Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

[BuckarooBanzai]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

As a Dutchman living in Germany and after reading this post i think the big difference between the US and Europe amounts to the medical issue.
The US defends it's citicens from external (army/navy) and internal (police) foes, prevents them from going hungry (food card) but lets them fend for themselves when becoming ill.
Why is it that the US sees safety and food as a basic nescessity but not health care ?
Why has Obama such big problems delivering this basis need to the people.
Why not establish a basic state health care system for all (no luxuries, expensive treatments) and have people who want more insure themselves.
This would be to the US it's advantage as wages could fall since the redicilously high health insurance costs don't apply any more.
16% or 9 % of GNP for medical costs is a HUGE difference especially when you consider that the unemployed+uninsured in the US (+25%?) don't contribute to these costs.
I don't know, but what happens with the mentally disabled and the children in the US, don't they at least have free access to medicare ?

1. Americans believe that healthcare is a basic necessity.
2. Americans DO NOT believe that the State should be in the business of providing basic necessities. Does the State provide your food? Does the State provide your shelter? Then why should the State be providing your health care?

As a European who obviously believes that the State should be in the business of providing basic necessities, why on earth aren't you agitating for the State to be providing your food and shelter? If you're in love with Socialism, then why stop with health care?

For the love of Pete, I simply can't understand Socialist logic sometimes. You Europeans could use a checkup from the neck up.

[bagginz]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

Tsk, tsk! "Lafayette, we are here!" was WWI!

Normandy put the balance back on the US side. ;-)

Touché :-)

Actually, I'm reading _Lords of Finance_ about the banking crisis before (and during) the Great Depression and reparations and war loan repayments were a major factor in it all.

Yeah, my understanding is that the seeds were sown for the collapse of the Weimar republic by the punitive terms imposed on Germany by "the big three" at the Treaty of Versaille and hence the subsequent power vacuum leading to Hitler and WW2.

Strikes me that vengence is never a good basis for making decisions, especially monumentally important ones.

Cheers,
bagginz

[oddlots]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

You don't think it has at least something to do with the fact that they're Germans and not Zulu?

The clearest statement of your philosophy yet, Serge. You are certainly honing your craft. But isn't there some madchen becokoning you to bed? Go to her Serge, for god's sake go to her.

[touchring]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

I think wikileaks managed to prevent the korean war by letting Kim know that the younger Chinese leaders actually privately don't think highly of him.

Huh? Where did you get this meme from?

What conspiracy has Wikileaks uncovered thus far?

Not a single thing I've seen is something unexpected or already known.

Assange himself out and out states that he edits the material before release, and the inclusion of MSM entities like the New York Times, the Economist, and what not are even worse signs of Wikileaks 'independence'

[oddlots]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

Yeah and the Germans and the rest of the industrialised western world are still laughing at you and your liberty: better standard of living, better education for their children, better health-care, better everything and, ridiculously, a more competitive economy. Hope you have the decency to go down with the ship.

[oddlots]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

God I've been off of the public forum on this site for 5 glorious days of freedom - from internet - in the deepest north: christmas, cross country skiing, shinny on a pond.

What an absolute downer to read this thread.

Did anyone even take a holiday? It's ideological gridlock around here. Worse than ever.

Turn it off and get outside.

[touchring]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

How about Canada, how does this work out in Canada? While Germans might be culturally distant from Americans, surely Canadians are more similar?

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

Turn it off and get outside.

Agreed.

Turn it off and go outside.

Could be a hit song.

[zmas28]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

Yes I do live in the US and was born here too. Obama is about as liberal as Bush was but has better rapport and charisma.

I think sometimes words get used by different folk with different connotations. I agree that Obama is conservative in the sense that he appears to be beholden to the same FIRE constituency as Bush, but neither were fiscal conservatives. In some ways, Obama is Bush light ;-).

Socialism is another word that means different things to different people. In many other parts of the world, it signifies a philosophy or policies that seem to favor the common man, and not the rich. (Its a bad word in the US; in much of the rest of the world, not so much). But when, the banksters were being bailed out, a lot of folk were calling it socialism. Elsewhere, it might be called crony capitalism.

[c1ue]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

I think wikileaks managed to prevent the korean war by letting Kim know that the younger Chinese leaders actually privately don't think highly of him.

Any moron with half a brain understands quite clearly that North Korea is the 'bad cop' to China's 'good cop'.

In this context China's like or dislike of North Korea's leadership is completely irrelevant.

Admittedly it is possible that the Leader doesn't understand this, but then again I think you underestimate North Korea's leadership.

They're crazy, not stupid.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

Leaving aside the ideological issues, I will repeat what others have said - including EJ:

Universal health care is not a right, but it is a clear factor in unleashing the potential of an entire populace.

Much as free public education has its down sides, nonetheless the overall benefit to society is without question. A better educated populace is more able to identify and leverage those members who can then use their capabilities to the betterment of all - including themselves.

Equally so some minimum safety net of health care would enable the populace to better able to plan its future and to withstand unanticipated shocks.

The unfortunately reality is that most of those who oppose such a plan primarily do so because they feel there would be a loss of benefits and/or increase in costs.

And this is all true - at least during any individual's given period of productive labor.

But the true benefits of a 'public option' are in the times when there isn't productive labor - for many reasons including laziness but also including sector employment collapse; for those times when labor is impossible - too young or too old; for those times when partial employment is simply insufficient to pay private health care - almost all minimum wage jobs.

What then is the true systemic cost a failure to provide a 'public option' - even to a 25 year old engineer - over his full lifetime?

While the American Dream dictates we all retire rich, this simply isn't reality.

I think that universal healthcare can be great, but there isn't a country in the world with our demographic makeup that has anything remotely approaching a functional healthcare system, free market or socialized. There is also not a single country in the world that attempts a universal healthcare system that has unrestricted immigration.

It can't work in the US. It won't work.

[touchring]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

They're crazy, not stupid.

yes, but you won't know what an aging dying man will do. if he thinks his son can stand on his own, he may adopt a "if i can't have it, no one will either" approach.

[c1ue]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

yes, but you won't know what an aging dying man will do. if he thinks his son can stand on his own, he may adopt a "if i can't have it, no one will either" approach.

Unclear what this means.

North Korea is not going to be able to take over South Korea without open Chinese support - and if the US chooses to intervene as it did in the 1950s it is doubtful success could be achieved under any circumstances.

The only other way to implement your view then is for the entire populace of North Korea to commit mass suicide.

While Kim Jr. is the titular head of the nation - he isn't his father. In my view there are valid reasons why the North Korean people support him still - not least of which is that the power structure already in place has a vested interest in continuing the charade. But in no way would mass suicide fit into this dynamic, and with either Kim Jr. or his son.

[aaron]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

He looks too young. He should grow (or glue on) a beard.

Seriously, he looks like a college frat boy. Does the military want him in charge? Do the people?

[unlucky]

Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

It was possible to argue that neither the European nor US model was inherently superior to the other, they just reflected different trade-off points chosen by different societies. Europe had more social protection but also higher unemployment. While some Europeans have always scoffed at the US, they also used to fret that Europe inevitably would always have more unemployment.

The problem right now is that the US suddenly has European-style unemployment levels. The relatively lower social protection might not be acceptable to citizens if that persists.