Bombs going off in Stockholm

[c1ue]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

Before assuming the CIA is somehow involved, I think it might be worth having a look at Swedish immigration/refugee policies over the last couple of decades.

The open minded Swedish folks I know have expressed concern that their nation's efforts to be a good global citizen have risked opening themselves up to increased risk of local homegrown crime and terrorism.

This is half correct: it is unclear if the Swedish immigration policies are to blame so much as Sweden having troops in Afghanistan.

Sure, if Sweden were only Swede the risk is smaller. But Sweden allows immigration not just for its liberal policies, but also for the cheap labor and demographic bump represented by immigrating Muslims (as well as other religions).

It is quite unclear to me if the presence of Muslims itself opens a nation up to terrorism as opposed to Predator drones bombing village weddings.

[Shakespear]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

So why no bombs in other coalition nations? I have no idea, but it strikes me as being very strange that Sweden is a target.

http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/201...n-afghanistan/

Most Swedes I know are cool people :-)

Does anyone recall the "mini sub" zebras that were off the coast of Sweden in the Cold War days? Well then the finger was pointed at Soviet Union.

http://aquilinefocus.blogspot.com/20...from-past.html

[c1ue]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

So why no bombs in other coalition nations? I have no idea, but it strikes me as being very strange that Sweden is a target.

As I recall, the UK and Spain both had very serious attacks.

Have all of the coalition members suffered terrorist attacks?

Not yet.

But when you piss off a lot of people - like a flood they search around for weak spots to gain revenge.

[Andreuccio]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

In addition to P2, this article gives a some examples of false flag operations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag. I found the "Pretexts for War" and "Terrorism" sections particularly germaine. The Gulf of Tonkin incident is another fine example of things not being as reported to us.

My POV is when incidents like this happen and they tell me I'm seeing horses, I think they might very well be horses, as described, but I can't discount the possibility that they could just as easily be zebras. It could even be horses interspersed with Zebras, for all I know.

It's always useful to ask yourself "Cui bono?"

[Master Shake]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

In addition to P2, this article gives a some examples of false flag operations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag. I found the "Pretexts for War" and "Terrorism" sections particularly germaine. The Gulf of Tonkin incident is another fine example of things not being as reported to us.

My POV is when incidents like this happen and they tell me I'm seeing horses, I think they might very well be horses, as described, but I can't discount the possibility that they could just as easily be zebras. It could even be horses interspersed with Zebras, for all I know.

It's always useful to ask yourself "Cui bono?"

And it's always useful to remember that sometimes (most times) a cigar is just a cigar.

[Chomsky]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

Hmmmm.... timing seems a little too sweet to be believed. From what I've read the CIA is threatening to cut Sweden Secret Services out of the loop on security issues if they don't help to target Assange. Seems a no-brainer to underline to the Swedish people that they are vulnerable (to whom is a different issue.)

For anyone who doubts the plausibility of this I suggest a close read of the history of the P2 Lodge during the 70s in Italy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due

Got a link to a credible source on that? I'd love to read it.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

And it's always useful to remember that sometimes (most times) a cigar is just a cigar.

Except when it's your practical joker (but not too clever) brother-in-law, and he's given you an exploding cigar for your Christmas gift the last nine years straight ...

[Starving Steve]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

As I recall, the UK and Spain both had very serious attacks.

Have all of the coalition members suffered terrorist attacks?

Not yet.

But when you piss off a lot of people - like a flood they search around for weak spots to gain revenge.

Predators search around for weak spots to eat you alive. Same thing with germs.

The Stockholm bomber was from the UK. So I ask the politically-incorrect question: Why did the UK welcome these immigrants in? Another politically-incorrect question: Why did Scotland release the Lockarbie-bomber to Libya? Another politically-incorrect question: Why did Scotland not notify the U.S. of its intention to release the Lockarbie-bomber, because the Lockarbie-bomber blew-up a U.S. flag-ship airliner? And another politically-incorrect question: Why is the BBC World Television so pro-Iran---- so much so that one protestor before being executed in Tehran (this past June) held up a sign saying that the BBC was pro-regime in Iran?

I see a pattern here.... Anyone dare to verbalise what the pattern is?

Yes, Michael Savage is a hate-monger, but he has been banned from even visiting the UK.... Why would that be? Yes, the spreading of hate should not be tolerated, but why did the UK allow the Stockholm-bomber to settle in the UK? (Certain hate is obviously tolerated while other hate is not tolerated, and that fact is interesting to observe.)

[oddlots]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

Here's the claim:

"But the moment Julian sought the protection of Swedish media law, the CIA immediately threatened to discontinue intelligence sharing with SEPO, the Swedish Secret Service."

http://www.counterpunch.org/shamir09142010.html

[c1ue]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

Predators search around for weak spots to eat you alive. Same thing with germs.

funny you should use that term.

I'd argue the vast majority of Afghans and Pakistanis could give a rat's patootie about America, or anything beyond the next village - at least until buzzing 15 foot drones started dropping 2000 pound missiles and killing women and children.

And for all your holier than thou ranting - the behavior of the radical Muslim is no different than the behavior of the Catholics during the Inquisition. Of both Catholic and Protestant in the Wars of the Reformation. The list goes on and on.

The difference is a function of both time and money - the regimes creating these large numbers of disaffected Muslim youths are for the most part supported by the US military against enemies both internal and external.

So which is the chicken and which is the egg?

[Starving Steve]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

During the 16th C, there was a Reformation within the Catholic Church. During the 18th C, George Washington insisted upon keeping God off of the coins, yet to create a nation tolerant of all faiths. The founders of America insisted upon keeping religion and government, seperate and far-apart.

But in the Islamic World, what has happened since Islam was founded in the 7th C? Was there ever a Galeleo personage or a Martin Luther personage leading a reform within Islam? Did anyone ever stand-up to religious authority in the Islamic World and say, "Enough is enough,"?

[Master Shake]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

funny you should use that term.

I'd argue the vast majority of Afghans and Pakistanis could give a rat's patootie about America, or anything beyond the next village - at least until buzzing 15 foot drones started dropping 2000 pound missiles and killing women and children.

And for all your holier than thou ranting - the behavior of the radical Muslim is no different than the behavior of the Catholics during the Inquisition. Of both Catholic and Protestant in the Wars of the Reformation. The list goes on and on.

What's different besides the barrier of several centuries? Well, when Christians behave badly and persecute and kill others who don't share their views, they are acting against the teachings of their founder. When radical Muslims do it, they are following the teachings of their founder. An important distinction, imo.

[c1ue]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

During the 16th C, there was a Reformation within the Catholic Church. During the 18th C, George Washington insisted upon keeping God off of the coins, yet to create a nation tolerant of all faiths. The founders of America insisted upon keeping religion and government, seperate and far-apart.

And yet we are now heading back towards Christianity as part of US government. Witness compassionate conservatism and the rise of the Christian Right as a political power.

But in the Islamic World, what has happened since Islam was founded in the 7th C? Was there ever a Galeleo personage or a Martin Luther personage leading a reform within Islam? Did anyone ever stand-up to religious authority in the Islamic World and say, "Enough is enough,"?

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. Being rich is right? Being more technologically advanced confers being right?

What has happened in Canada since its founding as a nation?

What about Africa? They're neither technologically advanced nor are they terrorists.

Please clarify what you are attempting to say.

What's different besides the barrier of several centuries? Well, when Christians behave badly and persecute and kill others who don't share their views, they are acting against the teachings of their founder. When radical Muslims do it, they are following the teachings of their founder. An important distinction, imo.

IMO, you should study the Koran before you make such statements.

Because the Bible also has its equivalent.

In any large document, justification can be found to do anything.

The radical Muslims focus on the attacking the infidel, but the Koran also speaks about 'People of the Book' - those of different religions which are based on written texts are to be treated differently that true pagans/infidels: (from wiki)

• And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. ^{[Qur'an 29:46]}

• Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115)

• And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. '(3:199)'

• Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . ^{[Qur'an 2:62]}

• Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. ^{[Qur'an 3:64]}

Jews and Christians are explicitly People of the Book.

[Shakespear]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit.

Looks like you know the Bible well c1ue. That passage makes so much sense, but I suspect not much is said about it from the pulpit.

[oddlots]

Re: Bombs going off in Stockholm

Not to mention the fact that there have been Jewish communities existing in a sea of muslims for centuries, unmolested. Contrast the centuries of pogroms and really vile persecutions in the West and I think you have to re-visit the notion of Islam as a religion of war and conflict and Christianity as the abused bringer of peace. It just doesn't hold up at all.