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  • Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

    America in Decline: Why Germans Think We're Insane

    By Democrats Ramshield, AlterNet
    Posted on December 26, 2010, Printed on December 27, 2010

    http://www.alternet.org/story/149324/

    As an American expat living in the European Union, I’ve started to see America from a different perspective.

    The European Union has a larger economy and more people than America does. Though it spends less -- right around 9 percent of GNP on medical, whereas we in the U.S. spend close to between 15 to 16 percent of GNP on medical -- the EU pretty much insures 100 percent of its population.

    The U.S. has 59 million people medically uninsured; 132 million without dental insurance; 60 million without paid sick leave; 40 million on food stamps. Everybody in the European Union has cradle-to-grave access to universal medical and a dental plan by law. The law also requires paid sick leave; paid annual leave; paid maternity leave. When you realize all of that, it becomes easy to understand why many Europeans think America has gone insane.

    Der Spiegel has run an interesting feature called "A Superpower in Decline," which attempts to explain to a German audience such odd phenomena as the rise of the Tea Party, without the hedging or attempts at "balance" found in mainstream U.S. media. On the Tea Parties:

    Full of Hatred: "The Tea Party, that group of white, older voters who claim that they want their country back, is angry. Fox News host Glenn Beck, a recovering alcoholic who likens Obama to Adolf Hitler, is angry. Beck doesn't quite know what he wants to be -- maybe a politician, maybe president, maybe a preacher -- and he doesn't know what he wants to do, either, or least he hasn't come up with any specific ideas or plans. But he is full of hatred."
    The piece continues with the sobering assessment that America’s actual unemployment rate isn’t really 10 percent, but close to 20 percent when we factor in the number of people who have stopped looking for work.

    Some social scientists think that making sure large-scale crime or fascism never takes root in Europe again requires a taxpayer investment in a strong social safety net. Can we learn from Europe? Isn't it better to invest in a social safety net than in a large criminal justice system? (In America over 2 million people are incarcerated.)

    Jobless Benefits That Never Run Out

    Unlike here, in Germany jobless benefits never run out. Not only that -- as part of their social safety net, all job seekers continue to be medically insured, as are their families.

    In the German jobless benefit system, when "jobless benefit 1" runs out, "jobless benefit 2," also known as HartzIV, kicks in. That one never gets cut off. The jobless also have contributions made for their pensions. They receive other types of insurance coverage from the state. As you can imagine, the estimated 2 million unemployed Americans who almost had no benefits this Christmas seems a particular horror show to Europeans, made worse by the fact that the U.S. government does not provide any medical insurance to American unemployment recipients. Europeans routinely recoil at that in disbelief and disgust.

    In another piece the Spiegel magazine steps away from statistics and tells the story of Pam Brown, who personifies what is coming to be known as the Nouveau American poor. Pam Brown was a former executive assistant on Wall Street, and her shocking decline has become part of the American story:

    American society is breaking apart. Millions of people have lost their jobs and fallen into poverty. Among them, for the first time, are many middle-class families. Meet Pam Brown from New York, whose life changed overnight. The crisis caught her unprepared. "It was horrible," Pam Brown remembers. "Overnight I found myself on the wrong side of the fence. It never occurred to me that something like this could happen to me. I got very depressed." Brown sits in a cheap diner on West 14th Street in Manhattan, stirring her $1.35 coffee. That's all she orders -- it's too late for breakfast and too early for lunch. She also needs to save money. Until early 2009, Brown worked as an executive assistant on Wall Street, earning more than $80,000 a year, living in a six-bedroom house with her three sons. Today, she's long-term unemployed and has to make do with a tiny one-bedroom in the Bronx.
    It's important to note that no country in the European Union uses food stamps in order to humiliate its disadvantaged citizens in the grocery checkout line. Even worse is the fact that even the humbling food stamp allotment may not provide enough food for America’s jobless families. So it is on a reoccurring basis that some of these families report eating out of garbage cans to the European media.

    For Pam Brown, last winter was the worst. One day she ran out of food completely and had to go through trash cans. She fell into a deep depression ... For many, like Brown, the downfall is a Kafkaesque odyssey, a humiliation hard to comprehend. Help is not in sight: their government and their society have abandoned them.

    Pam Brown and her children were disturbingly, indeed incomprehensibly, allowed to fall straight to the bottom. The richest country in the world becomes morally bankrupt when someone like Pam Brown and her children have to pick through trash to eat, abandoned with a callous disregard by the American government. People like Brown have found themselves dispossessed due to the robber baron actions of the Wall Street elite.

    Hunger in the Land of the Big Mac

    A shocking headline from a Swiss newspaper reads (Berner Zeitung) “Hunger in the Land of the Big Mac.” Though the article is in German, the pictures are worth 1,000 words and need no translation. Given the fact that the Swiss virtually eliminated hunger, how do we as Americans think they will view these pictures, to which the American population has apparently been desensitized.



    This appears to be a picture of two mothers collecting food boxes from the charity Feed the Children.

    Perhaps the only way for us to remember what we really look like in America is to see ourselves through the eyes of others. While it is true that we can all be proud Americans, surely we don't have to be proud of the broken American social safety net. Surely we can do better than that. Can a European-style social safety net rescue the American working and middle classes from GOP and Tea Party warfare?
    http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/149324

  • #2
    Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

    What part don't they get ....







    and their take on US armed service personnel on food stamps....

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

      Some of this is just sensationalism. The 2009 average Food stamp benefit in NY was about $142 person. With three sons, that works out to around $19 day for the family! My family of five eats on less most months. Sorry, I'm not buying the garbage can scenario. This is about poor budgeting and poor life choices, not low benefits. Americans don't know how to live cheaply. They buy pre-packaged foods and shop for convenience, not price. I know NY cost of living is higher, but hey, if you can't afford to live there, don't.

      For example, some neighbors called us Christmas night to inform us they forgot to bring in their two $1500 dogs from the cold, and would we feed them. Seems they were off to a fancy resort for a family weekend. The father is out of work and the house is being foreclosed on. This is the same weekend we gave them a cheap vacuum cleaner to use after weeks of being asked to borrow ours because they couldn't "afford" one. When they returned the kid informed us they had bought another pet. Sorry, but some people's idea of being poor is not the same as mine. Most Americans don't know the meaning of the word. The woman in the story laments of only being able to afford coffee. You can easily buy a can of soup for that much and actually get some nutritional value. Give me a break.

      There are a lot of economic problems in the US, but food ain't one of them. Not yet at least.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

        I should feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel sympathy for the poor who squandered their money on lattes, on granite counter-tops, on marble pillars for their McMansions, on Hummers, on Land-Rovers, on vacations to Maui, on gambling junkets to Las Vegas, on vacation homes at Lake Tahoe, on dot.com stocks, on solar-energy scams, on windmill dreams, on networking and late-night office parties, on creative finance, on trust-deeds, on negative-amortization mortgages, on credit cards for every store, on throwing-away pennies, on tossing beverage bottles out of their car-windows, on smoking, on pot, on fancy clothes, on toy-telephones, on i-pods and on i-pads and on i-books, on every i-imaginable, on booze, on drugs, on house-flipping, on stock-flipping, on derivative-flipping, on derivatives to cover bets to cover stocks purchased with margin-money, on and on, and on...........

        Thank you, but the Europeans have to understand what really went-on in America during the Greenspan and Bernanke years..... There are two-sides to this story.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

          Some social scientists think that making sure large-scale crime or fascism never takes root in Europe again requires a taxpayer investment in a strong social safety net. Can we learn from Europe?
          Yes, if only we could get some kind of movement like this going in the US - like a National Socialist American Worker's Party to further this agenda. Then we could be sure that fascism never takes root!

          ...She also needs to save money....Until early 2009, Brown worked as an executive assistant on Wall Street, earning more than $80,000 a year, living in a six-bedroom house with her three sons...
          She needed to save money when she had a job. Six-bedroom house? I split a 3 bedroom rental house 3 ways. I could buy a 6 bedroom house, but I don't because I realize I may lose my job or have some other misfortune.

          Do they no longer teach The Ant and the Grasshopper ? Instead their version is that the ants are "insane" for not working twice as hard to save enough for the grasshopper too.
          It's important to note that no country in the European Union uses food stamps in order to humiliate its disadvantaged citizens in the grocery checkout line.
          Yes, that's why we have food stamps, to humiliate people. It works so well too. I've worked as a cashier in a grocery store. I never recall anyone being humiliated to use food stamps. The stamps these days are a state issued debit card anyway.

          Maybe it's just me, but overall this article just does not match with the reality I see. Yes, there are homeless people who eat from the trash. But I'd bet that they are far more likely to be mentally ill than on food stamps. Are there no homeless people in Europe? Are there no poor people? Or hungry people? Is it a land flowing with milk and honey all thanks to their social safety net?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

            Consider the source.

            I'm trying to understand why someone whose avatar is the prototypical FIRE economy plutocrat hypocrite posts such stuff.
            Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

              Most Americans think that Germans and their idiotic socialism is insane, so we're even.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

                Originally posted by BuckarooBanzai View Post
                Most Americans think that Germans and their idiotic socialism is insane, so we're even.
                Most Americans are jingoistic idiots. What's your point?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

                  Originally posted by Munger View Post
                  Most Americans are jingoistic idiots. What's your point?
                  That most Germans are the cosseted products of a nanny state that wouldn't have existed without those silly "jingoistic" Americans protecting their formerly goose-stepping asses from engulfment by the USSR and subsidizing their welfare state?
                  Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

                    Ironically, Germany's better economy has nothing to do with socialism, but owes to capitalism creating a rich class with a taste for German branded goods and cars.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

                      Actually, I know more than a few Germans and they are well aware that the problem is we have a 100 million low-iq peasants who cannot function in a modern society that requires self discipline, foresight, and delayed gratification. Maybe you missed the Chancellor of Germany declaring multiculturalism and third world immigration is a complete and total disaster that costs the country a fortune?

                      This article is the same nonsense hardcore leftists have been saying for my entire life. You can read crap like this on Politico every day. And quoting Der Spiegal? The allied propaganda apparatus? Please.

                      PS: did you know China has no state healthcare system and that their people live even longer despite smoking like chimneys?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

                        Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                        Some of this is just sensationalism. The 2009 average Food stamp benefit in NY was about $142 person. With three sons, that works out to around $19 day for the family! My family of five eats on less most months. Sorry, I'm not buying the garbage can scenario. This is about poor budgeting and poor life choices, not low benefits. Americans don't know how to live cheaply. They buy pre-packaged foods and shop for convenience, not price. I know NY cost of living is higher, but hey, if you can't afford to live there, don't.

                        For example, some neighbors called us Christmas night to inform us they forgot to bring in their two $1500 dogs from the cold, and would we feed them. Seems they were off to a fancy resort for a family weekend. The father is out of work and the house is being foreclosed on. This is the same weekend we gave them a cheap vacuum cleaner to use after weeks of being asked to borrow ours because they couldn't "afford" one. When they returned the kid informed us they had bought another pet. Sorry, but some people's idea of being poor is not the same as mine. Most Americans don't know the meaning of the word. The woman in the story laments of only being able to afford coffee. You can easily buy a can of soup for that much and actually get some nutritional value. Give me a break.

                        There are a lot of economic problems in the US, but food ain't one of them. Not yet at least.
                        Actually, it's even worse than that. Because NYC is a major shipping destination, you can actually find a lot food - especially fresh food - cheaper than most of the country. Head down to Chinatown someday and you can see for yourself. $19 will easily get you enough food to feed ten people.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

                          Originally posted by touchring View Post
                          Ironically, Germany's better economy has nothing to do with socialism, but owes to capitalism creating a rich class with a taste for German branded goods and cars.
                          You don't think it has at least something to do with the fact that they're Germans and not Zulu?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

                            As a Dutchman living in Germany and after reading this post i think the big difference between the US and Europe amounts to the medical issue.
                            The US defends it's citicens from external (army/navy) and internal (police) foes, prevents them from going hungry (food card) but lets them fend for themselves when becoming ill.
                            Why is it that the US sees safety and food as a basic nescessity but not health care ?
                            Why has Obama such big problems delivering this basis need to the people.
                            Why not establish a basic state health care system for all (no luxuries, expensive treatments) and have people who want more insure themselves.
                            This would be to the US it's advantage as wages could fall since the redicilously high health insurance costs don't apply any more.
                            16% or 9 % of GNP for medical costs is a HUGE difference especially when you consider that the unemployed+uninsured in the US (+25%?) don't contribute to these costs.
                            I don't know, but what happens with the mentally disabled and the children in the US, don't they at least have free access to medicare ?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Why The Germans Think Americans Are Insane

                              Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                              Some of this is just sensationalism.
                              Maybe, but 40 million Americans on food stamps isn't at all, nor is our shrinking middle class and declining Gini Index. And how about those very high levels of un/underemployment, almost on par with what happened during the Great Depression? You know the tent cities that sprung up back in 2008 never went away right? They've only gotten bigger.

                              Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                              I should feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel sympathy for the poor who squandered their money
                              Not everyone was a big spender, many weren't. Even the ones who were big spenders shouldn't have gotten screwed like this, which is the whole point of the article that you've somehow missed. Leaving people to starve and/or suffer debilitating diseases and/or death just because they were unlucky or careless with their money is unreasonable and amoral. This of course doesn't mean that everyone should have a palace and eat steak for dinner every night, but we can do a whole lot better very easily for everyone.

                              Oh but wait, this is America and you're worth what you make or have and if you don't make or have anything then you must be scum right? FYGM and IBGYBG all the way right?

                              And you have also some how ended up blaming the victims in all this mess too boot, congrats I guess. Poorer countries than us have virtually eliminated starvation and poverty while still having plenty of rich people and a pretty good standard of living, nearly on par or higher than ours is and have far far fewer people in prisons. This is a good thing and we should strive to emulate that.

                              Originally posted by DSpencer View Post
                              Yes, if only we could get some kind of movement like this going in the US - like a National Socialist American Worker's Party to further this agenda. Then we could be sure that fascism never takes root!
                              You don't have to go whole hog and ditch capitalism entirely and embrace socialism/communism/etc. You just have to accept that for some things the gov. will do a better job than a private mega corp or 2 or 3 if for no other reason than one of national security since those corps. care only about wealth and not countries.

                              Originally posted by DSpencer View Post
                              She needed to save money when she had a job.

                              Do they no longer teach The Ant and the Grasshopper ?
                              It is virtually impossible for the average person to save money these days due to the low rates, ass backwards and fickle stock market, crappy or no pension/401K, and rising costs along with stagnating or falling wages. And that has been true for years before the bubble started to burst. Bear in mind that the lady in question has been out of work since early 2009 according to that article, which is going on nearly 2 years now. Even 20 or 30 years ago most people didn't have 2 years of savings just lying around. Of course back then it was almost unheard of to be out of work for that long too. Instead of blaming the victim you should be blaming the gov. and monied interests for allowing our society and economy to fall to such a state.

                              Originally posted by DSpencer View Post
                              Yes, that's why we have food stamps, to humiliate people. It works so well too. I've worked as a cashier in a grocery store. I never recall anyone being humiliated to use food stamps. The stamps these days are a state issued debit card anyway.
                              Many people are humiliated to be seen using them if they've never had to before. It may be silly and stupid to you but for another person that was once doing well it is quite depressing, another sign that they are poor and by our society's rules a "loser scumbag leech" now.

                              Originally posted by DSpencer View Post
                              But I'd bet that they are far more likely to be mentally ill than on food stamps.
                              By bet you mean a WAG don't you? But if we accept your WAG as true isn't that horrible? Shouldn't these "crazy" people who eat trash (apparently some of whom are also single moms with 3 kids who were formerly middle class BTW) be cared for in an asylum or something where they can get some decent food and a bed to sleep in? Because you do realize that even crazy people are people too right?

                              Originally posted by DSpencer View Post
                              Are there no homeless people in Europe? Are there no poor people? Or hungry people? Is it a land flowing with milk and honey all thanks to their social safety net?
                              Even if there were homeless/starving people in Europe how would that make it OK over here? Because someone else's gov/society/economy sucks its OK for ours to do so as well? Or even worse be only just a little bit better instead of the best we could be?
                              Last edited by mesyn191; December 28, 2010, 04:43 AM.

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