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  • Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

    Insurance rates weigh heavily on homeowners


    By Paige St. John


    Published: Sunday, December 26, 2010 at 1:00 a.m.
    Last Modified: Sunday, December 26, 2010 at 12:02 a.m.

    Even before recent rate increases, parts of Florida had become the most expensive places in the world to insure a home.

    And now, with the state still locked in an economic downturn, the burden is growing heavier.

    In Monroe County, Florida regulators have approved private insurance rates as high as $13,000 a year on a $150,000 house -- more than a standard mortgage.

    Premiums elsewhere on the coast, including in Sarasota County, have doubled and tripled in the last five years.

    "How much longer will I be able to afford to live here?" asked Scott Snyder, a Sarasota homeowner who since 2003 has bounced between four insurers, including one that failed, while his premium climbed from $1,350 to $2,644.

    The crisis is worse than you know.

    A Herald-Tribune analysis of quarterly policy data shows more homeowners have lost coverage in the past five years than after Hurricane Andrew, the biggest disaster in state history.

    Even with backup coverage available from the state, there are 200,000 fewer homes insured today by a regulated carrier than five years ago.

    Those remaining in the private market pay more for less coverage: Deductibles for hurricane damage have doubled or more for the vast majority of policyholders. Policy exclusions have expanded to include pool cages. Now carriers are rapidly dropping sinkhole coverage, requiring homeowners who want it to buy it back at a separate price.

    "People have accepted, sadly, the premiums they are now paying and are not yelling and screaming as they were in the past," said Sen. Mike Fasano, a New Port Richey Republican who opposes proposals to ease regulation of home insurance rates.

    "But that doesn't mean we don't have a crisis right now."

    The rate increases have been driven largely by changes in how property insurance works in Florida.

    As national carriers fled the state, Florida has encouraged the growth of small start-up companies that operate with little capital and rely largely on offshore reinsurers to carry their hurricane risks.

    The trade is expensive. To attract investors, reinsurers charge five to 10 times more than they expect to lose.

    The result is a dramatic increase in the amount of Florida premium shipped offshore, out of reach of regulators and policyholders.

    In its yearlong investigation, the Herald-Tribune found some Florida insurers continuing to pay more than 50 cents for $1 of offshore protection, a bill that comes due again each year.

    Florida insurance companies have little choice but to pay such rates because they do not have enough capital to survive a hurricane on their own.

    "The guys getting the money are not in Ormond Beach. They are in Bermuda and London," said Locke Burt, a former state senator and president of Security First Insurance.

    "We can't control reinsurance. We have to just pay it."

    http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...p=all&tc=pgall

  • #2
    Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

    I'm a Hurricane Andrew veteran. The aftermath re insurance rates was no small component in weighing my decision to ultimately leave Florida. And in the article above they talk about $13,000/year on a $150,000 house as though there were such a thing as a $150,000 house in that region.

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    • #3
      Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

      So, in an area highly susceptible to hurricanes, you think people have a right to low insurance rates?

      IIRC, people who live in coastal area have been getting subsidized rates for quite some time. Maybe if the rates reflected the risk, fewer people would live in areas subject to natural disasters?
      Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

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      • #4
        Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

        Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
        Maybe if the rates reflected the risk, fewer people would live in areas subject to natural disasters.
        Point well taken, but don't defend the "I" in FIRE. They're probably the worst when it comes to usuary. 13,000 per year for a 150,000 $ asset means you could bank the premium for 10 years and have enough to build a new house. That rate is just as absurd as 37 % interest on a credit card. My wife and I own a house on a river in Virginia. There's been increasing storm damage in the 20 years we've owned the house. The insurance policy gets substanially longer every year. I can longer read and understand the fine print. Yes, there is a well-documented insurance subsidy scandal in places like the Outer Banks (NC) which has encouraged developers to build beach mansions in hurricane alley, but the insurance companies have greatly reduced exposure to big losses and they are making record profits often by not paying out when they should, ala healthcare insurers fabricating pre-existing conditions.

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        • #5
          Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

          There is a reason they didn't used to build anything along the coast in hurricane prone areas!

          The idea of a house right on the beach is a relatively new concept. And even when they were built, they were usually cheap shacks that were considered disposable by the wealthy who owned them. I knew something was wrong when people in my income group were buying beach homes. Florida has gotten off relatively easy since the last round of hurricanes hit in 2005. Think what the rates would be if they'd had another Katrina type storm!

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          • #6
            Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

            I thought this was the key aspect to the story:

            As national carriers fled the state, Florida has encouraged the growth of small start-up companies that operate with little capital and rely largely on offshore reinsurers to carry their hurricane risks.

            The trade is expensive. To attract investors, reinsurers charge five to 10 times more than they expect to lose.

            The result is a dramatic increase in the amount of Florida premium shipped offshore, out of reach of regulators and policyholders.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

              Originally posted by don View Post
              I thought this was the key aspect to the story:

              As national carriers fled the state, Florida has encouraged the growth of small start-up companies that operate with little capital and rely largely on offshore reinsurers to carry their hurricane risks.

              The trade is expensive. To attract investors, reinsurers charge five to 10 times more than they expect to lose.

              The result is a dramatic increase in the amount of Florida premium shipped offshore, out of reach of regulators and policyholders.
              Perhaps the question to ask is: why have national carriers "fled" the state?
              Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

                Paying $13k to insure a $150k Monroe County house, per the article, doesn't sound right. Not that someone isn't paying it, but that someone found a house there for that. Realize too that given the relatively inaccessibility of the Keys, flood issues, high winds, etc., building costs there are likely higher than elsewhere in Florida. So it is not just risk but required rebuild quality that will effect rates.

                Realtor.com shows five houses asking under $175k in the Key West area. All of 25 around Key Largo and 28 midway in Marathon. So the cited example might be extreme. Certainly the article could have selected something more representative of Florida insurance costs. While it should be noted that insurance does cost more here, naturally, than in other states, such extreme costs should not be the final impression taken away about the cost of living here.

                http://www.homebuyinginstitute.com/a...homeowners.php shows that the national average in 2006 was $804 and www.insuranceagents.com/average-costs.html shows that in 2006, Florida averaged $1,386.

                Some of the hardest hit (premium-wise) areas are probably Monroe County (the Keys) and south Florida (Palm Beach, Broward & Miami-Dade counties), especially east of I-95. I relocated (in part to help control costs) from a high velocity hurricane zone (140 mph) not on but near the beach to a non-windborne debris region (120 mph) I decided to remain in Florida, in part, to control property taxes, as I had many years of "save our home" homesteaded savings which I was able to port to my new location, further reducing costs here.

                In doing so, I pay less to insure two houses in my new Florida location than my one home was costing, and the taxes I pay, and will pay into my future, are basically negligible.

                Though insurance rates were stable for a few years, Florida's Citizens is scheduled for a 10% hike in 2011.

                Here is the Florida Wind Zone Map. The higher the MPH, the more expensive the insurance...



                Savings can be realized by hurricane-hardening a residence. Here are some guidelines and expected savings:

                www.floridadisaster.org/mitdb/index.cfm

                Here is Florida's site for comparing insurance costs by company and county...

                http://www.shopandcomparerates.com/

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                • #9
                  Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

                  Good posting, hcs. Thanks.

                  Do you know how association insurance coverage figures into the mix?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

                    Not sure how representative this is. From a friend of mine.

                    My ex sister-in-law walked away from her house in Florida (Kendall district of Miami) because of three reasons:

                    1. The value of her house dropped by 50%
                    2. Her condo fees (which includes house insurance ) increased by 400%
                    3. The special assessment her condo association placed on all for the hurricane damage was too heavy a burden she couldn't afford.

                    So she walked away from her house; moved to Georgia and rents a basement apt from her sister (who sold her house in the keys and moved to rural Georgia).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

                      Originally posted by don View Post
                      Not sure how representative this is. From a friend of mine.

                      My ex sister-in-law walked away from her house in Florida (Kendall district of Miami) because of three reasons:

                      1. The value of her house dropped by 50%
                      2. Her condo fees (which includes house insurance ) increased by 400%
                      3. The special assessment her condo association placed on all for the hurricane damage was too heavy a burden she couldn't afford.

                      So she walked away from her house; moved to Georgia and rents a basement apt from her sister (who sold her house in the keys and moved to rural Georgia).
                      So, what's your interpretation of that narrative, Don? Did she lose her home to FIRE?
                      Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

                        If insurance premiums actually rise that high I'm assuming the pool of potential buyers shrinks even further?

                        If only cash buyers who are freehold can self-insure and avoid the extremely high insurance premiums, what happens to the property prices when the majority with mortgages can't afford to pay their insurance premiums?

                        Beachfront/oceanfront property in many places around the world has often accelerated in price dramatically compared to property even just a few blocks inland....I wonder if we will see the trend in reverse?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

                          Sorry about your xSIL, Don, but as most of us here lost about half of what we thought we had in real estate (can I at least have the tax money back on that?) and since condos are tanking more than single family, your xSIL got off relatively light. One of my old friends' condo is now valued 17% under her 2002 purchase price. Ouch! How do you walk away from the home you've been paying on for 8 years. This is horrible.

                          To your question, I'm not certain how insurance on condo's work currently. It used to be that association fees covered wind, other hazards and liability for the building itself and association property. Then the homeowner paid separately to insure the interior of individual units. But I seem to recall a realtor mention a few months back that a new Florida law requires each unit owner to have interior & exterior coverage. I know not if that is true, how that might work or what it costs.

                          How association insurance plays into the mix, I presume would be similar to the rest of the fees: for each unit owner who does not pay, costs probably increase for those who do. Early on in the crash, there was a building in a lower income area of town, I think in Deerfield Beach (Broward County) which probably (don't recall now but don't think it was a new build) had "gone condo". So hard working people bought in for not a lot of money but, yeah, they were probably stretched for their income. When real estate crashed, so many dumped their units that the remaining owners could not afford to pay the water bill for the complex. So to add insult to injury, the city condemned the building. I don't remember how that resolved but I remember how upset for them I was at the time.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

                            Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
                            So, what's your interpretation of that narrative, Don? Did she lose her home to FIRE?
                            Best guess interpretation:

                            1. She overbought due to the manufactured housing bubble, cheered on by co-conspirators in RE, appraisal, title and most of all, lending.

                            2. Her association dues went to the moon, Alice, due to vacancies, bank repos that didn't pay their dues and non-payer occupants that were not only deeply underwater but incapable of paying their monthly nut once variable interest rates joined the moon launch.

                            3. Future hurricane assessments were at least in part due to non-regulatory insurance startups that a) couldn't underwrite their own policies and b) turned to 50 cent on the dollar non-regulated offshore investors (Mafia? Saudis?) that could.

                            So I guess the smart ass answer is, she was a dumb bitch that had it coming.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Florida Home Lost to Hurricane? No, FIRE

                              Originally posted by don View Post
                              Best guess interpretation:

                              1. She overbought due to the manufactured housing bubble, cheered on by co-conspirators in RE, appraisal, title and most of all, lending.

                              2. Her association dues went to the moon, Alice, due to vacancies, bank repos that didn't pay their dues and non-payer occupants that were not only deeply underwater but incapable of paying their monthly nut once variable interest rates joined the moon launch.

                              3. Future hurricane assessments were at least in part due to non-regulatory insurance startups that a) couldn't underwrite their own policies and b) turned to 50 cent on the dollar non-regulated offshore investors (Mafia? Saudis?) that could.

                              So I guess the smart ass answer is, she was a dumb bitch that had it coming.
                              1. She overbought due to the manufactured housing bubble, cheered on by co-conspirators in RE, appraisal, title and most of all, lending.
                              Most of all The Federal Reserve, it seems to me, along with our federal government.

                              Why did traditional insurance companies abandon Florida, leaving the field to these small start-ups? Seems like that is the question to ask.

                              She was a dumb bitch that had it coming? That is as stupid a response as saying that she was little more than an innocent little particle, blown about by the evil winds of FIRE. Real life is seldom as binary as you seem to view it.
                              Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

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