Most folks are good; a few aren't.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

        Inflation - once that "Genie" is out of the bottle you have a major and painful time encouraging it back in.(Aka Vocker) Its out now granting central banks their three wishes. Careful what you wish for.
        This is going to hurt

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

          I think the original article from Xie is less dramatic and more interesting because it have much more information, however one thing that's interesting is that there have been some swings today, towards a stronger RMB, and weaker dollar / treasuries. I think he have a view that higher interest rates should drive foreign speculators out and because of that put the RMB under pressure to weaken. It seems the oposite have happened. Whenever our country that have a very overvalued currency and there is some pressure to hike rates, or the oil price climbs above 100 dollars the speculators jump in like crazy. It seems it's these things that are going on so far, however, the emerging market stocks was really weak today.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

            Originally posted by nero3 View Post
            I think the original article from Xie is less dramatic and more interesting because it have much more information, however one thing that's interesting is that there have been some swings today, towards a stronger RMB, and weaker dollar / treasuries. I think he have a view that higher interest rates should drive foreign speculators out and because of that put the RMB under pressure to weaken. It seems the oposite have happened. Whenever our country that have a very overvalued currency and there is some pressure to hike rates, or the oil price climbs above 100 dollars the speculators jump in like crazy. It seems it's these things that are going on so far, however, the emerging market stocks was really weak today.

            The inflation in China is getting very serious in recent months. A strong RMB might actually be part of the plan.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

              Originally posted by thunderdownunder View Post
              Inflation - once that "Genie" is out of the bottle you have a major and painful time encouraging it back in.(Aka Vocker) Its out now granting central banks their three wishes. Careful what you wish for.
              This is going to hurt

              The Chinese believe they can control inflation, they probably thought in the worst situation they can impose a death penalty on "profiteering" on essential goods like what the emperors imposed, which i believe didn't stop inflation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

                Originally posted by touchring View Post
                The Chinese believe they can control inflation, they probably thought in the worst situation they can impose a death penalty on "profiteering" on essential goods like what the emperors imposed, which i believe didn't stop inflation.
                The nust be dipping into the same "sauce" as Bernanke...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

                  Originally posted by doom&gloom View Post
                  The nust be dipping into the same "sauce" as Bernanke...

                  As matter of fact, I don't share Andy Xie's views, he is just playing up to the communist party.

                  When you earn $80 a day (min. wage), if the price of chicken quadruples to $20, it won't really matter. But if you're a Chinese worker earning $10 a day, if one chicken costs $20, you got a big problem. If the price of chicken doubles again to $40, you'll have TianAnMen 2.0.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

                    Originally posted by touchring View Post
                    The inflation in China is getting very serious in recent months. A strong RMB might actually be part of the plan.
                    http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?que...&queryname=170

                    I think higher interest rates, as Xie also seems to think should weaken the currency. Starting from a baseline of 100 in 2005 the money supply M3 in China is now at 258 (US 134,4) , M1 is at 253,8 (US 129,8) (japan 105) This is China's peso problem.

                    I think the idea that it should not work as normal in a devenloped country when China tighten interest rates. Instead hot money should see the bubble collapsing and wanting to escape, however that might not be so easy. That would drive the country towards a devaluation and a hike in interest rates.

                    The US have never in its history seen money growth similar to China, not in any era after the Civil War. Iceland and Russia, even a few others have seen something similar. Everything seems to suggest the currency is overvalued. When people in Shenzhen does their shopping in HK because of the exchange rate it's telling that they have printed to much money inside China and that the exchange rate is to strong relative to the dollar. There is a carry trade between the dollar and the RMB that have yet to unwind.
                    Last edited by nero3; December 29, 2010, 03:49 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

                      Originally posted by touchring View Post
                      As matter of fact, I don't share Andy Xie's views, he is just playing up to the communist party.

                      When you earn $80 a day (min. wage), if the price of chicken quadruples to $20, it won't really matter. But if you're a Chinese worker earning $10 a day, if one chicken costs $20, you got a big problem. If the price of chicken doubles again to $40, you'll have TianAnMen 2.0.
                      I don't think he is. He is one of the few that see the RMB as overvalued. It was the same kind of view before the Asian Crisis that the currencies of South Korea and the other countries were undervalued. Krugman can't see it this time around, but he could see it then. It's not just to let the RMB get stronger. That's a misconception in the market. It might be so common that it could work for a while.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

                        Originally posted by nero3 View Post
                        I don't think he is. He is one of the few that see the RMB as overvalued. It was the same kind of view before the Asian Crisis that the currencies of South Korea and the other countries were undervalued. Krugman can't see it this time around, but he could see it then. It's not just to let the RMB get stronger. That's a misconception in the market. It might be so common that it could work for a while.

                        Seeing the RMB as overvalued, is in line with PRC policy - that the RMB isn't undervalued - which isn't surprising if you consider that the Chinese central bank has stuffed into SOEs almost the entire of China's GDP in just under two years.

                        Andy Xie makes good points, but he is certainly not totally neutral and has to reconcile his analysis with government stance, I'm sure he learned his lesson after this particular incident - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...jQ0&refer=home
                        Last edited by touchring; December 29, 2010, 04:44 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

                          Originally posted by touchring View Post
                          Seeing the RMB as overvalued, is in line with PRC policy - that the RMB isn't undervalued - which isn't surprising if you consider that the Chinese central bank has stuffed into SOEs almost the entire of China's GDP in just under two years.

                          Andy Xie makes good points, but he is certainly not totally neutral and has to reconcile his analysis with government stance, I'm sure he learned his lesson after this particular incident - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...jQ0&refer=home
                          I think you are unfair. I think honesty is his trademark.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

                            Originally posted by nero3 View Post
                            I think you are unfair. I think honesty is his trademark.

                            I'm sure he is an honest person, but there are certain things he can say, and certain things that he can never say, unless he wants to be like the Nobel Peace prize winner. The Nobel Peace prize winner is also telling the truth, but what he says is illegal. This isn't Norway or Sweden or Denmark. As a Chinese citizen, he can't say stuff on CNN or Bloomberg that are against official propaganda without suffering consequences.

                            Without total freedom to speak, we have to make our own deductions on what he says.

                            He believes that China will be able to control the bubble, I think otherwise. Inflation has in fact accelerated in the recent three months. Things are getting dire. Not to talk about China, even Singapore, the local currency sharply appreciated against almost all currencies has been unable to clamp down on inflation. China with its fixed currency regime is facing an even more difficult task. Everyone is expecting big hikes next year. Inflation hits hard when you're earning only $250 a month. Prices of chicken, eggs, and milk in China are not very much cheaper than in the West, if not more expensive - especially for milk and dairy products. It is tough to eat rice with cabbage only every day.
                            Last edited by touchring; December 29, 2010, 09:11 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Andy Xie: America more likely to crash again in 2011

                              Originally posted by touchring View Post
                              I'm sure he is an honest person, but there are certain things he can say, and certain things that he can never say, unless he wants to be like the Nobel Peace prize winner. The Nobel Peace prize winner is also telling the truth, but what he says is illegal. This isn't Norway or Sweden or Denmark. As a Chinese citizen, he can't say stuff on CNN or Bloomberg that are against official propaganda without suffering consequences.

                              Without total freedom to speak, we have to make our own deductions on what he says.

                              He believes that China will be able to control the bubble, I think otherwise. .
                              I am not sure if that's what he thinks. It rather seem he think's that the country will move on even the real estate market crash. I have read most articles and seen most interviews with him in 2010. It seems he thinks the bubble will bust, but if it will be now or in 2012 varies. I think he is a moody kind of person and tend to speak his mind. The timing is when the dollar turn around. It also seems that he thinks the Chinese economy can do well with a slower growth rate, less inflation, less government spending (revenue to the local government comes from the housing bubble ), that in turn could stimulate more consumtion. I think China have built 20 square metre of property for every single person during the last 10 years.Yields are around 2 % and the prices seems to be around 20 times peoples income in the larger cities. In HK there is a huge speculation to, but they don't have any income growth to speak of, so the bubble there is even worse.

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